Topic: Starter clutch surgery advice needed.

[Twrench]

New member. I'm knee deep in my 1979 650 engine starter clutch overhaul. Engine is out and on a stand. Not splitting the case, I'm going in from the side. Following procedures from a few sources, I'm having trouble sliding the primary shaft out. Oil pan, clutch cover, clutch basket and bearing retainer are all removed. I can slide the primary shaft out about 5mm. before it will go no more. Inside the case, the large gear and its stuff hits the case and stops. Hence the only moving 5mm. The center of the primary gear is threaded 12mm. I installed a bolt, padded the gear inside and GENTLY used a slide hammer on the shaft. Again, no go. Am I missing something ? Is it just stiction ? I can make a shaft puller and brace and protect the gear cluster inside the case.

[bryanj]

Not done a 650 for many years but the 500/550 the shaft should just slide out of the primary gear roller bearing, i do know the 650 has a primary chain tensioner which the others dont so is that holding the gear to one side and stopping it moving?

[Twrench]

Yah, feels like there is a clip or pin hiding. Not a lot of 650 info out there. The forgotten power plant. Taking a break from it today, clean up the shop and look at it with a fresh eye.

[bryanj]

The parts fiche at cmsnl shows an internal cirlip holding some other bits in, go and look

[Twrench]

Thanks. I should have looked at the diagrams before. had a good study on this. I do see the cir clip. Too me, comparing diameters, it looks like the clip(24) is holding gear(4) onto hub( and the primary shaft slides through that mess.
 /honda-cb650-1979-z-usa_model472/partslist/E++15.html

The cb500 looks to have a similar but different clip doing the same thing. Like you said, that shaft just slides out.
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb500k0-four-1971-usa_model459/partslist/E++15.html

I did make a puller and had no success. Could the carnage in the starter clutch bind on the splines or wedge in ?
Her's a few pics of the clutch. Really appreciate the help. Maybe this will be informative too someone.

[bryanj]

The ciclip on the 500 is external and holds the cush drive together, the 650 one is listed as internal so dont know.
The rollers, caps and springs should not be able to get to the shaft as they are between the starter gear and outer clutch hub.
On the 650 fiche it shows a shim and 2 half clips inboard of that internal clip so i wonder if it holds the two half rings into a groove.
I dont have a 650 manual only 500 and 550 ones

[bryanj]

I managed to find an online manual and hopefully the relevant page is below

[bryanj]

Found it at Honda 4-stroke.net
Bit of a faf to register but free and downloaded ok

[Twrench]

Appreciate the confirmation about the starter clutch and doing some research on this. My Clymers (which can leave out info sometimes) also says the shaft should slide out. No hidden clips. So... I'm leaving my puller under tension and will check and crank it up a notch later.  Messed up/tight spline for factory ? Even busting the case still requires the shaft too come out. Challenges are a learning process.

[Twrench]

See, primary chain tensioner spring release. Not in Clymers ! I'll try it.

[Twrench]

Spring released and no change. Stuck ! I'll post if it cuts loose.

[bryanj]

I believe Clymer is now owned by Haynes and in a lot of cases they are very usefull for starting bonfires, if kept dry

[rotortiller]

http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb650/service_manual/SM65079_10.pdf

[Twrench]

Thanks for the pdf ! I've washed the grime off of my hands 7 times today. Weld up a better slide hammer anchor tomorrow and attempt it again.

[bryanj]

I have just found my genuine workshop paper copy with the extra supplements, you can have it cheap but shipping from UK toUS wont be cheap as its heavy!

[Twrench]

SUCCESS ! Always nice when something works and to rap up a "help needed" thread. I ripped 2 wooden shims to brace and protect the gear. Otherwise it smacks the case. 12 mm fine thread bolt welded onto a 3/8" coupler, attached to the 2 lb. slide hammer. Didn't exactly slide easily. A 5 lb. slide hammer would have been better. Took a great deal of force to the very end. But, job partially done. On to the starter clutch. Thanks for all who helped.

[bryanj]

Youre welcome

[Twrench]

Starter clutch extra bits rattling around. All broken springs, drums and rollers were accounted for. In the outer end of the body tunnels are 3 bits that are loose, sideways and can be spun around by a pokey tool. no mention of these in any manuals or searches. To me they look like spring seats. They can be oriented with the cone end in but will not drop into the tunnel. Are they supposed to be pressed in the tunnels and have detached ? Find a new clutch body ? Thanks again.

[HondaMan]

Yeow! That's ugly.
Looks like a new(er) part needed. Sadly, I only have one valve for a 650, nothing else on hand, sorry!

[bryanj]

Yes replace

[kerryb]

I did this repair a couple years ago.  That shaft slid out rather easy for me.  I got my replacement from a honda atc125 on ebay.

[bryanj]

If you go to cmsnl and create a free account you can look up the part and then it will give you the option of seeing what other bikes use the part so you can trace on fleabay, without the account it only shows the first 10 and i think that clutch fits over 40

[rotortiller]

If you had to beat the piss out of that bearing to remove it with the slide hammer it might be a good idea to fetch a new one. If you simply beat the snot out of it, same thing lol!

[Oddjob]

The part in question is a 650 specific part. The 500/550 is a lot different.

One on Ebay if that's any help.

https://www.ebay.com/p/1511826690

[bryanj]

The starter clutch does fit other Hondas but not the fours