Author Topic: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??  (Read 1563 times)

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Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2024, 06:16:20 AM »
You must dress down some alloy welds though?

I had a broken fin repaired recently and he made it out of weld and then shaped it to match the rest of the fins. It was extremely well done and after coating I struggle to spot which one was done.

Offline calj737

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2024, 06:51:47 AM »
That is an aesthetic weld, not a structural weld. Different apple altogether.

Prior to polishing, the repair will be very distinguishable since the base alloy is not known, therefore the filler material can only be subjective 4043, maybe 4047. These will show up uniquely against vintage cast alloys in the raw.

And no, aluminum welds are not strong by their nature so the weld bead is never ground down if strength is an issue.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Rayzerman

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2024, 08:00:43 AM »
What's terribly funny is the lack of appreciation for what "casting alloys" constituted 40+ years ago. You will never know with any degree of certainty about the metalurgical composition of these parts. Heck, it could easily have wandered slightly from batch-to-batch, model-to-model, year-to-year.

Obviously every manufacturer changes their processes and materials as time and volumes change. If the early 750K bikes were low production, then more hand time could have been spent and lesser quality alloy used. As demand increased and production numbers flourished, more stable choices for alloys would have been chosen to limit bad production runs and to reduce "handwork" for cosmetic repairs prior to shipping. Nature of manufacturing.

I personally have never seen a vintage alloy engine part (car, truck, plane motor, or motorcycle engine) that was "polished". Never. I'm not saying they didn't exist, but I've never seen one. And I have eyeballed Pebble Beach restores of some 8 figure resotration of European top flight doozies during their restoration and post. I've had extensive exposure to DuPont's restoration and collection and there has never been a polished part resembling the work reflected here. Sure, they have been blasted, vapor honed, tumbled, etc to get a decent luster, but never a high polish.

And to my recollection, Vic has never produced a polished restoration either?

Having said all that, I prefer the high polished result. But I am not interested in a Concours restoration. I prefer "better than" original because time and experience provide wisdom and choices for improvement. To each their own. Love them, pamper them, flog them, whatever. But for God's sake, ride the dogs!t out of them and enjoy them!

This and a couple of other comments kinda sums it up for me.  A local friend has a CB350F he's owned since nearly new.  It now has 9000 kms. on it, always stored inside and he restores vintage Hondas.  His Rickman is perfect.  However, I inspected his bike to determine what the original looked like.  I would say the engine covers are not polished, and were likely tumbled or somewhat polished to some level, then clearcoated.  Over time his clearcoat has "patina", and certainly does not look polished.  My direction though is to polish to high shine level.  I think it just sets the bike apart and folks will appreciate what it took to get there.

From my 30 years of automotive experience, all castings have porosity and they do take measures to minimize it.  In high pressure situations, they actually inject a resin into the casting to fill the porosity... well, these don't need that, but the beadblasting has revealed a few pock marks... I would only lightly sand so far.... pock marks can be polished, and stand back 3 feet and you'll barely notice them.  And if you do, you'll think that's OK.  And I'm a bit OCD but accept that absolute perfection is not possible given what we're working with.

I have looked at 550's and 750's of different years.... the processes evolved, they are not necessarily the same as the CB350F.... all good.  Yes, do what lets you sleep at night and it'll  look great regardless.

If you look at a Yamaha FJR rear differential, you will see lines on the surface that appear to be cracks.. several have asked what to do about them.  What they are is shrinkage lines as the casting cools... I can only imagine vintage Honda castings may have looked that way and needed a quick cleanup to get rid of the lines... They are actually above the surface, not below it, so if one was sanding it wouldn't take much at all to make them disappear...... Yamaha chose not to, and it's just a "normal" appearance, they are not rough and I'm guessing powdercoated.  Looks OK to me.....  just a thought.....

Offline willbird

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2024, 03:23:13 PM »


I personally have never seen a vintage alloy engine part (car, truck, plane motor, or motorcycle engine) that was "polished". Never. I'm not saying they didn't exist, but I've never seen one. And I have eyeballed Pebble Beach restores of some 8 figure resotration of European top flight doozies during their restoration and post. I've had extensive exposure to DuPont's restoration and collection and there has never been a polished part resembling the work reflected here. Sure, they have been blasted, vapor honed, tumbled, etc to get a decent luster, but never a high polish.

And to my recollection, Vic has never produced a polished restoration either?

Having said all that, I prefer the high polished result. But I am not interested in a Concours restoration. I prefer "better than" original because time and experience provide wisdom and choices for improvement. To each their own. Love them, pamper them, flog them, whatever. But for God's sake, ride the dogs!t out of them and enjoy them!



From my 30 years of automotive experience, all castings have porosity and they do take measures to minimize it.  In high pressure situations, they actually inject a resin into the casting to fill the porosity... well, these don't need that, but the beadblasting has revealed a few pock marks... I would only lightly sand so far.... pock marks can be polished, and stand back 3 feet and you'll barely notice them.  And if you do, you'll think that's OK.  And I'm a bit OCD but accept that absolute perfection is not possible given what we're working with.




For about 5 years I worked for a company that did pre machining on GM I4 and I5 heads and blocks. The pre machining was what they called "hyper cubing" and the intent was to allow a full leak test of high and low pressure oil and other areas right adjacent to the foundry location where the lost foam casting process parts were made.

