Topic: New project- Guzzi NTX650

[Tim2005]

I've been looking for one of these for ages and finally got my hands on one this week, it's a rare 1987 Moto Guzzi NTX650. These were never imported to the UK at the time as their plastic tank wasn't legal then, but a handful have bee imported privately since then. This one looks rather rough but apparently mechanically is ok, it certainly needs a good clean which I'll hopefully get onto tomorrow. The rough plan for this project is to get it running & ride it a bit, to make sure it's ok and I like it, then sort out the cosmetics- full paint job etc., though I'm curious to try out wrapping so that may happen.

I'll try to update this one as I go. My last  2 projects were a BMW R100RS which I did a write up on it after I'd sorted it out, and a Kawa H1 which was never meant to be a project, the auction's claim of it being restored wasn't too true and I ended up discovering loads of work to do.

[Tim2005]

Here's what it would have looked like originally.

[Kelly E]

That's a cool bike. Moto Guzzi motors have a bunch of torque. Our 90' Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans tries to throw itself over on the right side if you blip the throttle at the stoplight.

[simon#42]

interesting bike cant say ive ever seen one before . im afraid you might find it heavy off road and a bit slow on the road . hope im wrong .

[MauiK3]

I've never seen that one!

[Stev-o]

Subscribed, always wanted a Guzzi! 

Can't find one for sale here in the States, guess it was not imported here?

[Tim2005]

A bit of progress to report. I cleaned it at the weekend twice, it seriously needed it, the amount of ingrained grime was amazing. I gave it a good go with various detergents on Saturday, then took it for a ride later, then cleaned it again with traffic film remover on Sunday. Looks better now, the wheel rims are particularly good, I didn't discover much else either, other than spotting that the speedo drive is  free moving & only stopped from spinning with the wheel by the cable anchoring it. Bit odd that.

I gave it a check over- all fluids ok, oil looks fairly fresh, front master cylinder lid hasn't been off for years, I was relieved when I got the 2 seized Philips screws undone without damage. All chassis bearings seem good. Fork tube chrome is really good. Calipers aren't seized, that makes a change for me. 
 
Riding. Ok it's a sod to start from cold. Sometimes. But I'm onto that, I think it is due to several problems with the choke cables, plungers & lever.  The engine sounds good, rides well and pulls up to 80+ swiftly, though doesn't feel very right at all low down, I suspect the throttle cables are miles out of sync. The clutch works aok too, and I was pleased to discover all gears are present, after my project BMW's test ride a couple of years ago discovered that it had a neutral instead of 5th.

 The handling felt dismal though, most unpleasant turning into corners, the tyres are pretty worn and a check of the date codes shows them as 2003 vintage. I work with people younger than that. So new ones are called for.

Also called for is some electrical attention- check out the battery terminals in the photo. If you look closely at the +ve one you may be able to see that extension/ busbar has 4 or 5 wires attached to it.  All the more exciting for there being no insulation and no fuses.

[BenelliSEI]

Nice find! There is a book written by a UK based fellow who travelled all over the world on one of those. I met him at a bike show and have a signed copy of his book. Probably +10 years ago. I’ll look for my copy….. Anyone else remember this?

[Tim2005]

I've not heard of that book at all, let me know if you find its name, that'd be great to read.

Simon, regarding weight etc, it's rated at 170kg dry and 48bhp so lighter than a CB400F and 10 more bhp, which is promising. It'll be road use mostly, I've a Beta 250 for offroading.  I was after a middleweight twin cylinder trailie as an all rounder bike and there aren't many old ones. I did consider a more modern Multistrada 620, even test rode one, they are loads of fun to ride but the finish quality and electronics are typical Ducati. Looking at older stuff I tried a mate's Transalp- that was ridiculously heavy (as per BMW), so figured on one of these Guzzis or one of the equally rare 650 Elefants.

Not much progress today, waiting for carb bits to arrive. One good thing about Dellortos is you can buy all the parts, or even whole new carbs, quite reasonably.

[BenelliSEI]

Here you go, I did find info on the book (still looking for my copy!). I suddenly am not sure he was on a Guzzi. Was there a similar Aprillia? Can you tell from the photo?

“It's 2008. The world enters economic meltdown. A global flu pandemic looms. An historical US presidential election is taking place and, somewhere in the Americas, a lone Irishman is coaxing his temperamental Italian motorcycle through another electrical breakdown...
Interspersed with anecdote, social observation and liberal doses of humour, this book follows writer and seasoned overland traveller Paddy Tyson, through his battle with bureaucracy, bike breaking road surfaces, illness, accident, gun toting police and a pasty Celtic complexion remarkably unsuited to the Central American sun.
Published as a collection for the first time, this witty and informative account is essential reading for travellers and would-be adventurers.”

[Tim2005]

Cheers, the book looks worth a read & I'll keep an eye out for a cheap copy, though it's not a Guzzi as I can just see a drive chain. Same kinda era and style of bike so should be good, I do enjoy reading bike travel books.

Latest update- tyres first,  found a nice and cheap new Continental TKC70 front, so bought it & a matching rear and fitted them. It's a good tyre for me, being aimed at mostly tarmac & a bit of offroad, it's also interesting as in some places it's described as radial - very unusual.  The less good news was that the front tyre obviously hadn't been off for ages (maybe since it was fitted 20-odd years ago) and the rim is quite corroded inside, I'm on the lookout for a new rim now. The rear has a little corrosion but is not so bad. I also checked through the carbs as far as is possible without removing them (which is very difficult), sorted problems with the choke cables/lever, and replaced the knackered seals in the choke plungers. I also went through the ignition - found it has points- all seems ok, and checked the tappets & the compression (loads of that) too. 

However, another test ride, handles much better and the whole bike rides really nicely, I was quite enjoying it. Then after 20 minutes riding or so and ticking over for a couple of minutes at a photo stop, every time I pull away from a stopped it runs dreadful, it loses a fair bit of power then 50 yards up the road suddenly switches back to 100%. I'm wondering if a coil is failing when hot. Hopefully this won't be too tricky to find & resolve 

[BenelliSEI]

Cheers, the book looks worth a read & I'll keep an eye out for a cheap copy, though it's not a Guzzi as I can just see a drive chain. Same kinda era and style of bike so should be good, I do enjoy reading bike travel books.

Latest update- tyres first,  found a nice and cheap new Continental TKC70 front, so bought it & a matching rear and fitted them. It's a good tyre for me, being aimed at mostly tarmac & a bit of offroad, it's also interesting as in some places it's described as radial - very unusual.  The less good news was that the front tyre obviously hadn't been off for ages (maybe since it was fitted 20-odd years ago) and the rim is quite corroded inside, I'm on the lookout for a new rim now. The rear has a little corrosion but is not so bad. I also checked through the carbs as far as is possible without removing them (which is very difficult), sorted problems with the choke cables/lever, and replaced the knackered seals in the choke plungers. I also went through the ignition - found it has points- all seems ok, and checked the tappets & the compression (loads of that) too. 

However, another test ride, handles much better and the whole bike rides really nicely, I was quite enjoying it. Then after 20 minutes riding or so and ticking over for a couple of minutes at a photo stop, every time I pull away from a stopped it runs dreadful, it loses a fair bit of power then 50 yards up the road suddenly switches back to 100%. I'm wondering if a coil is failing when hot. Hopefully this won't be too tricky to find & resolve

You’re right! Thinking on it, Paddy wanted a Guzzi but ended up buying an Aprillia?

[Tim2005]

All is progressing well. When you have a new old bike, it is important to clean out the fuel system fully, you may find a lot in there. 

p.s. at 3 o'clock that's a wasp/yellowjacket. It was in the fuel tank. I guess it flew in while a previous owner was stood at the pumps refueling, though that seems pretty unlikely

[simon#42]

it was probably trying to overtake and went up the vent pipe

[Tim2005]

Further progress. Firstly, I decided that rim corrosion was too bad to live with so I have all the pieces organised for the wheel rebuilds now, just got to wait a week or 2 for them to arrive then I can do those. Luckily I had some good rims in my stuff already. Meanwhile it is running loads better, I've been through the ignition fully- new plugs and caps, timing & advance checked, coils tested, also checked the tappets and compression, and cleaned the carbs & fitted the correct size pilots.

