Author Topic: Help! Spark plug stuck!!  (Read 2181 times)

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Offline The Lone Builder

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Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« on: September 16, 2024, 12:17:22 PM »
Started out this morning. Bike fired up instantly. Ran perfectly for 30km or so, then bogged down a bit pulling away from traffic lights

Ran well again, but idle increased. Then bogged again and started backfiring. It wasn’t pulling at all and sounded like it was only on 3 cylinders.

Baffled as to cause, I thought maybe a plug had failed (?). While taking them out I noticed some oil burning on 2 & 3 down pipes - more so on No2.
The oil appears to be coming from the area around the centre oil gallery plug. Clean around oil filter housing and barrel/crankcase gasket is dry.

Anyway back to plug. When taking out No3 plug I couldn’t retrieve it after unscrewing. Now it is stuck in there, lying horizontal with the electrode pointing backwards. I took the tank off, but all efforts to get it out have failed.
Is this a first?
 Any suggestions as to how to get it out or what might be causing the bogging problem much appreciated.
I’m currently in a motel car park in Kewlona, BC.
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Offline The Lone Builder

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2024, 12:19:10 PM »
Photo to go with above.
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Offline calj737

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2024, 12:26:43 PM »
Long needle nosed pliers should grab it.
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Offline CycleRanger

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2024, 12:32:56 PM »
You might be able to use a piece of rubber hose on to it and wrangle it out.
Like so.
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Offline Mr. Mike

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2024, 12:34:00 PM »
Well that’s a bummer!

Long nosed straight or angled needle pliers? Or-
 One of those magnetic extendable nut/bolt retrievers?

First things first. Be sure to block the plug hole before attempting to remove that plug, and blow the hole out before removing the cloth plug or whatever you use to block it. Then try to remove it.
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Offline BenelliSEI

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2024, 12:45:31 PM »
Small, needle nose vice grips?

Offline The Lone Builder

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2024, 12:46:03 PM »
Have tried with the pliers I have, and with magnet.
It seems to be caught at back and there is not enough room to turn it around.
Even with the tank off, access is difficult.
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Offline The Lone Builder

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2024, 01:06:15 PM »
SUCCESS!!  :D

It only took 3 hours, but it’s out. I was wiggling the plug around with the magnet  and suddenly it poked its little nose out of the tunnel and I was able to grab it with some pliers. WhooHoo!

Now the bogging. Change of plugs? Any other causes likely?
Plugs 1 —> 4; L —> R
CB750 K2 - From Belfast-2-Belfast
CB750 K1 - The less, said the better!
CB450 K1 - Stalled.
CB400F Supersport - Not Rusty any more!

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Offline denward17

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2024, 01:13:11 PM »
State of air filter?

Offline The Lone Builder

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2024, 01:16:38 PM »
Clean. NGK.
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Offline Mr. Mike

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2024, 01:19:15 PM »
#2 plug looks wet at the bottom side of the crush washer, but the photos a tad fuzzy.
But since you have them out, if you’ve got new, gap ‘em and replace.
Clean it up and see what comes of it.
2002 Electra Glide
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Offline The Lone Builder

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2024, 01:23:23 PM »
You are right. No 3 looks similar while 1 & 4 are clean and dry.

Replacing them as we speak.
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Offline The Lone Builder

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2024, 02:16:33 PM »
Running smoothly now. Will get on the road and see what happens.

This all happened just (2km) after I got a new speedo. You think it might be related?  :D
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CB750 K1 - The less, said the better!
CB450 K1 - Stalled.
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Offline The Lone Builder

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2024, 03:31:38 PM »
Engine now racing ++. Much oil on side at head gasket level.

Will try to return to base now. Problem evidently more serious than might be desired.
CB750 K2 - From Belfast-2-Belfast
CB750 K1 - The less, said the better!
CB450 K1 - Stalled.
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Offline The Lone Builder

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2024, 05:39:40 PM »
So with the engine racing had no choice but to pull over. I let it cool down and then reset the air screws to one turn out and reset the idle screw. Once it I started again and everything went perfectly for about 25 km with the bike running very nicely, responding instantly to the throttle idling nicely. Then, suddenly it started missing again, lost power and started missing again started backfiring. So now I’ve stopped again and will wait for it to cool down. hopefully I’ll be able to make the remaining 40 km back home.

Thoughts, anyone?
CB750 K2 - From Belfast-2-Belfast
CB750 K1 - The less, said the better!
CB450 K1 - Stalled.
CB400F Supersport - Not Rusty any more!

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Offline newday777

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2024, 06:42:44 PM »
1st thought,  headgasket leak. You said you had oil dripping down and there was oil on the spark plugs. Now with the racing rpms, and changing running conditions as it heats up. Do a compression check and maybe a leak down test, cold and again after it warms up.
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1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
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Offline newday777

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2024, 06:44:18 PM »
Do you see oil in the fins around the 2/3 plugs?
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline scottly

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2024, 07:24:45 PM »
SUCCESS!!  :D

It only took 3 hours, but it’s out. I was wiggling the plug around with the magnet  and suddenly it poked its little nose out of the tunnel and I was able to grab it with some pliers. WhooHoo!

Now the bogging. Change of plugs? Any other causes likely?
Plugs 1 —> 4; L —> R
The plugs look lean. I suspect a fuel delivery problem. Again. ;)
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2024, 08:39:21 PM »
Umm...you removed the fuel tank and Scottly mentions what I also see: it looks lean on the plugs. This could be caused by low float bowl levels of fuel. Could there be an issue with the way the fuel lines are routed? Maybe down & then back up before getting to carbs, or...?

In the 750s with the 657b series carbs and 2 fuel lines from the petcock to the carbs, it is easier to route the lines INcorrectly than correctly, with the lines going up & over something enroute to the fuel tee(s) that feed 2 carbs. Honda supplied 2 holes in the carb mounting bracket that are a guide: the more-forward petcock hose should go thru the upper one of these holes and then across to the carbs on the far side, without rising high and then back down (i.e., more horizontally). HOWEVER: with ethanol-laced fuels, a hot day of riding, and incorrectly routed lines, the fuel might not reach the far 2 carbs once in a while because of float bowl pressures from heated ethanol vapors pushing against the horizontally-routed fuel line. Here in Colorado (higher elevation than most places) this becomes an issue during steady-speed traffic, with the float bowls on the far 2 carbs running lower than on the 2 nearer carbs. It tends to 'straighten up' after pulling over (or hitting an offramp for a turn), only to return again when running at steady speeds.

One 'cure' I've used in this situation re-routed the 'far' fuel line out in front of the carbs to the 'far' side instead of thru the upper bracket hole and across behind the carbs. This reduces the length of hose a bit and tends to balance the fuel pressures in the 2 petcock spigots by a little more bit since it reduces the volume of fuel in the longer hose slightly. It doesn't take much to slow the flow, so it also doesn't take much then to restart it, either. NOTE: this method DOES NOT WORK in bikes equipped with fairings than wrap around or below the engine - like Vetter Lowers or the Vetter Phantom fairings, or roadrace fairings in slow city traffic. I have also heard (but not personally experienced) that it happens on 750s with the rolled-up sleeping bag tied across the front forks - which greatly increases engine heating, but looked cool in the movies...

The idea behind having the 2-fuel-line petcocks was to have 2 different fluid head pressures so they can 'pump' each other when the carbs on one hose open their needle valves: this drops the pressure on that line and makes the other line 'suck' a bit, helping to seal closed those other carb's fuel valves. Then when these carbs fill up and their valves close, their vacuum goes away and the other side gets the fuel. Meanwhile, the first side was lowering its fuel levels, so it trades back-and-forth like that, all the time. Trouble appears if one of the fuel lines is bent/crimped a little bit: then the switching back-and-forth becomes very sensitive to the heating of the lines because the crimp acts like a restrictor valve, unbalancing the timing and favoring the opposite carbs' flow...
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Offline The Lone Builder

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2024, 10:19:09 PM »
Bike now parked (securely) for the night in a garbage collector’s yard! Seriously!

The new plugs, when I removed them also looked lean.

The hoses are routed as described by Hondaman, but I think they are still a bit long and indeed they do go down and up. The right hand hose was also sitting right against the rear of the barrels, which could have vaporised the fuel?

I’ll fix that tomorrow, but the question is, should I now go back and move the clip down to the 4th needle slot to try to riches the mix?

The oil leak is no worse than before, and there is no power loss when the bike is running well so that would rule out a serious gasket leak, no?

I think an overhaul is due and probably advisable before I head to NZ and Australia. However, I’d rather wait for this till I get further south, to avoid winter weather and get this leg finished.

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CB450 K1 - Stalled.
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Offline Don R

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2024, 10:27:14 PM »
 I have a 3/8" piece of stout fuel hose that has a barbed tee in one end. That's my spark plug starter and remover. The socket only finish tightens and breaks them loose.
 If the threads cross while installing them, I can't apply enough torque to hurt anything, it slips on either end, the plug or the tee.
  I have to say, Marks explanation of how the twin fuel line setup works really clears up a few things and makes me want to put on a set of 4 clear tube float bowls and watch them as the engine is running. 
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Offline scottly

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2024, 10:51:34 PM »
Have you checked the flow from the tank, through the carb drains again yet? Didn't you mention issues with the petcock, and a replacement?
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Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2024, 05:21:17 AM »
How new are your carb intake boots? A split on a boot can cause lean running and shifting of the carb rack could cause it to vary enough... Clamps tightened too tight can cut into carb boots too ...

Some carb spray while running might help tell if you have a leak in the intake track...change in idle will point to a leaky area...

I know this is a out there stab but it is a different stab at the problem than other suggestions...
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2024, 05:50:41 AM »
Does your petcock have an in-tank fuel filter like mine? Sediment blocking that? Sediment in other places of the petcock? Check the fuel flow from the petcock in regular mode and reserve mode? Check fuel flow at the ends of your fuel lines to the carbs also?

Air vent in cap blocked? Loosen the cap while you are riding a short distance and see what effect that has?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2024, 05:52:39 AM by Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er »
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Offline The Lone Builder

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Re: Help! Spark plug stuck!!
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2024, 06:40:35 AM »
The problem last time was a kinked hose. I replaced the petcock which has no integral filter. Flow from it is good.

Carb boots are maybe 4/5 years old - Max 6 as today is the 6th anniversary of the first ride out after I rebuilt the bike back in Zimbabwe. I’ll check for leaks all the same.

As I mentioned above it could well be the routing of the hoses; the right had one went quite deep before going back through the mounting bracket.
CB750 K2 - From Belfast-2-Belfast
CB750 K1 - The less, said the better!
CB450 K1 - Stalled.
CB400F Supersport - Not Rusty any more!

Follow my journey through Africa @ http://Belfast2BelfastByBike.com