Author Topic: LA fires  (Read 292 times)

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Offline 70CB750

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LA fires
« on: January 13, 2025, 08:04:37 AM »
History of LA area wildfires back to 1938 compiled by the LA Times.
It’s not global warming. It’s population density and forest mismanagement.

October 1996 -- A brush fire ignited by an arcing power line destroyed 10 homes in Malibu, Calabasas Canyon and Corral Canyon, and burned close to 14,000 acres.

October and November 1993 -- Runaway brush fires carved swaths of destruction through six Southern California counties. It took the work of more than 10,000 firefighters over six days to subdue the flames.
The fires that ravaged Malibu, Calabasas and Altadena killed three people, injured 12, destroyed or damaged nearly 400 houses, and forced the evacuation of thousands. All told, more than 173,000 acres of Southern California were charred.

June 1990 -- The College Hills brush fire in Glendale destroyed or damaged 67 homes. It was started by one of Southern California’s most notorious firesetters: John Leonard Orr, a firefighter and Glendale arson investigator. Orr is serving a life term for a series of structure and brush arsons that ended with his arrest in 1991, including a fire at a South Pasadena hardware store in which four people died.

December 1988 -- A 3,000-acre fire in Granada Hills and the Porter Ranch area destroyed 15 homes and damaged 25 others.��July 1985 -- An arson fire swept up a slope in Baldwin Hills and killed three people, destroyed 48 homes and damaged 18 others.

October 1982 -- A wind-driven fire raced from Dayton Canyon, in the West San Fernando Valley, to the Malibu coast, destroying 97 homes and burning 54,000 acres.

October 1978 -- A juggernaut of flame and smoke from eight almost-simultaneous fires destroyed 230 homes and a church in blazes from Malibu to Agoura to Mandeville Canyon. One man was killed.

September 1970 -- Ten people died and 403 homes were damaged or destroyed when several blazes combined into a single wall of flames 20 miles long, stretching from Newhall to Malibu. The conflagration charred 435,000 acres.

November 1966 -- A faulty power line near Pacoima Dam sparked a fire that trapped and killed 12 firefighters. Fueled by 60 mph Santa Ana winds, the blaze blackened 2,000 acres around Loop Canyon.

November 1961 -- The Bel-Air/Brentwood fire began in a trash heap. Within minutes, Santa Ana winds swept burning embers from roof to roof, spreading fire across the affluent enclaves of the Santa Monica Mountains. Nearly 500 homes were destroyed. The blaze, which left hundreds of the rich and famous homeless, prompted brush clearance laws.

December 1958 -- Gale-force winds pushed fire through Malibu, destroying 36 homes. On New Year’s Eve, fire consumed 71 additional homes in Topanga and Benedict canyons.

December 1956 -- A Malibu-Zuma fire that also moved into the Lake Sherwood area of Ventura County destroyed 99 homes.

November 1945 -- A fire in the Malibu hills destroyed 150 homes.

November 1938 -- A Thanksgiving Day fire in Topanga Canyon burned 350 buildings, many of them shacks on the then-rural and sparsely populated hillsides.
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Offline willbird

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2025, 08:48:09 AM »
One of the saddest aspects of the current tragedy is that they are catching people intentionally setting fires.

Offline calj737

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2025, 09:31:20 AM »
One of the saddest aspects of the current tragedy is that they are catching people intentionally setting fires.
And looting. Lucky it’s not FL they’d smoke ‘em. No pun intended.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline calj737

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2025, 09:34:33 AM »
History of LA area wildfires back to 1938 compiled by the LA Times.
That doesn’t even factor in the fires from this past 20 years. Pasadena (I believe also had a significant event in 2019). That should have been a wake-up call to tend their forests and create fire breaks. Hopefully, the devs still this time effects immediate change to save these people this tragic loss.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline scottly

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2025, 09:51:46 AM »
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline Don R

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2025, 10:51:33 AM »
 My friend lives near Escondido, he lost his house to fire a few years ago. Not wildfire related but he was unable to get fire insurance due to it being a 30 year old double wide. Now he retired, and his house has wheels and an engine in back.
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2025, 11:43:29 AM »
As far as I know, nobody on these forums is a climate scientist, please correct me if I am wrong. What climate scientists are saying about the current fires in LA is that climate change is a significant factor in increasing the intensity and frequency of fires such as this. So yeah, it didn't "cause" it, but it contributed to its devastation.

Logically, because devastating fires happened in the past does not "disprove" that climate change has nothing to do with the current devastating fire.

