Author Topic: Weird Ignition switch issue  (Read 12954 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2024, 08:00:20 PM »
Generally speaking with these switches (not just the ones for the SOHC4 bikes), you can judge the size of the internal contacts' current-carrying ability by the size of the wires going to the plug. The EMGO switch I mentioned above has very small wires when compared with a normal SOHC4 switch of the under-tank type. In my book I show a way (which will also reappear in the 500/550 book soon) to work around this: for 3 years when Honda wasn't making these switches - and mine failed in rush-hour traffic - I created a relay that switches with the [cheap] keyswitch to carry the loads instead. It worked for 3 years until Honda reissued the kits: then I bought the whole kit. My steering column keylock was getting gritty, anyway. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline Rookster

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2024, 08:50:14 AM »
I'm getting the same result with a switch on the bench.  When I connect 12v to the red wire and turn the switch to the on position I only get 12v out of the black wire.  The brown and brown/white wires show no current.  When I turn the switch to the parking light position I only get 12v out of the brown wire.  Is  the switch functioning properly?



Scott
« Last Edit: October 22, 2024, 03:37:42 PM by Rookster »

Online scottly

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2024, 09:22:50 AM »
Check for continuity between the two brown wires with the switch in the on position.
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Offline Duanob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2024, 11:02:00 AM »
My update: New key switch, new blade type fuse block and fuses, still the same issue. Perplexing!

Just thinking out loud. The tail light assembly works, the brake light works, the tail light works in the park position. I've checked the green grounding connection, all connections are good, the block itself is connected because the turn signals, brake light all work and the tail light works in the key park position. I've tried to trace with a voltmeter and it all comes back to the ignition not getting juice to the brown wire. That's where the brown wire stops. I thought if by chance it went through one of the bar controls, I could look there but it doesn't. I doubt the new key switch is bad as well and I believe my OEM key switch is still good so I will always have that in case the Emgo fails. I can't find any shorts or bare wires anywhere. This has got me stumped! It all worked properly just a couple of weeks ago. Trying to figure out anything that I might've done since then but nothing with the wiring.

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Offline rotortiller

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2024, 11:53:22 AM »
Since you have no power coming in on the BR/W with the switch you need to make that happen as when the switch contacts make for BR/W and BR dick all is happening. I suspect the headlight bucket area for a wrong connection of the BR/W that should be supplying the key switch BR/W wire in the on position. The instrument lights work so the thing has power at BR/W circuit in the on position. Unplug the switch and check continuity at the switch BR/W and BR  'on' then no continuity  switch 'off'.   

« Last Edit: October 22, 2024, 03:43:53 PM by rotortiller »

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2024, 12:09:32 PM »
Does your bike have running lights, in that the front indicators light up when the ignition is on?

Have you been inside the headlight recently?

Do you have 12v on the brown/blue wire going into the fuse box?

Offline Rookster

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2024, 03:33:57 PM »
Check for continuity between the two brown wires with the switch in the on position.

Just checked.  Yes I have continuity between the brown/white and brown wires with the switch in the on position.  I guess the switch checks out ok.  Its weird the way Honda wired this thing.

Thanks
Scott

Offline rotortiller

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2024, 04:00:16 PM »
Next find where the break is in the wiring harness for supplying the Br/W at the switch connection. BR/W should have power when the switch is in the on position (BK and Red at switch made). Could be a break in the BR/W in the harness or a connection. Worst case is you run a new BR/W wire to it from BR/W that is functional in the bucket. If there is no power in the bucket at BR/W and the instrument lights are non- functional it means we find out why.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2024, 04:05:30 PM by rotortiller »

Offline Duanob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2024, 06:30:19 PM »
Roto, you're a genius!
I noticed my gauge lights were out. I plugged a power source into the brown/white junction in the HL bucket (extra open port) and the gauge and tail light work with the key in ON position. Now I just need to find the power wire that goes into the Brown/White junction. I don't have any left over loose wires that have power.

Update: Got it figured out! There is a little jumper wire, Br/W with a black end on it. The black end goes to the black junction, Br/W goes to the Br/W junction. So far all lights are working properly. Thanks again for the help and advice! Couldn't do it without this you all on this board.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2024, 07:15:40 PM by Duanob »
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

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Offline rotortiller

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2024, 03:06:17 AM »
Glad you figured it out, sorry you had to get a switch that was unnecessary as I kind of led you down that path.

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2024, 04:21:28 AM »
Then the wiring diagram posted by Rotortiller must be incorrect as there is a switch marked headlight switch which does the exact thing you have now done. The switch taking the place of the jumper wire. Does your bike have this switch?

My wiring diagram didn't show that switch, on mine is showed a brown/blue wire running up from the fuse box and feeding into the black wire circuit (main power) inside the headlight, either way the problems solved but it would be nice to clarify the situation just in case someone in the future has the same problem and is looking for the answer.

