Topic: Is Oil Consumption Typical of K1 Head?

[PeWe]

This problem seems to be related to early heads with HD studs and/or MLS gaskets?

The other thread with a CB750  K0.
Head with no ex guide seals + MLS with small oil return holes.

This case however, can be the way too low torque of 17 lbs, 22lbs will seal.
Maybe a re-torque only will fix it.
But when engine must be pulled better to be sure.

Dynoman sell with large oil return holes that match all cylinders.

https://www.dynoman.net/bikepages/sohc/gaskets-head.html
If have ordered gaskets from them. Ordered a bunch last time for various bores. Shipping cost some to me so better to order for future use.
Still special price for 970cc, thin MLS   29.95 when I ordered a few 

Here a photo of MLS with large return holes on early cylinder with smaller return holes.

[Finnigan]

Went ahead and got a stockpile of 823 gaskets in case I don't reuse the MLS.  Headed to the shops tonight to get some steel to make an attachment to remove the engine with a crane and 1 person.

I spoke with a friend down the road who recently redid a sandcastle and he said he used the same HD studs with a stock head gasket and has no oil issues or smoke. 

First thing I'm going to do is check the torque after removing the valve cover.  But plans change and I might remove to check the hole sizes and/or replace the gasket all together.

Thanks for the advice!  I'm gonna get this thing running the way it should if it kills me 

[PeWe]

Redo things is one reason I do not use sealer on gaskets

[seanbarney41]

This problem seems to be related to early heads with HD studs and/or MLS gaskets?

The other thread with a CB750  K0.
Head with no ex guide seals + MLS with small oil return holes.

This case however, can be the way too low torque of 17 lbs, 22lbs will seal.
Maybe a re-torque only will fix it.
But when engine must be pulled better to be sure.

Dynoman sell with large oil return holes that match all cylinders.

https://www.dynoman.net/bikepages/sohc/gaskets-head.html
If have ordered gaskets from them. Ordered a bunch last time for various bores. Shipping cost some to me so better to order for future use.
Still special price for 970cc, thin MLS   29.95 when I ordered a few 

Here a photo of MLS with large return holes on early cylinder with smaller return holes.

I have 836 K1 did not use MLS gasket or heavy duty studs, exhaust valves have no stem seals.  I put about 1200 back road burning miles on it this summer in mostly 100 mile chunks and noticed no burning oil.

[Finnigan]

Thanks for the info, good motivation for me to find the 'smoking gun'...pun intended 

[scottly]

My K1 engine is also an 836 that I put together with stock studs and standard composition type head gasket. After I put it together, I immediately took it on a 3000+ mile ride from San Luis Obispo, CA to Colorado Springs, CO, and back. That was 45 years ago. It's been ridden hard and put up wet, been on three Relays, and had over 100 dyno pulls since then, and I have never had the top end apart again since that first time in 1979.

[PeWe]

Again, a frame kit makes it much easier.
Tighten the head nuts only as a starter and ride.

Overtightened head nuts due to a bad torque wrench was my reason to cut frame and install Franks frame kit. Replacing all HD studs.
I have lost the count how many times that has helped me changed cams, re-timed cams, lifted head and cylinders etc.

[Finnigan]

Its been a minute, got the bike officially on the road yesterday and what a ride it was.

- Pulled engine and went through the top end, confirmed all cylinders had some amount of oil burning and/or coming out of the exhaust ports
- I got the head and cam on the bench and turned it for sanity checks on everything and found that the high lift Daytona cam was pushing the valve relief cuts for the keepers slightly below the top of the exhaust guides, making a cup of oil that got past where oil is supposed to be
- called cycleX with my findings and they fitted with high lift, high flow, exhaust vales with seals

Engine back in the bike and carbs synced and what a difference, no more smoke and much easier to start from cold.  Not sure if its my imagination but feels more responsive when I blip the throttle where before it was fast but needed to be wound up to 7k to really feel it.

[MRieck]

Its been a minute, got the bike officially on the road yesterday and what a ride it was.

- Pulled engine and went through the top end, confirmed all cylinders had some amount of oil burning and/or coming out of the exhaust ports
- I got the head and cam on the bench and turned it for sanity checks on everything and found that the high lift Daytona cam was pushing the valve relief cuts for the keepers slightly below the top of the exhaust guides, making a cup of oil that got past where oil is supposed to be
- called cycleX with my findings and they fitted with high lift, high flow, exhaust vales with seals

Engine back in the bike and carbs synced and what a difference, no more smoke and much easier to start from cold.  Not sure if its my imagination but feels more responsive when I blip the throttle where before it was fast but needed to be wound up to 7k to really feel it.

Do you mean high lift valve GUIDES with seals??
  Early exhaust guides don't tolerate extra lift well secondary to the high scrapper taper. I only use Yamiya guides now and cut a groove .080 above the stock groove so they sit lower in the head....at that point they will work with any cam up to .430 lift.  They are the best iron guides I've seen bar none and the price is very reasonable.
 77/78 K/F stock guides will handle more lift secondary to the more conventional keeper groove.
 The stock late models guides will tolerate about .375 lift before the large groove did below the seal and that is using OEM Honda seals (the later brown Viton seals). Aftermarket seals sit higher and tolerate less lift. I think I've seen everything with 750 guides and seals.
 Any guide with a seal will keep oil out of the ports infinitely better than a non-seal guide.

[Finnigan]

Yes, guides with seals