Author Topic: Any paint experts out there?  (Read 4881 times)

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Offline MDW

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Any paint experts out there?
« on: October 14, 2024, 05:16:52 PM »
I am in the process of painting the tank and panels of my 1975 400/4 and I'm slowly going around the bend! It's Candy Antares red, so not the easiest. The first attempt didn't go well, so I restarted and spent the weekend applying paint. I applied a lot of primer layers 3-4 base coats, 3-4 mid coats (the Candy red) and 3-4 clear coats. Apart from a small run and some orange peel the outcome was really good (btw I am using cans as I don't have spray painting equipment). I wait 24 hours and started to wet sand the clear coat to remove the orange peel and run. All was going well until I saw a white color appear under the clear coat. It looked like I had sanded through the clear coat, and the candy down to the base coat which is silver. However, the clear coat is still intact. Any ideas what this could be? Is there a solution which doesn't involve starting from scratch again? I've attached photos of the paint before wet sanding and the problem area. Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 07:21:29 PM by MDW »

Online Ozzybud

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Re: Any paint experts out there?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2024, 06:39:32 PM »
Are you using 2K clearcoat? 
I usually wait 48 hours minimum to color sand.

Definitely looks like you sanded through down to the metallic.
Candy jobs are very difficult to repair. You would need to sand the entire tank with 800 grit, use an airbrush to carefully apply the mid coat in the affected area then clear the entire tank
  Likely you will end up with it being lighter where the silver is showing through.
When color sanding either tape the lines with fine line tape when color sanding or use a different color paint stick to highlight the lines. Then stay away from the edges untill the final polish.

If it was my tank I would start over.. I start every one of my painjobs with a strawberry 🍓 shake from dairy queen. Calms my nerves. A little superstitious! It works!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 06:42:20 PM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline Flyin900

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Re: Any paint experts out there?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2024, 06:41:47 PM »
The post above is from a more experienced painter.

Quick answer no you need to coat the top coat of colour again and then the clear. You should be able to spot spray in the area and clear coat that area or most of the tank. You may need to spray the silver over the area too if you have cut down to the primer level.
The issue I believe is that was a raised area so likely not as much clear coat, or your sanding method put too much pressure on that top spot area and you have cut through the clear and the colour coat.

Full disclosure I am a hobby painter who does use body shop materials and a proper spray gun system. I haven’t ventured into the multi stage paints you have done there, so this is more of a best guess suggestion.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 06:47:47 PM by Flyin900 »
Common sense.....isn't so common!

1966 CL77 - 305cc - Gentleman's Scrambler
1967 CL175K0 - Scrambler #802 engine
1972 CB350F - Candy Bacchus Olive - Super Sport
1973 CB350F - Flake Matador Red - Super Sport
1975 CB400F - Parakeet Yellow - Super Sport
1976 CB400F - Varnish Blue - Super Sport
1976 GL1000 - Goldwing Standard
1978 CB550K - Super Sport
1981 GL1100 - Goldwing Standard
1982 CM450A - Hondamatic
1982 CB900C - Custom
1983 CX650E - Eurosport
1983 CB1000C - Custom X 2 Bikes now - both restored
1983 CB1100F - Super Sport - Pristine example
1984 GL1200 - Goldwing Standard

Online Ozzybud

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Re: Any paint experts out there?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2024, 06:51:04 PM »
The Candy midcoat is a translucent color. The amount of coats you apply change the darkness of the color. If you were to apply more coats of color just to the top of the tank it would be darker than the sides and the sanded through area will be lighter and stand out.
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Online Ozzybud

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Re: Any paint experts out there?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2024, 06:59:29 PM »
Test panel for a 1970  CT70

1 coat on the right. 5 far left.. went for 3 with silver metallic basecoat.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 07:03:15 PM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline Flyin900

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Re: Any paint experts out there?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2024, 07:27:47 PM »
Thanks I did know about the amount of coats and the change in colour, so that makes sense that he needs to really start over. Trying to blow in a small spot and match would require some skill with a air brush I would expect.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 07:29:34 PM by Flyin900 »
Common sense.....isn't so common!