Gross leakers were sorted out and GM inspected those pretty quick, some degree of leak went through the wall to be "impreg" with resin, then re tested, if they again leaked they got a second impreg, the goal was to eliminate that eventually and just do one impreg and retest, scrap if they failed.From time to time they would have some machining feature that exposed a leak on final machining so they would have us do something like add that one M6x1.0 drilled and tapped hope for a time to expose that leak and find a foundry fix to cure the issue.

The tech side of that stuff was all pretty interesting :-).

Bill

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2024, 09:01:06 AM »
I might have been misunderstood when talking  about these pieces being Polished from the factory.

To me the word polish is not just to a mirror finish level.there are different levels of polishing. A mirror finish being an RA00 is like a mirror.

I worked at the Boeing company and we would "poliish" stainless a d aluminium. To different levels and compare them to a standard color chip. I tried to find a picture of the different color chips to no avail. We never polished to a RA 00 as it is to hard to take care of and touch up when in service.

So when I see that 2 mile 750 I posted pics of above and my unrestored bikes.  This is what they looked like when new.

So we can call the less than mirror finish "brushed" with a very fine grit but still bright and shiny and has a degree of reflection.

In my restorations I try to mimic the original look by polishing with a compound with grit in it.

Another Pic below of the 2 mile 750
« Last Edit: December 11, 2024, 09:06:10 AM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline calj737

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2024, 10:20:05 AM »
I never owned a “from new 1970” Honda in the early ‘70s so I can’t attest or reject what they looked like new. What I will say is, regardless of what a claim is (restored, unrestored, etc) and regardless of actual mileage, you have no evidence of what has actually occurred in the life of a vehicle not in your own care from “new”.

And the definition of “restored, original, and unrestored” are very subjective to 95%+ of folks. So take any and every claim with a massive grain of salt.

Whatever that bike’s history (pictured) it’s very lovely.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Floshenbarnical

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2024, 11:09:49 AM »
I stripped all my covers and polished them with the 3-stage kit from Caswell with their buffing wheels on a corded high-speed drill. They looked like mirrors. Then they sat for 6 months and got a little cloudy so I brightened them up with a rag and Autosol and then rebuffed with a rag and the cream polish from the 3-stage kit. I didn’t know waxing them to protect them afterward was an option. I feel like the heat from the engine would make the wax all drop off? I guess idk how it works
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Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2024, 11:21:08 AM »
I never owned a “from new 1970” Honda in the early ‘70s so I can’t attest or reject what they looked like new. What I will say is, regardless of what a claim is (restored, unrestored, etc) and regardless of actual mileage, you have no evidence of what has actually occurred in the life of a vehicle not in your own care from “new”.

And the definition of “restored, original, and unrestored” are very subjective to 95%+ of folks. So take any and every claim with a massive grain of salt.

Whatever that bike’s history (pictured) it’s very lovely.

Here Is a dealer brochure from 1976.

This is what they looked like new.

Look at the fork tubes,valve cover and Dymo cover. Beautiful!
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Online Don R

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2024, 11:28:22 AM »
 One thing is for sure, if you make them too shiny to suit your delicate sensitivities, it's extremely easy to dull them up a little! 
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
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Offline Rayzerman

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2024, 01:36:02 PM »
Since I have options, I could use toothpaste as it has a grit in it... at least to see what it would look like, and it would give a texture for clearcoat to stick to (provided I rinsed well first).

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2024, 01:59:51 PM »
Shark hide. It’s most durable treatment and is extremely widely used in the marine industry where boats and trailers are subjected to the most extreme conditions. Other products may work, nothing works better.

new kid on the block....

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2024, 02:12:01 PM »
Since I have options, I could use toothpaste as it has a grit in it... at least to see what it would look like, and it would give a texture for clearcoat to stick to (provided I rinsed well first).

This may be a first!  LOL
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #62 on: December 11, 2024, 03:16:10 PM »
Hope he doesn't use his wife's toothbrush.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2024, 06:23:23 PM »
Shark hide. It’s most durable treatment and is extremely widely used in the marine industry where boats and trailers are subjected to the most extreme conditions. Other products may work, nothing works better.

new kid on the block....

This looks real good.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2024, 06:49:05 PM »
Actually for polished alloy surfaces it recommends Metal Jacket XL.

Might try some, can’t see a price though.

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2024, 07:27:32 PM »
Looks like good stuff.. wondering if it can be sprayed on?

Looking at the MSDS it's a polypropylene coating.that dries hard  it also contains Isocyanic acid which is a catalyst. Used in 2K paints

Google answer..
Metal Jacket XL" is a protective coating primarily used on aluminum surfaces, particularly in marine applications, designed to prevent oxidation and corrosion while also providing a slick, water-repellent finish; it dries to a hard, durable film once applied, effectively protecting the metal from the elements.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2024, 07:53:16 PM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2024, 07:47:02 PM »
Actually for polished alloy surfaces it recommends Metal Jacket XL.

Might try some, can’t see a price though.

I had sprayed Duplicolor clear lacquer on nicely polished cast aluminum and it didn't like to adhere much,wanted to run-off a bit.
Curious if that Metal Jacket will adhere to cast aluminum which is polished.. says so.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Rayzerman

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #67 on: December 12, 2024, 07:03:31 PM »
Hope he doesn't use his wife's toothbrush.

Offline grcamna2

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75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2024, 05:32:53 AM »
I've tried standard toothpaste on car headlights using a 3" damp orbital pad. yeah, it worked.....