Author Topic: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??  (Read 3682 times)

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Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2024, 10:53:54 PM »
Right now I'm just waiting for the upgraded slave cylinder i ordered before i get deeper into this conversion. Its on the way from China. Its doubtful the unit that came with the kit will have enough pull strength to overcome heavier clutch springs.

Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2024, 04:23:38 PM »
The larger bore slave cylinder arrived today. I may try to sort this thing out on an old bottom end and put the master cylinder on a handlebar, juice it up and see how it pulls. The true test will be on an actual bike. I wish i had a running streetbike to test it in a stop and go situation.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2024, 07:59:33 PM by dragracer »

Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2024, 08:07:17 PM »
The 19mm bore housing  is definitely a noticeably larger outside diameter. I'm going to see if it'll still fit under the bottom end of the cases. Fingers crossed.

Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2024, 09:47:51 PM »
The larger cylinder just does fit under the cases. Fortunately Honda molded a cavity in that location for the cable to pass through.  This bigger cylinder fits snugly in that area. Two drawbacks  I see are: 1) the cylinder is in contact with the lower case which could cause some heat transfer. How much i don't know and if it would eventually affect operation given the hydraulic fluid within the unit or  the longevity of the rubber on the piston. 2) Installation of the cover is more difficult as it must be rotated on one dowel pin to place the slave iinto the case recess and then clocked back to align the bolt holes. In my situation,  I'll probably remove all of the locating dowel pins so this becomes a non-issue. This is a dragbike so the cover riding on the shoulder of the cover bolts is not a deal breaker for me. This cover isn't stressed in a manner whereby a lack of locating pins will adversely affect clutch operation. The slave cylinder itself pulls against the cover, nothing else.

The only other thing that could be a problem is the hydraulic line routing at the cylinder which is near the exhaust. As the picture shows, the fitting must be tilted at a 30- 45 degree angle given the odd shape of the cylinder in this area. I really don't think it'll be to much to worry about on my bikes with the sidewinder but  a bike with a stock exhaust could have the pipe closer.

 Since we don't have the luxury of grinding material from either this slave cylinder or the cases, any of my above listed observances need to be taken into account as i move forward.  Honestly,  any or all of these items will likely become mute points. The only simple solution to eliminating all of those concerns is to try using the smaller bore slave cylinder as it leaves just enough clearance away from the cases and allows the hose fitting to be angled in more ways. I prefer to give this larger cylinder a shot and will remove both dowel pins.

I'm moreso encouraged now to give this clutch setup additional time and effort.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2024, 10:02:17 PM by dragracer »

Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2024, 09:59:40 PM »
The recessed area is just large enough to fit the diameter of this 19mm bore slave cylinder.

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2024, 10:06:29 PM »
If the cylinder was installed with the cover already on the bike, removing the dowel pins or clocking the cover isn't a problem at all.

Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2024, 10:12:37 PM »
This shows the differences in the outside diameter of the cylinders.  Its the shape at the hose fitting on the larger cylinder that creates potential clocking issues for the hose if the exhaust pipe passes close by.

FYI : The diameter of the red cylinder isn't clear due to glare in the picture.  The number is 1.07 versus .083 for the small cylinder.  I didn't realize it wasn't easy to see until i posted here.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2024, 10:15:25 PM by dragracer »

Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2024, 10:32:45 PM »
Final post for now. I don't want to be one of those fellas who tend   to make what should be a short topic into a novel.  :-\

As you may be able to make out in this picture,  the reservoirs i bought are blue tinted. After i hit the buy button,  i realized they offered different colors. In hindsight I should have gotten red to at least match tge dang bike color. Oh well,  if this works as good as I hope, I'll go back and order red to replace these since the kit wasn't that expensive. And as i give the principle of hydraulics more thought, these master cylinders were designed at a pressure rating to match the bore size of the smaller slave cylinder.  Therefore,  the movement of the piston on the slave cylinder could be restricted in overcoming the pull of the lever on the clutch cover against the poundage rating of the heavy  springs🤔🫣😬😵. Doggone it. Something else to ponder as i move forward. Do  I see another type master cylinder kit coming my way??

Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2024, 10:35:41 PM »
DISCLAIMER STATEMENT

This entire thread contains the random thoughts of a mad, raving lunatic.  Follow along if you dare because I don't have a freakin clue where this is going to end up. My advice to you is to get out now to save your sanity.🤪😝😜 I will not be held responsible for your psychiatric treatment.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2024, 10:40:55 PM by dragracer »

Offline dusterdude

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2024, 12:42:28 AM »
Im in for the duration,wheeeeeee

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Offline simon#42

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2024, 10:44:37 AM »
you seem to have added weight and complexity to the bike , never a good thing for a racing bike .
if the only advantage is going to be a lighter clutch you could achieve the same result by altering the lever pivot point . this said i know nothing about drag racing so feel free to ignore me!

Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2024, 11:03:50 AM »
you seem to have added weight and complexity to the bike , never a good thing for a racing bike .
if the only advantage is going to be a lighter clutch you could achieve the same result by altering the lever pivot point . this said i know nothing about drag racing so feel free to ignore me!

All comments are welcomed here. All observations and advice are encouraged.

What do you recommend as far as levers or any other changes when utilizing a cable set up.??

Offline scottly

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2024, 12:40:35 PM »
2) Installation of the cover is more difficult as it must be rotated on one dowel pin to place the slave iinto the case recess and then clocked back to align the bolt holes. In my situation,  I'll probably remove all of the locating dowel pins so this becomes a non-issue. This is a dragbike so the cover riding on the shoulder of the cover bolts is not a deal breaker for me. This cover isn't stressed in a manner whereby a lack of locating pins will adversely affect clutch operation.

You need the dowel pins to accurately locate the cover over the kickstarter shaft!
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Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2024, 07:40:45 PM »
you seem to have added weight and complexity to the bike , never a good thing for a racing bike .
if the only advantage is going to be a lighter clutch you could achieve the same result by altering the lever pivot point . this said i know nothing about drag racing so feel free to ignore me!

All comments are welcomed here. All observations and advice are encouraged.

What do you recommend as far as levers or any other changes when utilizing a cable set up.??

Dragracer,  Does it have any free travel and is it adjustable…?
Can you limited the stroke of the slave..?
Looks like a good upgrade..
Age Quod Agis

Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2024, 09:35:05 PM »
you seem to have added weight and complexity to the bike , never a good thing for a racing bike .
if the only advantage is going to be a lighter clutch you could achieve the same result by altering the lever pivot point . this said i know nothing about drag racing so feel free to ignore me!

All comments are welcomed here. All observations and advice are encouraged.

What do you recommend as far as levers or any other changes when utilizing a cable set up.??

Dragracer,  Does it have any free travel and is it adjustable…?
Can you limited the stroke of the slave..?
Looks like a good upgrade..

The slave cylinder is threaded on the body. The adjuster from our stock cable at the cover is the same pitch. Therefore you can adjust it the same way we remove slack from the cable to to achieve free play. The pull rod  that goes into the slave cylinder itself is also threaded. There is a ball end fitting that screws onto it for additional adjustments. You can obviously still adjust free play and travel on the stock mechanism on theccover because you still use all those pieces including the lever. Settings rverything up is straightforward. It requires no special parts, no machining and is virtually  "bolt on". As i mentioned before,  my unanswered question lies in will thecsmaller cylinder give enough pull and then release fast enough. I'm position the 19mm will operate perfectly with the right bore master cylinder. I'll us the one that came with  the smaller 14mm bore slave cylinder and hope it works alright. If not, i know the fix would simply be to upgrade to a larger bore master cylinder. The good part about this entire experiment  is you can easily convert back to cable since nothing gets modified on the bike in any way, including the cover itself. 


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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2024, 09:37:37 PM »
2) Installation of the cover is more difficult as it must be rotated on one dowel pin to place the slave iinto the case recess and then clocked back to align the bolt holes. In my situation,  I'll probably remove all of the locating dowel pins so this becomes a non-issue. This is a dragbike so the cover riding on the shoulder of the cover bolts is not a deal breaker for me. This cover isn't stressed in a manner whereby a lack of locating pins will adversely affect clutch operation.

You need the dowel pins to accurately locate the cover over the kickstarter shaft!

Scottly,  in my case the kick shaft isn't an issue. In fact it  doesn't even work because I removed the internal gear. Its only in place so the oil pump gear can ride on it. You have a valid point about the necessity of the dowels for anyone else with an operational kick start shaft. I did get the cover back on with both in place. It'll just be easier for me to remove one or all. Given what you've said, i wouldn't advise anyone to do what i intend to carry out.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2024, 11:20:10 PM by dragracer »

Offline Leino

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2024, 11:36:31 PM »
you seem to have added weight and complexity to the bike , never a good thing for a racing bike .
if the only advantage is going to be a lighter clutch you could achieve the same result by altering the lever pivot point . this said i know nothing about drag racing so feel free to ignore me!
I've seen this a lot in classic endurance bikes so it must be a good idea  ;D

Offline simon#42

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2024, 09:50:46 AM »
the aprilia motogp team solved their starting problems by ditching the hydraulic clutch and went with a low tech cable .

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2024, 04:32:09 PM »
you seem to have added weight and complexity to the bike , never a good thing for a racing bike .
if the only advantage is going to be a lighter clutch you could achieve the same result by altering the lever pivot point . this said i know nothing about drag racing so feel free to ignore me!