I continue to be baffled at why people who are not experts push the idea that climate change isn't real, it doesn't affect tragedies such as this, and other nonsense. Without trying to inject politics into this thread as well, it is clear that the very idea of climate change is political in the United States (due mostly to special interests). It's astounding when considering that 97% of climate scientists are in consensus about climate change. People so forcefully want to deny climate science that they make ad hominem attacks on people who disagree, and instead of discussing the tragedy of the event would rather just assert that climate change has nothing to do with it.

People should value expertise, and should listen when experts tell them important things. I'm not a climate scientist so I am under no pretenses that posting this will change any minds, just as when others here post things to the contrary about the climate it does nothing to convince me. But perhaps we could agree that reading what the experts have to say would probably be more fruitful.

Offline willbird

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2025, 12:25:57 PM »
As far as I know, nobody on these forums is a climate scientist, please correct me if I am wrong. What climate scientists are saying about the current fires in LA is that climate change is a significant factor in increasing the intensity and frequency of fires such as this. So yeah, it didn't "cause" it, but it contributed to its devastation.

Logically, because devastating fires happened in the past does not "disprove" that climate change has nothing to do with the current devastating fire.

I continue to be baffled at why people who are not experts push the idea that climate change isn't real, it doesn't affect tragedies such as this, and other nonsense. Without trying to inject politics into this thread as well, it is clear that the very idea of climate change is political in the United States (due mostly to special interests). It's astounding when considering that 97% of climate scientists are in consensus about climate change. People so forcefully want to deny climate science that they make ad hominem attacks on people who disagree, and instead of discussing the tragedy of the event would rather just assert that climate change has nothing to do with it.

People should value expertise, and should listen when experts tell them important things. I'm not a climate scientist so I am under no pretenses that posting this will change any minds, just as when others here post things to the contrary about the climate it does nothing to convince me. But perhaps we could agree that reading what the experts have to say would probably be more fruitful.

I said in another thread if you od not understand people try talking to them, but that means listening too which can be more difficult.

My total expenditure for furnace, water heater, and a stove all on NG is around $400 for an 1800sq house in NW Ohio. If we strictly followed govt desires my entire house probably would have to be all electric. Relatives 5-6 miles away did have an all electric home and their energy bills for roughly the same square feet were triple mine on NG. Others I knew heated with LP and during a cold winter their LP gas bill was 400 a MONTH. Which is still cheaper probably than Toledo Edison and electric heat.

To not FULLY follow govt wishes I could build a new home like mine with NG heat, water heater, and stove but still have it wired for all that stuff to be electric, not cheap these days with the price of copper.

The last decade a huge investment has been made also to run NG pipelines up into MI into areas where the only options were LP gas or electric.

So the current "emergency" and knee jerk reactions and so called "fixes" are the issues that make it "political" to determine what the exact issues are, and what is actually a viable solution to them.

I tried as best as I could to explain that without assigning any blame or calling anybody names or pointing any fingers.

State of MI right now is on the cusp of bulldozing 420 acres of forest in order to let a third party install PV solar in a project where similar projects have in total caused an increase in net CO2 output, the "reason" for potentially it is profit motive from govt subsidies to encourage PV solar. Over by Fayette, OH they are turning good productive farm ground into multiple hundreds of acres of PV solar, I rode my CB750K2 and my CB500x past there a lot in the prior year.

Even just the "deal" of trying to roll "climate change" and anthropogenic global warming into one ball and then saying that people are denying ALL of it to me is not a good practice. Several things going on, is the climate changing ? Is Human activity the root cause ?? Is CO2 the prime mover ?? Is forcing every home and business into "all electric" the solution ?? If so how soon should/could we do that ?

Anybody that questions the party line when all of this stuff tramples on their lives is branded a "climate denier" :-).

The people who say they do not understand could listen and maybe they would understand better. The party line is to just gut some of those folks houses and force them into a new $2k or more water heater with a 7-10 year life expectancy, and on top of that $6k-$10k for new HVAC again that has a lifespan shorter than some of our much loved pets :-). Then those folks some of whom lived on fixed incomes and facing rising real estate taxes have to absorb another $100-$300 a month in total energy costs.


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Offline 70CB750

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2025, 12:40:26 PM »
Firebombing on the Pacific

Over 25,000 acres are ablaze in Los Angeles in the Pacific Palisades fire, a veritable living hell.

Some 12,000-plus structures were incinerated. More than 250,000 souls have been evacuated and are in need of shelter.

