Topic: Where to start - the orders of operation on a newbie's first bike

[csendker]

Greg-

I forgot to mention that I had a nasty chain noise issue last year.  It seems that I should have been lubricating my chain on a regular interval, like after each ride instead of; say, almost never.  It kind of 'locked' in place around the sprockets and then 'popped' straight as it was spinning.  A good lube later and problem solved.  I used WD-40 last year, but broke down and got the real deal; P1J-black label, for this year and beyond.  The work 'oil' and a spinning chain invokes thoughts of massive splatter all over the place.

As for the list, I can virtually guarantee that I swiped it, from one of TT's posts, if I recall correctly.  Credit where credit is due.  I plotted mine out on 24x36 plot paper and stuck it on my garage wall.  I'll dig for your e-mail and send some stuff your way.

Bike looks great.  I've found that until you amass the knowledge, tools and parts, you'll be running into many roadblocks.  That's when I either walk away, or switch into 'form' mode and clean something up for a while.

I noticed the sprocket pic myself - looks like it's on the wrong side of the wheel from the pic.  Maybe it's a jjust special order bike for south-paws. 

[doug_id]

Hi Greg....welcome to the board and to riding     This is a great place to hang out.

And yes, get your wallet ready...once you start it is hard to stop. 

Hey old school.....great list!   

Doug

[formasfunction]

Man, nothing gets past you guys!  The sprocket pic is upside down because that was the easiest way to hold the camera when I snapped it.

if you haven't already bought a Clymer...

I definitely opted for two day shipping on the Clymer manual from Amazon because I hate that feeling of "eh, that seems like it's right...

Doug, your thread has definitely been an inspiration to say the least.  Your confident stride and blatant disregard for all things financial have netted you a killer looking bike.

I won't have a chance to open anything up tonight or tomorrow but saturday the first order of business looks to be checking the integrity of my brakes.

[formasfunction]

Does anyone know if this horn off of a 78 CB550 will fit my 75?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1978-Honda-CB550K-CB550-Chrome-Horn-with-Cable-Guide_W0QQitemZ250095042313QQcategoryZ35591QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

The mount looks a little different than this one from a 75:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Horn-Assembly-1975-Honda-CB550-CB-550-75_W0QQitemZ140046577670QQcategoryZ35594QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

[csendker]

Brakes:  you may want to replace the fluid and do a good bleed job.  I didn't when I got my bike and my brakes were unknowingly bad.  I had to replace the fluid & bleed them when I did my handlebar swap and what a difference.  I just never knew.

Horn:  Open up two parts fich windows --> http://www.crotchrocket.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1975&fveh=2948 and compare the parts/numbers side-by-side.

[OldSchool_IsCool]

Like SOHC/4, UNIX will get you in touch with your inner mechanic/programmer

Ha.  Old School it sounds like you're a fellow coder. 

Worse, Database Administrator and Application Server Administrator 


That chain looks pretty scary!  You can even see that the leading pin of the master is kinked.  Bet that's your chain noise.  When you are done with Csendker's tune-up list, get a new chain.  I'm on the fence concerning your sprockets.  There probably aren't very many miles on the ones you have and the teeth in the picture look reasonable.  If you have the $$, change them.  If you need to economize, you can skip them for now, but understand that this decision may shorten the life of your new chain. 

Get a good chain lube and apply as directed.  More often if it's wet or dusty when you ride.

After all that, change the brake fluid and the fork oil.  Look in the brake FAQ and you will find size data for a speed bleeder.  Well worth the doezen bucks it will cost you!

[csendker]

In fact, I'd change any fluid in the bike just for peace of mind.  Who know how old or what the heck the PO put in there.

[TwoTired]

The pic of the rear sprocket is awful.  Not the pic but the sprocket.  Replace it NOW. The kinking of the chain is also bad news, indicating it is either very dry or worn out.  If it has been running on that rear sprocket for any length of time, the chain is junk, too.  My expectation from seeing the rear sprocket and bad chain, is that the front sprocket is most likely bad, too.

