Author Topic: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??  (Read 1663 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2024, 04:34:36 PM »
Simichrome. In my experience, nothing else works like it: I Simichromed my front forks, for example, in 1972. They still look like I just did them, and I've not done any more than high-pressure car washes on it since then.

I once saw some engine cases that were polished and then Simichromed after. I could see myself in that engine, like a mirror, while I reassembled it. It took all honors in the show (in California, no less) where the bike was entered the following Summer.

I have half a dozen other polishes, although by now they are all past date and need to be pitched out. Those labels include Mother's and some of the other popular ones, by they just didn't measure up to Simichrome's results, for me.
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Offline Rayzerman

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2024, 05:46:22 PM »
Thank you one and all, great info guys and variety is the spice of life...... so, I'm starting off with glass bead #13 blasted parts.  It does bring out the flawed areas like some pock marks where the casting wasn't perfect and those will need a little sanding before polishing... bead blaster guy recommended wet sanding an I agree, so will work my way up in grits (whatever it takes to get rid of them).  Those areas aren't big, just need a little attention.. the bead blasting is like a matte finishing..... to be honest I have not started, I wanted opinions of the collective wisdom here first... I had originally thought I was going to go with 2K clear, but would have to have my batch prepped up first.... a mix of 2K has to be used up in hours or a day at most.  I don't have a booth, so maybe would farm it out...... At this point I think 2K is off my list.

I have an 8" grinder style buffer, variable speed, and have the various compounds.  Already did the carb covers, and I so have some extra covers to practice on... but I'm pretty good at it so far.  Shouldn't need extensive Dremel work, it's amazing where I can get into with the big buffer, including some tight spots.  The CB350F parts aren't really all that complicated... I guarantee they will be shiny and I am going for the polished look.

I haven't taken my fork lowers for blasting.. extensive sanding, and actual filing in places was required to get out some gouges and casting flaws.... I expect bead blasting will expose more flaws..... so I'm just going to work my way up in sanding grits and start polishing from there.

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2024, 06:05:31 PM »
800 mile unrestored CB350F.

I would call the clutch cover polished

Sorry but that to me has been polished, for instance it no longer matches the dipstick which is the standard colour for Honda cases. If you can see a reflection then it's been polished, generally you can't see a reflection at all.

Sorry but this bike has never been touched , especially taking off the clutch cover off to polish. It is a time capsule to what they looked like new
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2024, 06:08:29 PM »
Be aware that removing the lacquer and paint can expose what Honda was hiding. Sometimes there are holes in the surface where air bubbles rose to the surface as it cooled, sometimes they almost made it but lie just below the surface and as you sand you expose them. Trying to get rid of them can be a nightmare, sometimes you succeed and sometimes you don’t. Be prepared to live with them if they haven’t gone after some work. I’ve actually sanded completely through a sprocket cover off a 500 as the corrosion was so bad and I was determined to get rid of the holes. TBH I strongly suspected it was a lost cause before I started but sometimes I can’t resist the challenge.

Ozzy, have you owned it from new?

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2024, 07:16:26 PM »
+1 on the "things hidden" by Honda!
I've even seen them filled in with [something] after the years removed the paint, making them look pitted. I guess they were just barely-acceptable castings at the time? Mostly I saw this on the late K0 and along the K1 era bikes, which was the peak sales periods.

I'm getting excited to see how your 350F comes out: I have one in less-than-marginal condition in my shed that I dream of doing to like you're doing to yours. The CB350F (and its little brother the 250F) are, IMHO, the most novel bikes Honda ever produced, and their styling is a commentary on the 1970s era of cool cars and bikes.
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Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2024, 07:56:02 PM »
Ozzy, have you owned it from new?
[/quote]

I have not owned it since new. My dad bought me a brand new CB360T when I was 14. I traded  it for a 1976 CB750F IN 1978. Our neighbor bought it new and rode it 2x and dropped it both times.it had 45 miles on it. Buggered up the Dymo cover and I replaced it with a new one from Honda. It was polished and perfect.
I have a fascination with unrestored original bikes. If the covers were not painted with cloud silver they were polished not to a mirror finish and clearcoted.

Check out this 2 mile CB750F sold on BAT awhile back
 The Valve cover, wheel hubs fork bottoms, dymo cover chain cover,and clutch cover behind the chrome was polished and clearcoated

No Reserve: 2-Mile 1971 Honda CB750 for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $25,500 on November 5, 2020 (Lot #38,787) | Bring a Trailer
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-honda-cb750k2/

There are plenty more examples out there including some in my collection.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2024, 08:01:34 PM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2024, 09:26:58 PM »
Ozzybud, I never said the original finish was not shiny.  Just that most of that shine comes from the clearcoat.  And yes, bikes that somehow escaped the ravages of time look great.  But that is not what polishers do.  I am sure that these parts recieved some level of prep between raw casting and final clear coat.  It's easy to see that the manufacturing process was not very thorough on tough to get at spots and spots that are not right out in the open.  Take a look at the side of the fork legs closest to the wheel sometime.
If it works good, it looks good...