No one has really taken charge yet. And now even the woke culprits for the catastrophe are blame-gaming each other to determine who was the more incompetent, which in this case translates to the most woke.

No one knows how many have died; all know the number will escalate in the next few days.

The eventual price tag of the ruin will exceed $200-300 billion and outstrip the billions of dollars given to Ukraine.

And there are still some fires that are completely uncontained.

The Los Angeles apocalypse was a multisystem, green-woke collapse—and a disastrous reminder that when Soviet-style, anti-meritocratic ideology permeates all aspects of modern life in California, disaster is inevitable.

First, note that the culprit of the catastrophe is not climate change; it is not Donald Trump. Those are excuses for arrogant incompetency and disdain for the public. And it is not racism or homophobia to fault those who paraded and virtue signaled their tribal identities so extraneous to their actual responsibilities for public safety.

Note that all California statewide officeholders are left-wing. The California left holds supermajorities in both houses of the state legislature. Only 17 percent of California’s huge congressional delegation of 52 seats is Republican. California’s judiciary is the most left-wing in the country. There is not a single Republican on the 15-member Los Angeles City Council.

Add it all up, and the woke socialist state has been eagerly deindustrializing, decivilizing, and retribalizing its way into what is now a veritable peacetime Dresden on the Pacific.

Again, there is no one else to blame, because California is one of those rare states in which Republicans have de facto zero political power. All the state media, the legacy newspapers, the Silicon Valley daily online news sites, the Bay Area-based Apple, Google, and Facebook monopolies, and the local news outlets are parrots of the woke-green mindset.

To the degree that anything still works in California, it predates 2000. The core of the ossified Central Valley Water Project and the California Water Project remain—though they are in need of massive maintenance, like almost all the infrastructure the current generation of politicians inherited and largely ignored.

Now crowded and obsolete highways that were once the nation’s best still function—but barely. And there are a few remnants of sanity in what is left of the pre-woke and once-great universities of Berkeley, Caltech, Stanford, UCLA, and USC, founded by a now despised but far wiser and more competent long-dead generation of visionaries.

The Real ‘Basket of Deplorables’

Los Angeles brags about its new $50 billion budget and trumpets how it expanded “Care First” programs. Indeed, the mayor’s budget claims it created a new “451 positions”—highlighting its investments in “growing the department of youth development.”

It boasts it is adding positions to the “Justice, Care, and Opportunities Department,” “reducing our jail population,” and expanding “voting solutions for all people.” There is not much about fire, policing, or water—apparently now the low priorities that prior sexist, racist, and homophobic generations once worried about.

The role of DEI? Mayor Karen Bass was warned of the current danger of dry hillsides of chaparral buffeted by record-high, 100-mph Santa Ana winds. Her response?

She went junketing a continent away to the inauguration festivities of the president of Ghana—a strange way to prepare for a possible inferno to come. Does Ghana have firefighting expertise to share with Bass? In damage-control mode, Bass flew back only to be confronted at the airport by a now rare honest—and thus foreign—reporter.

He asked her why she cut over $17.6 million from the LA fire service budget—itself just 65% of the city’s homelessness expenditures. (She had planned to cut millions of dollars more). And why, he asked, was she in Africa at all in her city’s hour of need?

Bass stood mute—shamed into silence.

I think Los Angelenos needed no answer since it was obvious to them: she went to Ghana because she could and wanted to—since identity chauvinism is what ensured she was elected, reelected, and immune from criticism. Look at her appointments and budget, and it is clear public safety, fires, and water are most certainly not her priorities.

Bass was confident that if LA went up in smoke as she pursued her African agendas, the woke megaphones would silence critics as “racist” or “homophobic” or “sexist” in the way Soviet commissars used to send to Siberia any “ideological enemies of the state” who complained that the farms, industries, and trains of Russia no longer worked. And on spec, we now hear it is now racist to criticize a black woman incompetent mayor.

How about the Bass-appointed DEI “deputy mayor for safety,” Brian Williams?

Surely, he stepped up in the mayor’s absence, given his purview of the city’s “safety?” Nope.

You see, he is currently under suspension for suspicion of phoning in a bomb threat to Los Angeles City Hall.

Well, how about the DEI- and the much-acclaimed “first Latina” director of Los Angeles’s vast waterworks? Bass recruited such talent by nearly doubling the job’s normal salary to $750,000 per year.