1966 CL77 - 305cc - Gentleman's Scrambler
1967 CL175K0 - Scrambler #802 engine
1972 CB350F - Candy Bacchus Olive - Super Sport
1973 CB350F - Flake Matador Red - Super Sport
1975 CB400F - Parakeet Yellow - Super Sport
1976 CB400F - Varnish Blue - Super Sport
1976 GL1000 - Goldwing Standard
1978 CB550K - Super Sport
1981 GL1100 - Goldwing Standard
1982 CM450A - Hondamatic
1982 CB900C - Custom
1983 CX650E - Eurosport
1983 CB1000C - Custom X 2 Bikes now - both restored
1983 CB1100F - Super Sport - Pristine example
1984 GL1200 - Goldwing Standard

Offline MDW

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Re: Any paint experts out there?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2024, 07:31:02 PM »
Thank for the comments above. The only thing is (and at the end of the day this likely doesn't change anything), that I am 99.9% certain I haven't sanded through the clear coat.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Any paint experts out there?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2024, 07:49:02 PM »
I've experienced something similar (in Candy Gold). What I learned from it was: I was not waiting long enough between the coats, and this would cause the layers over edges and bumps to 'melt' into each other somewhat because the paint hadn't "flashed off" (term I learned from a bodyshop friend) yet when I applied the next coat(s). This makes the new coat spread itself out and thin itself down over features like edges or raised sites, and it also tended to make an uneven surface there (like a wrinkle or ridge), even making it look like tiny hailstones had hit it on the high feature. The top color was then extremely thin on those features as compared to the other areas. It also highlited any low areas as darker spots.

The bodyshop guy described this as "the paint didn't have enough traction [sic] top stay on the high point, and as it slid away it melted into the previous coat right there" (that's pretty close to what he said, anyway...).

I've also learned that waiting more than 24 hours between the basecoat(s) and the color coat(s), despite some articles cursing this method, worked out much better. Now, I will wait at LEAST 4 hours after the basecoat (if the topcoat is translucent like Candy Colors) before laying on the first of multiple coats, and then the multi-coat of the same paint acts more predictably than the (basecoat+colorcoat) with modern paints. Certainly back in the 1970s, we had to be VERY cognizant of the humidity and temperature, and we timed the layers of paint with a stopwatch (10-12 minutes between multiple basecoats, wait 18-24 minutes for 1st topcoat, all topcoats at even time intervals of between 8 and 20 minutes, longer with high humidity) and clear topcoat(s) went on the next day - at least 20 hours later. Today they don't seem to be quite so tricky to apply as those were!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2024, 12:36:05 PM by HondaMan »
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Offline MDW

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Re: Any paint experts out there?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2024, 08:03:48 PM »
Thanks Hondaman. I followed the instructions which said wait 8-12 mins between coats. Next time I will leave longer. I expect I have to start from scratch again but I least I learned something!

Online Ozzybud

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Re: Any paint experts out there?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2024, 08:26:56 PM »
Thank for the comments above. The only thing is (and at the end of the day this likely doesn't change anything), that I am 99.9% certain I haven't sanded through the clear coat.

In your lower picture above you can clearly see where you have sanded through the clear. That area does not appear to be there in the upper 2 shots.There is an outline of where the clear is no longer present.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 08:37:34 PM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Any paint experts out there?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2024, 12:44:09 PM »
It is hard to see if you have sanded through the clear or not. If you haven't then you can carefully wet sand the clear back and just redo the clear coat, so you won't have to start from scratch again.  However, you say you are using rattle can paint. Is it petrol proof? Most isn't, but you can get 2K in rattle cans that is ok. It is essential to use petrol proof paint.  Secondly, when are you intending to add the decals? I haven't done loads of paint jobs but I have always put the decals over the base coat before clear-coating, putting them between layers of clear gives a weird look to them.