If you don't replace all three parts ASAP. At least stay off the power with the twist grip.  Broken chains aren't the least bit funny or enjoyable.

Sorry to give your bad news.  Do NOT replace with a 530 Oring chain on the 550.  You might go with a 520 oring chain if you can find the proper sprockets.  Otherwise, just get a standard 530 chain and Honda sprockets.  I like the way their teeth are machined.

Cheers,

[TwoTired]

Couple other things:
Your oil leak might be the tappet adjust cover oring.  You could simply replace it and see if it stops. Or, clean it and spray the area with foot powder or K2R.  The white powder will turn darkest where the oil is coming from.

The right muffler discoloration is probably from battery acid.  Check to see if the vent tube is still on the battery and that the end of the tube is routed away from bike parts to the bottom of the bike.

I might take that battery spillage to be concern for the charging system.  I would do a battery voltage test with a fully charged battery and map the readings against RPM; idle, 2000, 3000, 4000, and 5000.  If someone has mucked with the Vreg adjustment it could overcharge the battery during cruise and boil out the battery acid, spilling it on the pipes.

Those fender dents might be worked out from the inside of the fender with wooden dowels or a lathkin.  Could certainly make them less noticeable, if not invisable.

Cheers,

[formasfunction]

TT!  Your reputation precedes you!

I'll look into the battery issue since that's the main problem that I have right now, the same charging problem that everyone else has.  I know the battery thats in there is only about a month old but with it never charging I'm sure previous batteries have seen their limits.  This weekend I plan to clean all of the wires and use the handy grease that seems so popular.  I'm also going to run the voltage test you recommended.

As for the rear sprocket, what am I looking for in terms of wear?  I followed a link on this site where there was a comparison of a new sprocket and an old sprocket and the main difference I saw was a rounding off of the teeth which I haven't seen on mine.  What else should I be looking for?  As for the chain kink, that was before I oiled it and it was dry as a bone, sounded like the tinman.  I think the previous owners lubed it at every oil change...

Of the two options, getting a 520 sprocket with oring chain or stock 530 parts, which would you recommend?  Is it worth it to switch to 520 sprockets and chains?  I'm going to go ahead and replace all three either way (front, rear, chain) so if I spend a little extra money in the process I can deal with that if there's a good trade off.  Will it make that much of a difference in regards to longevity and wear?  It looks like 520 equipment is a little more expensive, am I saving myself time more than money in the long run?

Worse, Database Administrator and Application Server Administrator

Old School, I know your type and I'm sorry...   You guys "act busy" all day and create an index every once in while under the guise of "optimization."

Csendker, I'm with you.  I'm going to drain everything I can out of this baby and give her a fresh start.

This weekend is going to be busy - rider's class tonight from 6-9:30, tomorrow 9-6, and Sunday 9-2.  Jeez!

[TwoTired]

Hi faf,

Remember, the Voltage test results are way more definitive when done with a fully charged battery.

When I look at your rear sprocket, I note that the valleys between the teeth are not round but oval.  When you get your new replacements, you will see that the chain rollers fit perfectly into that nice round valley and won't move fore and aft.  If you check your chain, you will probably find the individual rollers fit quite sloppily onto the pins of the chain, another sign of excessive wear.  You might also have missing rollers, leaving the pins exposed.  Check for that, too.  However, the critical point of failure is the pin to end plate wear.  Each pin is a hinge and when the side plate wears away enough of the pin material the chain eventually weakens to the point wear a sudden power application snaps the pins.  Bye Bye chain.  And, if it wads up next to the motor case on the highway, the effects are comparable to grenade damage.
Another chain check I'd expect your current bits to fail is the "tight spot" test.  With the bike on the center stand check the chain tension while slowly rotating the rear wheel.  A good chain/sprockets will have the same tension over the entire length of chain.

The front sprocket wears much faster than the rear sprocket.  If your front sprocket is the same age as the rear, I would expect noticeably dismal tooth wear on the front.