Online M 750K6

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2024, 09:45:38 PM »
Oddjob's results are stunning.

My experience with the Honda bright alloys (forks, hubs/drum and engine side covers) is they are not of the same quality as on my Norton. I get mirror shine on the Norton, without tools. The Honda needed tools to get it looking good, but still not as good as the Norton.

'Modern' mass production vs., by then, traditional 'cottage industry'? But the Honda's still good, weathered the last 50 years better than I have! I've done more miles though  :)

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2024, 11:06:08 PM »
Following.
I like the product that polishes and keeps it protected from the elements,as I park my bike outside under a cover. Which one is recommended ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
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Online M 750K6

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2024, 02:42:47 AM »
Elbow grease.

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2024, 03:45:50 AM »
Ozzy, have you owned it from new?

I have not owned it since new. My dad bought me a brand new CB360T when I was 14. I traded  it for a 1976 CB750F IN 1978. Our neighbor bought it new and rode it 2x and dropped it both times.it had 45 miles on it. Buggered up the Dymo cover and I replaced it with a new one from Honda. It was polished and perfect.
I have a fascination with unrestored original bikes. If the covers were not painted with cloud silver they were polished not to a mirror finish and clearcoted.

Check out this 2 mile CB750F sold on BAT awhile back
 The Valve cover, wheel hubs fork bottoms, dymo cover chain cover,and clutch cover behind the chrome was polished and clearcoated

No Reserve: 2-Mile 1971 Honda CB750 for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $25,500 on November 5, 2020 (Lot #38,787) | Bring a Trailer
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-honda-cb750k2/

There are plenty more examples out there including some in my collection.
[/quote]

pics...original, unrestored....no sanding, refinishing, re-coating.....10,800 miles.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 03:47:45 AM by jlh3rd »

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2024, 07:07:55 AM »
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on the subject. That to me just looks like a good spray job, it's too consistent, it's the same look in places you'd really struggle to get any polishing equipment in (my stuff is a good example, it's not as bright in the hard to reach areas) it's also too consistent across the range, buy a new cover, looks exactly the same as the old cover, you don't get that with polishing. Maybe the casting was in better condition than other castings and that's why it looks better than others? We'll never know unless Honda tells us how they were done and I doubt they'll do that. Plus as Mark says, it allowed them to use less than perfect covers as the paint hid all the imperfections, like bog on a tank. I've seen bikes come out of crate with sand under the paint, it's amazing how much gets past QC.

Not sure if the 350F comment was directed at me or not Mark but mines a 500 not a 350 with quite a few 550F2 parts on it, I picked the best of both models.

M750K6, you are correct. Honda used poor quality alloy, I joke it's most likely got some Toyko express paper in there, good quality alloy can be harder to shine up BUT it keeps it shine far far longer than Japanese alloy does. Harley alloy for instance is incredibly hard and takes some smoothing but it shines like hell when you get it right. I did some pieces for a mate and they came out great even though the condition wasn't great to start with.

Offline calj737

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2024, 07:29:15 AM »
What's terribly funny is the lack of appreciation for what "casting alloys" constituted 40+ years ago. You will never know with any degree of certainty about the metalurgical composition of these parts. Heck, it could easily have wandered slightly from batch-to-batch, model-to-model, year-to-year.

Obviously every manufacturer changes their processes and materials as time and volumes change. If the early 750K bikes were low production, then more hand time could have been spent and lesser quality alloy used. As demand increased and production numbers flourished, more stable choices for alloys would have been chosen to limit bad production runs and to reduce "handwork" for cosmetic repairs prior to shipping. Nature of manufacturing.

I personally have never seen a vintage alloy engine part (car, truck, plane motor, or motorcycle engine) that was "polished". Never. I'm not saying they didn't exist, but I've never seen one. And I have eyeballed Pebble Beach restores of some 8 figure resotration of European top flight doozies during their restoration and post. I've had extensive exposure to DuPont's restoration and collection and there has never been a polished part resembling the work reflected here. Sure, they have been blasted, vapor honed, tumbled, etc to get a decent luster, but never a high polish.

And to my recollection, Vic has never produced a polished restoration either?

Having said all that, I prefer the high polished result. But I am not interested in a Concours restoration. I prefer "better than" original because time and experience provide wisdom and choices for improvement. To each their own. Love them, pamper them, flog them, whatever. But for God's sake, ride the dogs!t out of them and enjoy them!
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Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2024, 08:17:04 AM »
It's all good Oddjob.  I just know my urestored original bikes have aluminum parts that are still stunning after 50+ years and look consistent with bikes sold with low miles on BAT and other sites.

Maybe you got all the seconds on your side. Of the pond!
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline Don R

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2024, 09:55:11 AM »
 A wise man once said aluminum seems to be made of dirt. The more you polish it, the more dirt comes out. In the end, you re-finish it until you are either satisfied or give up.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
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Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2024, 10:08:16 AM »
Here's a comment that bound to provoke some reaction.