As well as all that I sorted out the messy fuel pipes, I couldn't really figure out what was going on or why there were so many, it just has 2 taps, 2 carbs and a crossover piece, but for some reason they had several extras and had run 2 pipes across the top of the crankcase/gearbox under the airbox, so they were getting nice and hot and were below the carbs too. I replaced it all with new hoses routed sensibly & it runs loads better when hot. I may have another go at them sometime, the fittings at tap, carbs and crossover are all different sizes so it's tricky to get the hoses just right. Reminds me of a Ducati Monster, that has 1 hose which is a Ducati special part as it is different sizes at either end.   

Also I've been trying to sort out some handguards, work is still  in progress there as it is a bit of a squeeze getting them to fit, though some old V-Storm ones of mine look promising. I also started on the fluid replacements, gear and rear drive oil first, they take 85w-140 oil and with it being around freezing in the workshop the other day that was like treacle, the only way I could get it to pour was to stand the tin in a bucket of boiling water for a while first.

[MRieck]

No swelling etc with the plastic gas tank? If I remember correctly Ducati had a big problem with that.

[BenelliSEI]

Neat project. Following.

[Tim2005]

No swelling etc with the plastic gas tank? If I remember correctly Ducati had a big problem with that.

That's a good question, it does fit a bit tight but that could be the fairing mounts. I can't see anything in the owners groups about tank swelling (yes some Ducatis get that problem badly), but those groups & most other info about it are in Italian, which is making some things challenging. For instance I've got a full bike's worth of spokes on the way from Italy, at this point I'm about 70% confident they are the correct ones.

About the tank, the photo is actually pretty flattering, the bike badly needs a paint job so I'll be lining that up shortly. I'm going to have to investigate what paints are suitable for plastic tanks & what petrol-resistant clear coats i can use.

[Tim2005]

The next update is going to be different- there shall be some kind of carnage photos. I rode it 20-30 miles on Thursday and it went fine, today I decided to just head over to a shop to get some decorating sealant (another job on the go) , I got a mile up the road and it lost power,  started rattling from the right cylinder and as I pulled to a stop it made a very metallic noise and cut out. I got my week's exercise pushing it home. I need to clear a couple of other jobs in the workshop then I'll be pulling the right cylinder apart to start with. I'll drain the oil too & check for forbidden glitter.

[BenelliSEI]

Ouch….. sad news.

[MauiK3]

Ouch, does not sound good.
Best of luck

[Tim2005]

It's not good. As I figured a strip down was essential, it was even no longer possible to remove the right pot's spark plug, that one undid perfectly well last week & was suddenly stuck. Draining the oil didn't reveal much at all though, no glitter, so that is positive. Anyway, off came the exhaust (easy enough) and the carb (awkward but ok) and then the top end. It is very simple to dismantle this, it's a pushrod motor with overhead valves so very straightforward.

Well, it used to have overhead valves. As you'll see from the photos it now only has 1, the top of the other had dropped off & wrecked the piston & head. The cylinder survived ok luckily. I'm currently on the hunt for parts. Secondhand cylinder heads are reasonably available, but it is at times like this I realise how good we have it in the Honda world, if this was a Honda I could call up David Silver's, or others, and get a choice of new pistons in various sizes. For a vintage Guzzi there are no new pistons available, nobody supports them, so I'm actually having to buy a used piston for it...

[denward17]

Oh no.....sorry to see that.  Any idea what caused it?

[BenelliSEI]

That is not good….

[Tim2005]

No idea what caused it. I spoke with a Guzzi guru who has very rarely encountered this problem on their 2 valve smallblock heads, it's pretty much unknown. Apparently the 4 valve heads do it quite often. But the good news is he has a good secondhand head and piston - complete with cylinder and rings (can't get them new easily either) so it should be back together very soon.