All comments are welcomed here. All observations and advice are encouraged.

What do you recommend as far as levers or any other changes when utilizing a cable set up.??

Dragracer,  Does it have any free travel and is it adjustable…?
Can you limited the stroke of the slave..?
Looks like a good upgrade..

The slave cylinder is threaded on the body. The adjuster from our stock cable at the cover is the same pitch. Therefore you can adjust it the same way we remove slack from the cable to to achieve free play. The pull rod  that goes into the slave cylinder itself is also threaded. There is a ball end fitting that screws onto it for additional adjustments. You can obviously still adjust free play and travel on the stock mechanism on theccover because you still use all those pieces including the lever. Settings rverything up is straightforward. It requires no special parts, no machining and is virtually  "bolt on". As i mentioned before,  my unanswered question lies in will thecsmaller cylinder give enough pull and then release fast enough. I'm position the 19mm will operate perfectly with the right bore master cylinder. I'll us the one that came with  the smaller 14mm bore slave cylinder and hope it works alright. If not, i know the fix would simply be to upgrade to a larger bore master cylinder. The good part about this entire experiment  is you can easily convert back to cable since nothing gets modified on the bike in any way, including the cover itself.

That’s quite a bit of adjustability. Too bad they don’t offer a two stage option for the “drag racer” in all of us..😁
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Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2024, 08:43:45 PM »
you seem to have added weight and complexity to the bike , never a good thing for a racing bike .
if the only advantage is going to be a lighter clutch you could achieve the same result by altering the lever pivot point . this said i know nothing about drag racing so feel free to ignore me!

All comments are welcomed here. All observations and advice are encouraged.

What do you recommend as far as levers or any other changes when utilizing a cable set up.??

Dragracer,  Does it have any free travel and is it adjustable…?
Can you limited the stroke of the slave..?
Looks like a good upgrade..

The slave cylinder is threaded on the body. The adjuster from our stock cable at the cover is the same pitch. Therefore you can adjust it the same way we remove slack from the cable to to achieve free play. The pull rod  that goes into the slave cylinder itself is also threaded. There is a ball end fitting that screws onto it for additional adjustments. You can obviously still adjust free play and travel on the stock mechanism on theccover because you still use all those pieces including the lever. Settings rverything up is straightforward. It requires no special parts, no machining and is virtually  "bolt on". As i mentioned before,  my unanswered question lies in will thecsmaller cylinder give enough pull and then release fast enough. I'm position the 19mm will operate perfectly with the right bore master cylinder. I'll us the one that came with  the smaller 14mm bore slave cylinder and hope it works alright. If not, i know the fix would simply be to upgrade to a larger bore master cylinder. The good part about this entire experiment  is you can easily convert back to cable since nothing gets modified on the bike in any way, including the cover itself.

That’s quite a bit of adjustability. Too bad they don’t offer a two stage option for the “drag racer” in all of us..😁


One reason I'm going through this hydraulic clutch process is to be able to perhaps fashion a mallet magnet set up on the lever and bars. This will allow me to pull the clutch in, press a button to activate the magnet, be able to utilize the 2 step rev limiter function, go full throttle and then release the clutch from a button. I'd mainly use that function for super eliminator to get a better launch. 2 steps are not legal in street ET.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2024, 10:07:54 PM by dragracer »

Offline Don R

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2024, 11:03:14 PM »
 I wonder if an electric roll control valve like we use on the front brakes of a car would release faster than the magnet and lever?  Pump the clutch lever, set the button and release like a trans brake. Just a thought.
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Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2024, 12:02:18 AM »
I wonder if an electric roll control valve like we use on the front brakes of a car would release faster than the magnet and lever?  Pump the clutch lever, set the button and release like a trans brake. Just a thought.

Some have used that setup successfully.

Offline Don R

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2024, 09:51:09 AM »
 Dang, I thought I might have invented it. L0L!
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Offline dragracer

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2024, 03:12:01 PM »
From some of the responses here of those who've done the hydraulic conversion,  I'm not reading any regrets. I can only assume all are used on streetbikes. The majirity used a push type slave mounted on a plate bolted to the cover. Mine will be a pull type just like a stock cable. It now remains for me to follow through this process to see how well it works in a dragbike application on an SOHC Honda.

Offline MRieck

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Re: Hydraulic clutch conversion for the mono shock dragbike. Will it work??
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2024, 05:18:00 PM »
I wonder if the smaller slave cylinder would work great with an adjustable ratio clutch master cylinder. The small bore can create a lot of pressure. I do have one of these I traded for port work years ago.... https://apracing.com/special-vehicles/motorcycle/master-cylinders/pull-type-adjustable-ratio-master-cylinders/variable-ratio-type-cp4125-26.  I ordered that small slave.....we'll see.
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