Offline rotortiller

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2024, 04:55:21 AM »
Oddjob, The coloured wiring diagram I borrowed off the internet was  enough to get things straightened out so thanks go to the artist. I find vintage diagrams are often missing something but the key information for the switch contacts and basic intent dictates corrective action. The wire with the black band is found on various Honda bikes to supply power to the Br/W. Here is one from a CB750.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2024, 05:14:21 AM »
The secret is in consulting the correct wiring diagram. The colored 'aftermarket' ones often cover one market only. Go for example to the last pages of the Shop Manual Honda CB500/550 and learn that the CB550F2 for instance had no less than five different diagrams.
Since I know my model is a CB500K2-ED, I can always check the appropiate data.
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Offline Oddjob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2024, 06:08:08 AM »
Oddjob, The coloured wiring diagram I borrowed off the internet was  enough to get things straightened out so thanks go to the artist. I find vintage diagrams are often missing something but the key information for the switch contacts and basic intent dictates corrective action. The wire with the black band is found on various Honda bikes to supply power to the Br/W. Here is one from a CB750.

Oh I know that Rotortiller, I was in the trade for many years and have wired up thousands of bikes from out of the crate, there is one I distinctly remember having a yellow tube on it for some reason, I think the reasoning was to convert the stripe to a yellow from another colour. My point was to ask the OP IF they had this switch and if so then check the contacts on it as that would clearly be the problem, no switch, no problem.

The secret is in consulting the correct wiring diagram. The colored 'aftermarket' ones often cover one market only. Go for example to the last pages of the Shop Manual Honda CB500/550 and learn that the CB550F2 for instance had no less than five different diagrams.
Since I know my model is a CB500K2-ED, I can always check the appropiate data.

As a lot of bikes these days have been exported to outside the market they were originally intended for so that's not always possible, we rely on information from the OP and that info is not always forthcoming, American markets for instance got running lights, most of the rest of the world did not, the UK got a passing light or headlight flasher and a lot of others didn't. However certain fundamentals remain the same for all markets so even the wrong diagram is better than no diagram.
As for coloured wiring diagrams are concerned, they serve a purpose BUT I prefer to use a genuine Honda one, a coloured one for instance is almost useless if you're colour blind but can be useful in certain circumstances, they tend to be bigger for example so people with close vision problems find them very handy.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2024, 08:16:29 AM »
innumerous times have I communicated that first on your list after acquiring a bike, is to determine what model it is and what 'area code' it has. Compare your frame- and enginenumber to those listed in the first few  pages of the various parts list and you will know exactly what nodel you're dealing with, what carbs it has or is supposed to have and what wiring diagram is the correct one.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 11:40:25 PM by Deltarider »
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2024, 08:48:26 AM »
CB750 has another brown wire for parking from switch in park mode.

It is usually not used, located in head light bucket.

Is this connected instead of correct wire for rear light?

Regarding relays. Good thing when voltage can drop due to a bad ignition switch.
No problem as long as relay get enough to activate and stay activated.

Both my CB750 have relays for ignition, Hi, Lo. Thicker wiring with hanging fuses from battery.

My K6 has relays that switch off  parking LED bulb at Lo,  feeding amp hungry dual horn.
5 relays in total ;D
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Offline rotortiller

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2024, 09:25:45 AM »
I skimmed through the post again and I see Scotty had the problem BR/w situation cased before anyone else, I think he should be given credit.

Offline Duanob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2024, 05:08:38 PM »
Props to Scottly too!

FWIW here is the proper 1976 CB550K wiring diagram. My issue was the little jumper wire in the HL bucket was wired to the worng thing. This jumper appears in this schematic but none of the others.
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

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Offline Oddjob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2024, 03:38:18 AM »
Can't make out the colours of the wires going to the 5a fuse for the tailight, any chance you could look at see what they are for future reference.

Offline Duanob

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2024, 11:08:23 AM »
5A fuse is just Brown, 7A fuse is Brown/red. But the Brown/white wire was the key for my issue. It supplies power to the tail light through switch via the headlight bucket.

Another issue I found is aftermarket parts don't always use the same coloring as Honda. Like my aftermarket rectifier, or clutch switch. Both were wired wrong. Also turn signals you have to designate ground vs power, black wire vs black/white wire. green is always ground on these old hondas. Black is powered. Kind of confusing!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 11:10:51 AM by Duanob »
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

1974 CB360T
1976 CB550K2 Resurrected
1976 CB550F2 Barn Find
1979 CX500 VG "HONDA-GUZZI"
2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 750ie
2015 BMW F700GS
Another 1976 CB550K Cafe?

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Offline bryanj

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Re: Weird Ignition switch issue
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2024, 03:36:58 PM »
Not for Honda. green is always ground
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