Author Topic: Strange engine numbers?  (Read 594 times)

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Online Don R

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Re: Strange engine numbers?
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2024, 08:44:17 PM »
 Maybe that's why I didn't leave mine in, I like the 18T front sprocket, especially on an F transmission. 
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Strange engine numbers?
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2024, 08:56:34 PM »
Here is a no stamp newer replacement engine case removed from a sandcast bike. It has the Sandcast's cylinder and head. It didn't get numbers but did get the three punches from the factory recall that addressed the chain breakage.

Thanks Don!  I had never heard about the three dots before.  There are no dots punched on my K1, so I guess that means... no chain guard recall was ever accomplished.  Does that sound right?

Pic from CMSNL K2 parts list

Pic from CMSNL K2 parts list
This is the "case saver" part pictured there.
Imho, it's of dubious utility and I believe it was just a stop-gap until Honda made changes to the sprocket/chain.

Appreciate the pix guys!  The guard is just what I had pictured and expected to find under my ("final drive") sprocket cover.

Chain protector fitted from VIN:1026144 up to 1044805.

What happened with 750s after vin 1044805?  My vin is 1072186.  Did a new redesigned chain and sprocket, or other improvements, eliminate the need for the add-on guard?
ZT
Boy, that's a loaded question!
Here's the largely hidden factory changes in the 750K1 comprising the 11/70 "silent update", which corresponded with the intro of the new chain:
1. 17T countersprocket, 100-link chain.
2. new Diamond XL-style chain, made by RK of Japan.
3. steel countersprocket chain guard (also available free for earlier bikes, along with RK chain if being officially 'recalled', required new chain also).
4. swingarm bushings changed from the early zamac plastic to phenolic (didn't self-crumble if ungreased) to preserve rear-wheel alignment in frame under power.
5. longer drain hose for battery's overflow port, and instructions for re-routing it (DonR noted above).
6. for earlier bikes that put racing stripes down the back left shoulder of their jacket, an extended chain guard.

Inside the engine, the clutch also 'lost' the 2 wires that held the back 2 steel plates toward the rear of the hub, to reduce their tendency to stick. It was at this time that an 'unofficial' memo was circulated about putting in some oiling holes in the inner clutch hub (sandcasts lacked these, as did many K0 and some early K1) if there weren't any. This was said to reduce the "suddenness of the clutch engagement" and to "extend the life of the clutch friction plates" in those almost-oilless wet clutches. We also enlarged the oil feed hole in the right end of the mainshaft (inside the clutch hub) to add some more oil to the clutch. (I mentioned some of this in that sandcast rebuild I did 2 years ago).
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Strange engine numbers?
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2024, 08:58:10 PM »
Maybe that's why I didn't leave mine in, I like the 18T front sprocket, especially on an F transmission. 

I tried to fit one over my K!/K2 engine's front sprocket, but it requires the 17T size. I use that sometimes if I know I'll be stuck riding more in city than freeway, lets the engine rev a little more freely in 30-40 MPH riding.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline bryanj

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Re: Strange engine numbers?
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2024, 11:15:45 PM »
The recall removed the 16 tooth as Honda decided it was too small and causing chain break, 17 tooth became the standard size
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

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Online Don R

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Re: Strange engine numbers?
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2024, 03:45:59 PM »
 When we have these discussions, I always learn some things that I didn't know or bother to find in the book. The case with no numbers in the pic is destined for my 11/69 K0 to replace the K3 836 in it now. The blank number motor has sandcast internals in it since it was a replacement case in a sandy.
  I'll make a note of things to check such as the clutch oil upgrades and put it with the engine. My plan is to use that motor with an ebay find, NOS 1978 Wiseco 811 kit, unless a numbered case in the 14,000 neighborhood turns up.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline ZTatZAU

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Re: Strange engine numbers?
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2024, 08:43:20 AM »
When we have these discussions, I always learn some things that I didn't know or bother to find in the book. ...

Same here, Don!  The info provided here really helped with my fading memories.  Turns out my K1 (12/70) CB750 (1072186) currently has an 18 tooth installed so would not be compatible with the case guard.  Whether or not my K1 originally came from the factory with an 18 tooth sprocket, I'm still not sure.  Maybe someone can help with that info?

I know both chain sprockets were replaced somewhere along the way.  Could it be that my recollection of the recall was to install an 18 tooth sprocket rather than installing a case guard?

ZT

Offline 69cb750

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Re: Strange engine numbers?
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2024, 10:39:23 AM »
Quote
Turns out my K1 (12/70) CB750 (1072186) currently has an 18 tooth installed so would not be compatible with the case guard.  Whether or not my K1 originally came from the factory with an 18 tooth sprocket, I'm still not sure.  Maybe someone can help with that info?

11353-300-010 Case guard CB750E-1026144 to CB750E-1048399
11353-300-030 Case guard CB750E-1048400 to CB750E-2200000
23801-300-620 Sprocket 18 tooth 1971
All 71 bikes came with case guard and 18 tooth sprocket.


Offline ZTatZAU

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Re: Strange engine numbers?
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2024, 02:41:04 PM »
Quote
Turns out my K1 (12/70) CB750 (1072186) currently has an 18 tooth installed so would not be compatible with the case guard.  Whether or not my K1 originally came from the factory with an 18 tooth sprocket, I'm still not sure.  Maybe someone can help with that info?

11353-300-010 Case guard CB750E-1026144 to CB750E-1048399
11353-300-030 Case guard CB750E-1048400 to CB750E-2200000
23801-300-620 Sprocket 18 tooth 1971
All 71 bikes came with case guard and 18 tooth sprocket.
Thanks for your reply 69cb750.  Just when I thought all this was making sense, I'm confused again.

It was my newfound understanding that the case guard does not fit over the 18t sprocket.  I understood the chain guard was Honda's "temporary fix" for the early 16 & 17t sprockets and then Honda went to the larger radius 18t sprocket and a heavier chain... after which there was said to be no reason to install the case guard.

So I'm pretty sure your last statement can't be right???
ZT
« Last Edit: December 29, 2024, 12:09:13 PM by ZTatZAU »