The advantage of an oring chain is that it demands less maintenance attention than a standard chain over its service life.  This advantage would be on long range trips where frequent maintenance is undesirable.  The Honda owners manual expects a chain to be checked, lubed, and tensioned every 500 miles or 1 month.  This applies to both standard and oring.  Personally, I prefer every 300 miles for attention on standard chains.  I don't have extensive experience with oring chains.  All my 550s have standard chains on which I regularly apply PJ1 chain lube.  But, if I was planning to drive one coast to coast, I'd certainly look into the 520 conversion with vigor.  Do NOT let any salesmen sell you a 530 oring chain for your 550.  And, if he tries, consider ALL advise from said person null and void. 
Or, you could ask him if he would offer, in writing, a guarantee that it won't chew up the engine case. (I'd like to see one pay for that advise.  I have some scarred cases.)

Cheers,

[formasfunction]

Thanks TT, I think I'm going to look into the 520 conversion since I need new parts anyway and I often fantasize about doing something like these guys did: http://www.honda50.cc/.  Maybe not this season but there's always next summer when I can shoot for being unemployed and free of responsibility, right?

The more I think about this the more I think it'd be best to just stay stock.  Thats the spirit of everything else I'm thinking about doing with this bike so I might as well stay that way here.  Hrumph!

[TwoTired]

 I think that's a good decision.  If you go away from home for more than 300-500 miles.  Then bring a small can of PJ1 and a small rag in a large Zip lock bag.  With that and the bike's toolkit, chain issues are very minor.

Cheers,

[OldSchool_IsCool]

Of course we're busy all day, those indexes get pretty heavy!! 

Good luck with your safety class!!  If they run it the way they ran mine, they will split the class and you'll only be there a half day Sat & Sun.

[formasfunction]

So, I didn't have much time to tear things apart today but here are a few things I found out:

1. How do I get to the middle two spark plugs?  For the life of me I can't get my attachment to fit into those holes, it seems like the diameter of the socket is too large even though it works fine for the exterior two plugs.  Is this a common problem?  Also, as you can see in the pics below, it looks like my engine is running a little rich and fouling my plugs.

2. My electrical problems are uber weird (at least to me).  I plan on using a multimeter to check things closely when I have the chance but here's what I'm getting so far:
   A. The headlight works fine on low but turns off on high. 
   B. When the bike is on the turn signals only work correctly when the headlight is switched to high, and subsequently off (see A).  Sometimes when the headlight is on low they'll blink once but never more than that.
   C. When the bike is off the signals work fine no matter what the headlight setting is on.  Could this combination of things lead to a dead generator?  My theory is that if the bike is on and the headlight is pulling power then there's not enough to push out to the turn signals or the turn signal timer thingy which would explain why they work fine when the headlight is off or the bike itself is off.  Any credibility to this thought?

3. The magnetic switch is rusted pretty heavily on the positive/ground side (see pic below).  If the bike is starting fine is this a non-issue?

4. I pulled out the air filter tray to get to some of the wires and I noticed that there's a length of tubing attached to the bottom that comes to an end that seems to be ripped (see pic below).  I can find a matching ripped end inside of the bike, does this go to anything?  Also, there's another port on the bottom left hand side that didn't have anything connected to it.  Is that just there for looks? (kidding...)

[doug_id]

Hey that spark plug color looks familiar....

I think one of the hoses from the air box should connect via a tube to the outlet on the top of the breather cover.

Doug

[TwoTired]

1. How do I get to the middle two spark plugs?    Is this a common problem? 

It's common for those unfamiliar.  The Honda tool kit spark plug tool works great!  You need a spark plug socket that is belled out where the hex part is.  I've read on the forum where others have gotten a socket from Honda.  Or, even Craftsmen. Do a search or maybe someone will post what they found.

Also, as you can see in the pics below, it looks like my engine is running a little rich and fouling my plugs.

Yep.  Unless you've been doing a lot of idleing with the choke on and dirty airfilter.

2. My electrical problems are uber weird (at least to me).  I plan on using a multimeter to check things closely when I have the chance but here's what I'm getting so far:
   A. The headlight works fine on low but turns off on high. 

There are two filaments in the headlight.  How do you know the hi beam element is still good?  You might also check the dark blue wires inside the headlight housing.

   B. When the bike is on the turn signals only work correctly when the headlight is switched to high, and subsequently off (see A).  Sometimes when the headlight is on low they'll blink once but never more than that.

The flasher unit is voltage sensitive.  Large current loads such as the headlight lower the battery voltage, and moreso when the engine is not running.  These Flashers normally slow down with the headlights on and engine stopped.  They may even stop blinking altogether till the battery achieves a higher state of charge.

   C. When the bike is off the signals work fine no matter what the headlight setting is on.  Could this combination of things lead to a dead generator?  My theory is that if the bike is on and the headlight is pulling power then there's not enough to push out to the turn signals or the turn signal timer thingy which would explain why they work fine when the headlight is off or the bike itself is off.  Any credibility to this thought?

What fun! Recreational speculation!  Have you coordinated your theory with the alignment of the planets?  Or, perhaps how the goat entrails slither on your Tachometer at moonrise?
I've generally taken the dull uninteresting approach of charging the battery and then using a meter to map the voltage vs RPM of the engine, in order to determine if the alternator was working properly.  There is actually a sizeable cult following to this approach.

3. The magnetic switch is rusted pretty heavily on the positive/ground side (see pic below).  If the bike is starting fine is this a non-issue?

Non-issue.  It's a plastic housing.  The rust stain came from somewhere else, I expect.  The nut on that split washer on the left needs tightening, though.

4. I pulled out the air filter tray to get to some of the wires and I noticed that there's a length of tubing attached to the bottom that comes to an end that seems to be ripped (see pic below).  I can find a matching ripped end inside of the bike, does this go to anything?  Also, there's another port on the bottom left hand side that didn't have anything connected to it.  Is that just there for looks? (kidding...

You've identified an oft neglected portion of the bike.  The bottom of the air filter is the crankcase breather and vapor recirculation aparatus.
In your picture, the nipple on the left normally has a right angle fitting and a hose that goes to the top of the cam cover.  This is where it sucks the vapors and any combustion blowby from the engine crankcase so the engine can burn it before mamals can inhale it and form cancer cells.
The tube at the bottom is a water condensation drain tube that is supposed to route to the bottom of the bike between the swing arm and the back of the trans case.  The end if this tube has a rubber cap with a slit in it called a pinch cap.  At the same time that the foam element in the bottom of the filter box is cleaned, that pinch tube is squeezed so that collected condensation can be drained out.
The metal tube inside the filter is the exit for the breather system and is where the carbs are fed what has been scavenged from the engine crankcase.  Chapter 8 of the Honda shop manual covers this device in greater detail.

I highly recommend you obtain the Honda Shop manual for your bike.  You would also benefit from getting the Owners manual, and Honda toolkit for your bike as well.

Cheers,

[doug_id]

In case you don't have these....here is a link to the downloadable 550 docs.

http://www.sohc4.us/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=80&func=select&id=3

[formasfunction]

Thanks for the docs.  I have to admit that I have them (thanks to Csendker) and I consult them but I post here anyway because A. I'm a nervous that I'm going to read it incorrectly and B. I'm worried that something has changed in the 30 years and maybe people are doing things differently now than they were back then (I don't know, that happens in pinball machines that I work on...)

Anyway, I'll try to be more thorough and not rely a bit more on the published knowledge and a little less on mysticism especially towards my electrical system (you mean a swift prayer isn't going to fix my charger, TT?)

But I wanted to post because I drove the bike to work today, the first trip over 10 miles or so, and I'm having some trouble with my transmission.  Things started out smooth enough but after about 15 miles when I shifted down to first I started to hear a fairly loud clunking noise.  Then I could have sworn that it started to "bounce" into neutral.  I'd downshift at a light and feel it go all the way down to first but then I'd feel it push back and magically there I am sitting at a green light in neutral revving the engine.  This had me curious so I started to try to shift into neutral while I was sitting at the lights and it became increasingly difficult to do so to a point the I just couldn't get it in there no matter what I did (I've never had a problem before).  When I was almost to work, about 30miles travelled at this point, it started to get really weird when I sped from a stop and eased into first gear.  A few times it seemed to want to die at first so I started giving it more gas as I eased into the gear but it only worsened until finally, at the last light I stopped at, it started to go into gear - then it clunked loudly - the engine almost died - and then it caught and rocketed me through the left turn I was taking.  From then on I starting using 2nd gear rather than first as I wasn't having any problems with the other gears.  Needless to say the whole thing was a little frightening and is, at this point, a safety issue that I think I need to get worked out before I ride it further than my block again.  A friend of mine says it sounds like it could be an issue with the "fork alignments," does that ring a bell?

[TwoTired]

I'm worried that something has changed in the 30 years and maybe people are doing things differently now than they were back then

You mean people jerry rig some ill engineered, rube goldberg, additions to their machines because they don't believe Honda knew what they were doing 30 years ago?  Is this the "something-has-changed" to which you refer?

If you could go back to 1975 and drive a CB550K off the show room floor through a time portal to 2007, it would still be the reliable machine it always was and work the same way.


   Okay, I just read your demon-possessed-transmission paragraph.    The shift lever has a spring return to move the lever back to a central position.  In first gear position, you can push the lever against the spring and it won't do a thing but spring back.  Lifting up will get you neutral or second depending on how far you make the lever travel.  Shifter operation is explained in the owners manual.

Some of your jumping-out-of-gear behavior could be attributed to a chain with tight spots.  (have you replaced the bad chain and sprockets yet?)  Have you tensioned the chain while is it positioned at the tight spot?)

A dragging clutch (one that does not disengage completely) can create all sorts of transmission issues, some of them permanent.  So, if you wish for your machine to survive, get them sorted quickly.
The first thing to do is verify that the clutch is adjusted properly.  The shop manual explains how to do this properly, even if the information is 30 years old.
Next thing to address is the engine oil level, oil type, viscosity, and oil age, as the clutch is bathed in engine oil, that can effect its operation.  This is where your concerns that things have changed in 30 years become warranted.  As oil formulations HAVE changed in 30 years, automotive oil in particular.  10-40 W is still valid.  But, avoid energy conserving labels oils intended for modern automotive use.  For simplicity sake, use an oil that has motorcycle use labeling in it.  I've read claims on this forum where 20-50W oil helps dragging clutches.  I merely relay this information.  I can't confirm it.  I use 10W-40 in all my Hondas year round.

It may be that adjustments and correct oil conditioning won't fix your shifting issues.  This may then require replacement of warped clutch discs inside the right cover that won't stay flat as the temperature rises, causing clutch drag.

The machine operator can compensate for a mildly dragging clutch without risk to machine or personal anatomy.  The transmission shifts more easily when the wheels are in motion.  Toward that end, make all your gear selections while moving and anticipate when you will need a gear change and make it in advance.  Find first gear before you stop.  If you are stopped, neutral can be found more easily if you rock the bike fore and aft some as you apply gentle pressure to the gear lever.  If the bike is jumping forward when you select ANY gear.  Fix the clutch NOW!

A dragging clutch or one that won't disengage properly can lead to damaged transmission components, shift forks, shift drum, and gear dogs are among them.  These all require engine removal and lower case separation to address and correct.

From the issues you are relaying about your bike, it would appear that it has had an unfortunate maintenance history with some pretty ignorant motorcycle handlers who avoided professional help.  I'd advise you to play "catch-up" quickly, if there is any hope the machine can be made fun and reliable again.