I've done a LOT of fork sliders in recent years. When you're looking at something for hours on end you start to spot stuff that you probably wouldn't otherwise.

I'm convinced the sliders were not cast complete. Stuff like the mudguard mounts were welded on afterwards, the bottom of the slider itself looks to have been welded into place as well, the caliper adjuster mount (500/550) certainly looks like another weld job. I can actually see the difference in the colour of the alloy where the welds are, the mudguard mounts appear to have been tubes just welded on and then the end has been filled with alloy weld, it's why IMO that area differs on almost every slider, you never get 2 identical and if it was cast you would, I think. The welding itself (if it is indeed welding) is superb, and clearly extremely strong. One day when I get a ruined slider I'm going to cut it open on the joints and see if I can spot anything.

Anyone also spotted this odd thing? or am I barking up the wrong tree.

Offline calj737

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2024, 10:25:47 AM »
Would love to see an unrestored picture of what you're describing. Polishing would make identification pretty difficult.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2024, 10:43:04 AM »
Would love to see an unrestored picture of what you're describing. Polishing would make identification pretty difficult.

Look at the pictures of  the 2 mile CB750 I posted above. Or the pic of the CB550F that is posted above by @Jlh3rd
« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 10:46:18 AM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline calj737

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2024, 11:34:43 AM »
Would love to see an unrestored picture of what you're describing. Polishing would make identification pretty difficult.

Look at the pictures of  the 2 mile CB750 I posted above. Or the pic of the CB550F that is posted above by @Jlh3rd
Insufficient detail to substantitate your claim. I did however look at Fezzler's 550 forks, and they aboslutely are a single casting, sans welds.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186399.msg2221229.html#msg2221229
Please see what you think.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2024, 12:32:12 PM »
Would love to see an unrestored picture of what you're describing. Polishing would make identification pretty difficult.

Look at the pictures of  the 2 mile CB750 I posted above. Or the pic of the CB550F that is posted above by @Jlh3rd
Insufficient detail to substantitate your claim. I did however look at Fezzler's 550 forks, and they aboslutely are a single casting, sans welds.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186399.msg2221229.html#msg2221229
Please see what you think.

My mistake,  I thought we were talking about side covers
Not  the welding  question.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 12:58:43 PM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2024, 01:19:11 PM »
I’ve got some sliders prepped ready for polishing, so I’ll see if the seams stand out on those, sometimes though it’s not easy to see the different colours of the alloy with a camera whereas it’s easy with the human eye. Take a really close look at where these parts are coming off the main tube, sometimes you can seem to see the pattern of a weld in there.

It’s the part where they fill in the end of the mudguard tubes that really stand out, they look slightly different on each one and you’d expect some consistency if it was moulded.

Offline calj737

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2024, 01:23:25 PM »
Would love to see an unrestored picture of what you're describing. Polishing would make identification pretty difficult.

Look at the pictures of  the 2 mile CB750 I posted above. Or the pic of the CB550F that is posted above by @Jlh3rd
Insufficient detail to substantitate your claim. I did however look at Fezzler's 550 forks, and they aboslutely are a single casting, sans welds.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186399.msg2221229.html#msg2221229
Please see what you think.

My mistake,  I thought we were talking about side covers
Not  the welding  question.
That’s because my comment was directed to Oddjob referencing welded sliders. All good-
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline calj737

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2024, 01:26:50 PM »
I’ve got some sliders prepped ready for polishing, so I’ll see if the seams stand out on those, sometimes though it’s not easy to see the different colours of the alloy with a camera whereas it’s easy with the human eye. Take a really close look at where these parts are coming off the main tube, sometimes you can seem to see the pattern of a weld in there.

It’s the part where they fill in the end of the mudguard tubes that really stand out, they look slightly different on each one and you’d expect some consistency if it was moulded.
If you look at the sliders in Fezzler’s post, you can clearly see they are fully cast, no welds. The simple evidence is the shape of the mounting bungs being sculpted and concave in areas. If they were welded they would be convex. No two ways around it.

As for slight differences in the outcome after polishing, that can easily be attributed to specious alloy molten material and possibly any machining done post production. Or decades of grime infiltrating a very porous material.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2024, 07:51:33 PM »
That’s a good point. I don’t know enough about alloy welding to say otherwise. Could the welds be dressed down?

I’m curious as to why there is an inconsistency in the way the ends of these tubes appear, and also the end of the 8mm calliper mount bolt hole appear to be blobs of weld, they should be quite rounded in appearance but when you start to sand these they show lots of recesses and holes that aren’t consistent with moulding. That’s what made me look closer at them, maybe they were the actual injection moulding points and were dressed up after being cut out of the mould there. You see lots of those just left rough on a Honda, you can still see the saw blade marks on some.

Offline calj737

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2024, 04:31:30 AM »
You don’t “dress down” aluminum welds if you want them to survive. And the sculpting would take hours per set. Not a reality for production inexpensive motorcycles.

The porosity you encounter is from casting alloy. It’s nearly impossible to prevent air pockets from being entrained which is why forged aluminum is used when strength matters.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis