Topic: Mach III 500

[Don R]

 My old street rod club buddy inherited his dads old one owner Kawasaki Mach III with just over 1200 miles on it. The tank was perfect inside, he added a battery, got the carbs cleaned and it starts perfectly but the clutch is stuck. He tried tying the lever back and a few heat cycles, bumping it in 5th gear with the lever held back etc, any other ideas to free it before he has to take it apart?
 This little ripper looks new. Dang.

[Kelly E]

I would have taken it apart sooner but even if he gets it freed up the clutch in my experience won't last long. The last two bikes with stuck clutches only lasted a 1000 miles or less after it was free.

[Don R]

 Thanks Kelly, I offered to go over and help and take my former Kawi mechanic brother. He won't turn a wrench but he will direct me to.

[Oddjob]

Any chance he can get a flat headed screwdriver between the plates through the dipstick hole?

[Trevor from Warragul]

The kawasaki triples are notorious for the clutch plates sticking together after a long layup. Mine did it after 10 years sitting with a blown crank. My solution was to bump start it in gear then go for a longish ride around the neighborhood - once the gearbox oil got nice and hot the clutch freed up, and it's still going strong 20 years later!

[Leino]

[MauiK3]

Whatever that is, it looks dangerous!

[Leino]

Whatever that is, it looks dangerous!

JL Meccanica VDR, two H1 engines.

[HondaMan]

The kawasaki triples are notorious for the clutch plates sticking together after a long layup. Mine did it after 10 years sitting with a blown crank. My solution was to bump start it in gear then go for a longish ride around the neighborhood - once the gearbox oil got nice and hot the clutch freed up, and it's still going strong 20 years later!

There's several of the Kawi triples out there (the later ones with points) that are running the Triple Transistor Ignition: one is in AUS, one in Europe (Germany, IIRC), another in the Dubai area, one in South Africa and one in Thailand. Is yours one of the points versions? I don't remember when the electronic box disappeared from those bikes.

[Tim2005]

I think he's probably going to have to strip it. He could try running it for a while til it is hot, also some fresh thin oil  (/ATF) might help. Also it is worth checking the release mechanism isn't stuck and is adjusted ok, it is a worm screw with a central pushrod adjuster, found under the sprocket cover.

Hondaman, there were a few variations of ignitions, depending on model year and country. I picked up an unfinished project 1970 H1 last year and it has the early type of CDI ignition, it is a strange thing with one coil and a distributor, surface discharge plugs, 2 ignition boxes and a hall sender that is triggered 3 times every crank revolution. When all is working correctly the wire between the 2 boxes is carrying 400 volts. It does actually work very well now I have replaced one of the boxes that was faulty, though I did look into a conversion that was common years ago using a Chevy HEI ignition unit, I got it running on that but couldn't get it to rev cleanly, then I managed to find a replacement for the faulty box & haven't investigated the HEI idea further yet.

[HondaMan]

I think he's probably going to have to strip it. He could try running it for a while til it is hot, also some fresh thin oil  (/ATF) might help. Also it is worth checking the release mechanism isn't stuck and is adjusted ok, it is a worm screw with a central pushrod adjuster, found under the sprocket cover.

Hondaman, there were a few variations of ignitions, depending on model year and country. I picked up an unfinished project 1970 H1 last year and it has the early type of CDI ignition, it is a strange thing with one coil and a distributor, surface discharge plugs, 2 ignition boxes and a hall sender that is triggered 3 times every crank revolution. When all is working correctly the wire between the 2 boxes is carrying 400 volts. It does actually work very well now I have replaced one of the boxes that was faulty, though I did look into a conversion that was common years ago using a Chevy HEI ignition unit, I got it running on that but couldn't get it to rev cleanly, then I managed to find a replacement for the faulty box & haven't investigated the HEI idea further yet.

I was trying to help someone (by remote) to forestall the frequent failures of the magic early boxes, but he gave up after a while and I haven't heard from him in a long time. We both surmised that the #1 failure cause of the early boxes was their need for cooling in ways that couldn't easily be accommodated on the bike. Others have had differing ideas, but we never got to finalize the research. I think he just ran out of money?

The surface-discharge plug versions were the real short-lived ones I remember: in those first 2 years of the bikes I knew one rider who had 3 new ones under warranty and 2 more before I left the area a year later. The oscillator for the CDI was running at full current and heat all the time, so when riding around in town it got real hot. This seemed to be one of the major culprits. By 1972 Kawi changed over to points and condensors like most bike, and a bunch of those ended up with my box attached to preserve those hard-to-get parts.

[Stev-o]

The kawasaki triples are notorious for the clutch plates sticking together after a long layup. Mine did it after 10 years sitting with a blown crank. My solution was to bump start it in gear then go for a longish ride around the neighborhood - once the gearbox oil got nice and hot the clutch freed up, and it's still going strong 20 years later!

There's several of the Kawi triples out there (the later ones with points) that are running the Triple Transistor Ignition: one is in AUS, one in Europe (Germany, IIRC), another in the Dubai area, one in South Africa and one in Thailand. Is yours one of the points versions? I don't remember when the electronic box disappeared from those bikes.

Hey HM...I believe '72 was the only year the H1 came with points from the factory. 

Don - what year is it? The early models have become very valuable.

I love my '74....

[Oddjob]

I have a mate who has frame number 7

[grcamna2]

Don,I hope you fix it and take it for a 'spirited' ride 

[Don R]

Any chance he can get a flat headed screwdriver between the plates through the dipstick hole?

I don't know, but I told him that it worked on my kz1000. I thought he said it is a 68 but it must have been 69.

[Stev-o]

Any chance he can get a flat headed screwdriver between the plates through the dipstick hole?

I thought he said it is a 68 but it must have been 69.

Yes, '69 is the first year.

[BenelliSEI]

Don…. the Sandcast project bike had the same stuck clutch. It took a few hours, but I eventually had to pull the plates. They easily popped apart using a thin scrapper. Cleaned them all and sanded off the rust on the metal plates. Put it all back together and it works perfectly…..

[Trevor from Warragul]

There's several of the Kawi triples out there (the later ones with points) that are running the Triple Transistor Ignition: one is in AUS, one in Europe (Germany, IIRC), another in the Dubai area, one in South Africa and one in Thailand. Is yours one of the points versions? I don't remember when the electronic box disappeared from those bikes.

My 1971 H1A is Australian delivered and came standard with points. It has the very 1st Hondaman Triple Transistor Ignition. The only issue I've ever had was a failed condenser. The system delivers a nice fat spark. Points have absolutely no wear.

[grcamna2]

There's several of the Kawi triples out there (the later ones with points) that are running the Triple Transistor Ignition: one is in AUS, one in Europe (Germany, IIRC), another in the Dubai area, one in South Africa and one in Thailand. Is yours one of the points versions? I don't remember when the electronic box disappeared from those bikes.

My 1971 H1A is Australian delivered and came standard with points. It has the very 1st Hondaman Triple Transistor Ignition. The only issue I've ever had was a failed condenser. The system delivers a nice fat spark. Points have absolutely no wear.

Do you run the 3) OEM condensers ?

[Tim2005]

Here's my one, out for a 50 mile ride today. I bought it a year or so ago as an unfinished project, it's pretty much sorted now & rides well. Its odd CDI is entirely original, that's quite important for these as buyers are very keen on originality and correctness. I can't see myself keeping it for long anyway as I don't particularly rate the riding experience and I've a lot of money tied up in it which could be used for bikes I'd get more enjoyment from. This one is a bit too original and standard for me, I think I'd be better off with a scruffier later one that I could fit decent twin discs to, alloy rims, some nice pipes & big carbs etc.

One other observation- I have a 400F with a Yoshi 460 conversion, head-work, cam, big carbs etc etc. That has quite peaky power, around 50 rwhp, and actually rides pretty similarly to the H1 - similar acceleration, similar weight, but it has decent ground clearance, decent handling, and decent stopping from its twin discs up front (and decent mpg too), hence the H1 is usually left at home...

[Trevor from Warragul]

Do you run the 3) OEM condensers ?

Yes. Apparently they are not necessary, but I run them anyhow. The weirdest thing about Mark's unit is seeing absolutely no sparks from the points.

[HondaMan]

Here's my one, out for a 50 mile ride today. I bought it a year or so ago as an unfinished project, it's pretty much sorted now & rides well. Its odd CDI is entirely original, that's quite important for these as buyers are very keen on originality and correctness. I can't see myself keeping it for long anyway as I don't particularly rate the riding experience and I've a lot of money tied up in it which could be used for bikes I'd get more enjoyment from. This one is a bit too original and standard for me, I think I'd be better off with a scruffier later one that I could fit decent twin discs to, alloy rims, some nice pipes & big carbs etc.

One other observation- I have a 400F with a Yoshi 460 conversion, head-work, cam, big carbs etc etc. That has quite peaky power, around 50 rwhp, and actually rides pretty similarly to the H1 - similar acceleration, similar weight, but it has decent ground clearance, decent handling, and decent stopping from its twin discs up front (and decent mpg too), hence the H1 is usually left at home...

Is that magic box a repairable gizmo? If so, maybe I'll start a new sideline fixing up the cooked ones - with a bigger cooling system?
Electronics Engineering was my first trade...

[Oddjob]

Quick question Mark regarding your charging the condensers up. IF you're using your Hondaman system with the standard points etc do the condensers deteriorate or are they charged up but never discharged etc. Just thinking that in the event of a failure of your system and you need to revert to the standard setup would the condensers work or would they have gone to such a state they couldn't work.

[Terry in Australia]

I must put my ‘69 together, the engine was professionally rebuilt by an expert in Sydney and Trevor very generously gave me a complete OEM exhaust for it. I have another couple of MACH III’s in pieces but I think I’ll sell them once the ‘69 is finished. Found an almost new OEM seat for it that came off a bike very early in its life when he took his bike racing, so just need to get some new rims laced to the vapour blasted hubs, pick up my vapour blasted carbs etc, and bolt it together. So many bikes, and not enough time….

[seanbarney41]

Well Holy Jesus Terry, priorities man!  What the hell are ya doing mucking about with that horrible 4 stroke 750 twin when you got 500 2 stroke triples!?

....I know, I find those Kaw 750 twins mysteriously charming too and they seem sturdier than a faithful old farm tractor.