Author Topic: Weird Ignition switch issue  (Read 12952 times)

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Offline Duanob

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Weird Ignition switch issue
« on: October 14, 2024, 04:03:33 PM »
Tali light only works in park light mode. I traced the no power back to the ignition switch brown wire. It used to work in On and Park mode. Is the ignition switch toast? Everything else works great. Just bought a new key for this switch. Brake and turn signals work fine.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 05:56:08 PM by Duanob »
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Offline scottly

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2024, 07:18:43 PM »
Check the 5 amp taillight fuse. When the switch is in the On position, the taillight gets power from the fuse, but when the switch is in the park position, the taillight gets power from the main fuse, via the red wire.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2024, 07:21:46 PM »
If you're talking about the 550, the taillight fuse is likely a 7 amp instead: the 750 uses a 5 amp or 2.5 amp (depending on year) fuse there.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline rotortiller

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2024, 03:28:56 AM »
Had that problem and it was the ignition switch, wiggled the key around and it would come back on. The fix was a new key selector switch. Mine had the key location in front of the handlebars.

Offline Duanob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2024, 12:20:50 PM »
Yeah, the first thing I checked was the fuse. Even checked resistance of the fuse and got it, so the fuse is good. I also used a screw driver across the fuse holder and still got no voltage. I am waiting for a complete blade type fuse box to replace the original. Someone had already clipped the main wires and wired in a 25AMP blade type. But I checked the voltage at the ignition switch, turned on I don't get anything out of the brown tail light wire. I do get 12V from the other terminals on the switch. This bike has it's electrical gremlins for sure but I'm working through them.

Wouldn't be the first time I've encountered and bad ignition switch. Anybody tried the Emgo switches? Are they worth it?
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2024, 12:34:32 PM »
I have both used, and replaced many, EMGO switches. They are selling the one for the CB/CL/SL350  as a switch for the SOHC4 bikes, which either burns the internal contacts, or (in several 750s I've worked on, including my own) melted the wires right off the switch. The 350 uses 8 amp contacts while the SOHC4 bikes need 12A-15A contacts and wire sizes: the EMGO wires also are sized at about 22 AWG instead of the 17 AWG minimum needed for the SOHC electric loads.

Honda still sells these switches, and also a complete set of seat & steering locks plus keyswitch, as a set. Top quality, too.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2024, 02:01:19 PM »
Most likely the contacts inside the switch are dirty. It does come apart fairly easily, just be careful not to break a plastic lug though. Clean the embedded contact plate and the brass contact plates themselves, assemble with some dialectic grease.

Offline rotortiller

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2024, 07:41:38 PM »
Quote
Anybody tried the Emgo switches? Are they worth it?

I installed one  over a year ago and it works fine and was cheap enough. I just got the switch section however the Honda one may be better. Yea, it was worth it. I used the Honda harness on my K7. Looked the same and for me it's enough that it works. Lights are bright and all works as it should.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2024, 07:51:35 PM by rotortiller »

Offline Duanob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2024, 09:06:20 PM »
The Emgo is about $30 the Honda is about $130. Also the bike is a 1976 CB550K with the switch on the down tube.

And as mentioned above, in park mode I was getting 12V on the brown wire and nothing in the ON key position. It all worked the way it should just a couple of weeks ago. Not sure what happened between now and then.
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

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Offline scottly

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2024, 09:26:51 PM »
What do you get on the brown/white wire with the key on?
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2024, 12:17:29 AM »
I can recommend this repro: https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550-k2-four-1976-usa_model464/switch-assy-comb-non_35100341700p/
Models for Europe didn't have that silly headlight-always-on wiring.
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Offline M 750K6

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2024, 08:51:19 AM »
Not sure why it's silly. The only time I turn mine off is whilst starting. Done well, always on lights should go off when starting, to reduce battery drain.

Offline scottly

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2024, 10:18:05 AM »

Models for Europe didn't have that silly headlight-always-on wiring.
The ignition switch has nothing to do with the headlight-always-on wiring.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline rotortiller

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2024, 10:31:16 AM »
A bright headlight helps to keep cars at bay that may have cut you off. Since I started driving with high beams on with my LED things with cars have improved as the dumb #$%*s see you coming and think you are closer! lol I doubt that has anything to do with the tail light being U/S.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 01:00:06 PM by rotortiller »

Offline Duanob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2024, 10:46:10 AM »
What do you get on the brown/white wire with the key on?

Scottly, I get nothing on the brown/white coming off the switch with the key turned to ON. I have the switch out. I may take it apart and clean it. If it doesn't work then just buy a new one.

The thing is we have laws in the US and especially my state about headlights and taillights. I just want it working properly to ride around town. 
« Last Edit: October 16, 2024, 10:53:56 AM by Duanob »
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

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Offline scottly

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2024, 11:20:00 AM »
The brown/wht wire is supposed to have 12V when the switch is on; the switch connects the two brown wires together in the on position. Do you read continuity between the two wires with the switch on? If so, the switch may be ok, and power from the tail fuse is not making it to the switch.
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Online bryanj

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2024, 11:41:56 AM »
My only comment is this is a common switch problem and not wierd at all
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Offline Duanob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2024, 11:44:00 AM »
Update, I took the switch apart. Seems to be in decent shape, no corrosion or broken wires. The red wire has 12V going into the switch but doesn't seem to be distributing it to the tail light in the ON position, only in the PARK position. In the ON position I got nothing on either brown or brown/white wires. I just found a K&L brand switch, I just bought online so we'll see when it arrives. Kinda frustrating not figuring this out. I think I''l go take my beemer for a ride! :)
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

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(*) /' (*)

Offline scottly

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2024, 11:48:13 AM »
The brown/white is the 12v into the switch; if you don't have 12v there with the key on, you won't get 12v out of the switch on the brown wire.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline Duanob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2024, 04:49:31 PM »
My schematic shows B/W is Tail light 1 and the Brown is rail light 2. Red is 12V power to the switch. Which is consistent with what I've found. Red has 12V at the connector to the key switch.
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

  __o
_- \_<,
(*) /' (*)

Offline scottly

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2024, 08:36:06 PM »
The taillight wiring is so complicated because it supports the Park function, where the switch connects the red 12+ wire from the main fuse directly to the brown TL2 taillight wire, and allows the key to be removed. I have never used this function, and the only reason I can think of why it was included on every Honda had something to do with other markets? It wasn't a US requirement, as far as I know.
When the key is in the On position, 12v goes into the switch on the red wire, and comes out on the black wire, which provides power, in turn, to the brown/white TL1 wire, which then provides power back to the switch to the brown TL2 wire through the switch contacts. If there isn't 12V on the brown/white wire with the switch on, there is a problem besides the switch. Where in the harness the brown/white wire connects to the 12v supply from the black wire varies; if your bike has a headlight on/off switch, that switch connects the black wire to the brown/white wire, which goes on to the headlight fuse, tach and speedo lights, and taillight. Simple, right?? 
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Offline Oddjob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2024, 03:34:31 AM »
Parking lights were certainly a UK requirement many years ago. IIRC you had to park in the direction of traffic flow (presume so the reflectors lit up when headlights hit them). The current law says they are needed on any road with a speed limit of more than 30mph, unless you're parked in a layby or are more than 32ft from a junction. You are required to leave them on all night, hence why sidelights are low wattage bulbs. As with most laws these days not many adhere to it and I've never heard of anyone getting prosecuted for not using them. We still have sidelights in the UK even on modern cars and bikes. 

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2024, 03:42:30 AM »

Models for Europe didn't have that silly headlight-always-on wiring.
The ignition switch has nothing to do with the headlight-always-on wiring.
Mwah... I wouldn't say 'nothing'. Whenever on such a US model the IGN key switch is switched from OFF to ON, its contacts have to deal with a lot more load at once (!) compared to European models. I seem to remember that in the past there have been remarks in this forum about a repro switch (Emgo) that wore out prematurely because - as was suggested - it could not handle the load. BTW, that problem does not exist in Europe as far as I know. So the remark I added in my reply (#10), where I recommended an aftermarket IGN key switch, should be seen in that light. I just wanted to fully inform our members. I don't know where the repro I bought from CMSNL stands in this. All I know is it works well on a model with a separate switch for the lights and is cheap. Members can make the choice whether they also want to have a separate switch for the lights, which - I can assure you - is quite handy: you don't need to remove the headlight bulb or its fuse to prevent draining the battery whenever you have to work on your bike.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,193278.msg2255469.html#msg2255469
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Offline Duanob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2024, 10:07:54 AM »
Thanks Scottly, I assumed the same thing. So I bought a new switch. Just waiting for it to be delivered........
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

  __o
_- \_<,
(*) /' (*)

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2024, 10:42:12 AM »
The taillight wiring is so complicated because it supports the Park function, where the switch connects the red 12+ wire from the main fuse directly to the brown TL2 taillight wire, and allows the key to be removed. I have never used this function, and the only reason I can think of why it was included on every Honda had something to do with other markets? It wasn't a US requirement, as far as I know.
In Japan it was.
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"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."