Cheers,

[formasfunction]

Well, I just finished changing my oil an filter and it seems like I can kind of tell a difference during idle.  I tried not to tighten my bolts too much and I think I got the oil filter bolt just right but I felt like I needed to give the main oil bolt one more good push after letting it idle for about 2 mins like the manual said.  Now I'm worried that it might be too tight and months from now I'll never get it off, is there a good way to tell these things?  I'm fairly skinny guy and I didn't put too much weight into the push...  Anyway, the oil definitely looked like it needed to be changed but it wasn't horrible by any means - no sludge to speak of.  I took it for a spin and one thing I noticed that I hadn't noticed before is I'm getting a flappy - slappy - gurgle from the right hand exhaust pipe (4 into 2) when I rev it, reminiscent of my friend's newer Triumph.  No idea where thats coming from (maybe one of the spark plugs or carbs?) but I'm guessing it's independent of my oil change.

Also, since the last time I posted I ordered and installed a replacement speedometer and according to my roommate's corolla it's right on the dot in terms of accuracy.  Finally bought a horn and as soon as I get some bolts I'm going to install that.  A new front sprocket came in the mail today and the rear sprocket, as well as the new chain, should be here in time for the weekend.  Ordered a Uni filter while I was at it and a Speedbleeder since it seems to be all the rave and my front brake was dragging after I took it out on monday.

Things are coming together.  The next thing I'm going to do is replace the fork and brake oils while I wait for my other parts to arrive.

TT - I've searched around and I can't seem to find a Honda kit to get the spark plugs out like you mentioned, other than the original ones that are selling for $150 on ebay.  Were you talking about a standard kit that I could still get at a Honda dealership today?

[csendker]

Spark plugs - try an 18mm Craftsman deep-well socket.

Bolt tightening: Go to your local Harbor Freight/Autozone/Advance Auto/etc and pick up a 3/8" torque wrench.  Even a cheepie is better than guessing.  I'd suggest trying it out on something that is expendable so you get the hang of it before you accidentially snap something you really don't want to.

My front brake was dragging a bit until I changed the fluid and ran it for a bit.  It's typically the rubber piston seal not flexing back. Frequent use may loosen things up a bit.  You can still buy the seals when it comes time for a rebuild.

Sound like you're making good progress.

...and what chain did you end up with?  Stock sprocket tooth count?

[OldSchool_IsCool]

$150 

I think what TT meant was to get a plug wrench LIKE the one in the original tool kit.  They are not a "typical" plug wrench in that they have very thin side walls.  More of a flared out tube then a socket.  I'm pretty sure Sears will have them and definitely a motorcycle shop will.  As for size, you want one with an 18mm hex.  If they say 12mm, they are probably talking about the size of the threads on the plug.  You also want one that is long and has a removable/sliding T-bar.

Here is an example of what you need:

[formasfunction]

Thanks for the advice on the bolt.  I went with the stock configuration on both the front and back sprockets (17/37), bought a NOS front sprocket off of ebay and a JT rear sprocket from a local shop here in town.  For the chain I went for a Tsubaki HSL 530 100 link from Loud Fast and Ugly.

The brakes actually seem to get worse the longer I ride on a single ride, seem to rest a little bit when everything cools down.  I'm definitely going to bleed them first chance I get and probably put a new pad on.

[csendker]

18 mm SP wrenches:

$20 http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/item.aspx?style=8020&department=646&Division=6

$19 http://www.suzukipowersports.com/eshopprod_cat_2406-19111_product_282280.18mm_SPARK_PLUG_SOCKET.htm

$19 http://www.pitposse.com/18spplso.html

$4 http://www.motorcyclefactoryinc.com/eshopprod_cat_2523-10299-10300_product_260236.DOUBLE_END_SPARK_PLUG_WRENCH.htm

...and so on.  I just searched for "18mm spark plug wrench"  I went for the craftsman deep well myself.

Brakes: if they're dragging you're going to be building up a lot of heat and eventually mess things up (warped rotor) in addition to killing your gas milage.  I find that my brakes are very handy in everyday driving,  and properly functioning ones preferred.    You may want to consider a brake rebuild a bit higher on the list of priorities.  In addition to a new piston seal and pads, check the condition of the piston itself.  They typically corrode a bit, particularily around the seal and will 'hang-up'.