What did she accomplish on her over $2,000-a-day salary? Did Janisse Quiñones, “the new Chief Executive Officer and Chief Engineer of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP) and the “first Latina woman to lead the organization,” leap into action?

Well, the water very quickly ran out in Pacific Palisades, and the hydrants went dry—as many had been for months prior.

Quiñones claimed that “three million gallons” in tanks above the suburb were mysteriously not up to the task of quenching the LA Dresden. You think?

She apparently gauges disaster preparation by the number of gallons of water available in tanks, not the number of gallons needed to save thousands of homes and lives. And she forgot to tell the public that in fact there is a 117-million-gallon water reservoir atop Pacific Palisades built for some purpose unknown to her.

Yet it was empty and “under repair” for months because of a mere damaged cover. Consider that: a dry autumn, the onset of the usual Santa Ana winds, a recent plague of hilltop wildfires, and Quiñones shuts down the linchpin of a prior generation’s plan to save the Palisades.

Note Quiñones was supposed to be the professional replacement for a retired director of water and power, who himself had been a replacement for another director who was found guilty of bribery and is currently in federal prison.

So goes the agency created by water wizard William Mulholland, who once created the 18-million-person Los Angeles megapolis by tapping every river and reservoir he could to feed the city’s unquenchable thirst for water.

How about fire chief Kristen Crowley? She now blames the mayor for dry hydrants. But in doing so, she pleaded that her job starts only after water flows out of them—as if their inert condition is not really her concern.

The self-celebrity, nonbinary fire chief Kristen Crowley has talked nonstop for the last two years about “diversity, equity, and inclusion” and the “LGBTU community.” Less was said about the need to ensure the most meritocratic force possible, unmatched equipment, and long preplanned measures to prevent conflagrations—and screaming to high heaven that fire hydrants were either being stolen or bone dry.

Instead, like Bass, Crowley was mostly mute about the lack of preparation or the absence of sufficient warning to those about to be engulfed.

How about her deputy Kristine Lawson, who claimed people in need want to see fire officers arrive who look like they do? And if they don’t?

She is also on record with this: “Am I able to carry your husband out of a fire? He got himself in the wrong place if I have to carry him out.” Consider that helpful LAFD logic: So, if you are a man who suffers cardiac arrest and collapses on your kitchen floor, it is your fault that you died without medical attention, not Kristine’s, who apparently either would not or could not carry you out the door.

How about morally bankrupt politicians?

The speaker of the California Assembly, Robert Rivas, along with Governor Gavin Newsom, had just called a special session of the legislature to “Trump-proof” California. He wished to allot millions of dollars in state funds—in a year of massive deficits—to sue and impede the federal government.

Will Rivas’s Trump “resistance” session include canceling California’s simultaneous request for hundreds of billions of federal dollars for Los Angeles from the Trump administration? When asked whether it was wise to borrow millions to sue Trump while Los Angeles was burning, Rivas mumbled, stuttered, and revealed himself to be little more than a caricature of an incompetent.

Governor Gavin “Nero” Newsom made his usual performance art, virtual-signaling appearance. When asked why the hydrants were dry, he batted it off as a “local problem.” He now uses his own campaign website, linked to Democratic fundraising efforts, to warn the fire-struck public about supposed “misinformation.”

But what could Newsom do or say? His entire tenure is synonymous with too many catastrophic forest fires and too little water.

He did nothing after the catastrophic Aspen and Paradise fires to revive the timber industry to glean and clean the forests. He never allowed much new grazing on fuel-rich hills or sent crews in to cut back the chaparral.

He never reconsidered his policies of diverting precious snowmelt from the Sacramento River tributaries to flow into the sea to help the delta smelt rather than to ensure that farmers could irrigate their crops or that Los Angeles County reservoirs were fully banked.

Despite an approved 2014 $7.5 billion bond to build three huge dams and reservoirs, Newsom ensured that we built none: not the easily constructed Sites reservoir, not Temperance Flat, and not Los Banos Grandes, all tertiary foothill reservoirs that could have given California by now nearly five million additional acre-feet of storage.

Or is it worse than that?

Governor Dam-Buster still brags about how he greenlit blowing up four dams on the Klamath River—the largest dam removal in American history. The dams provided 80,000 homes with clean hydroelectric power, farmers with irrigation water, and the public with recreation and flood control.

Instead of following the voters’ bond to build reservoirs and dams, Newsom preferred to dynamite them. The ensuing muddy deluge wiped out the surrounding riparian ecosystem.

Joe Biden, now in the last days of his disastrous tenure, was in the LA area by chance to boast that he had put thousands of valuable federal square miles off limits.

Instead, he mumbled about his new great-grandson and relief that his kid’s house was saved, as the fire was engulfing 12,000 homes of others. Then Biden unceremoniously left, heartbroken that his last junket to Italy might have to be canceled as Los Angeles continued to burn. Later he too grumbled about “misinformation,” which is his synonym for telling the truth about the Los Angeles green woke bomb.

Kamala Harris? Was the vice president perhaps marshaling federal money and assets to stop the fires in her last weeks in office? After all, we remember from her 2024 campaign Harris’s frenzied efforts to help out during national disasters, as she scolded the capable Florida governor Ron DeSantis that he was not partnering enough with her to mitigate the effects of flooding.

She too proved invisible other than remarking the fire was “apocalyptic.” Instead, Harris was too busy planning a multimillion-dollar junket in her last week in office and of free royal travel.

Insurance? Is there some plan to rebuild these suburbs as they were, to ensure there are some $300 billion to pay out claims? Well, no again. The state is broke and is driving out insurance companies, not enticing them in. Its public “Fair” unfair insurance plan of last resort is underfunded and will go insolvent once a week or two of claims flows in.

California’s failure to effectively prevent and put out fires—along with hyper-regulation and failure to combat an epidemic of insurance fraud—has destroyed the state’s insurance industry. Given the prior inability of homeowners to buy credible fire insurance at any cost, there are thousands of now-homeless who had no insurance at all.

How about the region’s large homeless population that camps out on the streets and in the tinderbox chaparral above the suburbs? Did the city investigate arson or detain, arrest, charge, and jail those rounded up with incendiary devices or seen lighting fires? Of course not. They vetoed any notion long ago of an anti-camping ordinance.

Collective Suicide

Add it all up. The California nihilist green ethos and the left-wing politicians who run the madhouse ensured there is no effort to glean the forests and hills of combustible fuel.

There is not enough water for hydrants, not enough to deliver to Los Angeles, and when it arrives, there is too much incompetence to know how to use it.

There were no real warnings to residents that they had mere minutes to flee for their lives. Or was it worse still? As the fires wore on, continuous false alarms of new fires sparked unnecessary and dangerous mass evacuations citywide, destroying what, if any, trust was left in the fire department.

There is no reason to believe that such derelict politicians during the next fire will not again be AWOL on DEI junkets, boasting of their genders, their race, and their sexual orientation, but not of their duties to those whose lives they are sworn to protect.

The final tragic irony?

California’s DEI “humanism” and Green New Deal environmentalism ensured the cruelest imaginable treatment of thousands of people and unrivaled destruction of the natural ecosystem.

No one in the government dares to guess about what might have caused the fires, even as they cry “climate change”—as if to do so would expose their own incompetency or confirm rumors of sporadic homeless arsonists.

The California green utopians, by their very ideological zealotry, ensured their fires likely will have released into the atmosphere several weeks’ worth of the entire state’s collective auto emissions.

The fires will have wiped out thousands of protected flora and fauna, will have released toxic fumes into the air, and will have destroyed the lives of thousands of Los Angeles residents for years to come.

To paraphrase a 1960s California left-wing slogan—green-woke is not healthy for children and other living things.

https://victorhanson.com/woke-dei-green-nihilism-dresden-in-california/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2WmJ6HFmFEe-pWm1YvFJW6kzJlq-zEm27DTcXKk5Vclf1qObM6qpHSfxA_aem_Mu3TNJY4ddEcIX_WZP3yvw
Prokop
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Offline CycleRanger

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2025, 12:57:55 PM »
If you're going to copy and paste crap from the Freepers at least give it an attribution.  ::)

Imho, this thread/topic serves no good purpose here.
Plenty of other places to argue/debate about stuff unrelated to motorcycles.
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2025, 01:02:02 PM »
If you're going to copy and paste crap from the Freepers at least give it an attribution.  ::)

Imho, this thread/topic serves no good purpose here.
Plenty of other places to argue/debate about stuff unrelated to motorcycles.

Completely devolved in one post to political naming/blaming. Some people are just unable to help themselves, unfortunately. Maybe someone can lock this now before it turns into more of a 5hit5how.

Offline calj737

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2025, 01:21:07 PM »
I continue to be baffled at why people who are not experts push the idea that climate change isn't real…
You openly concede you are not a climate scientist, so why then do you believe that it is “real” as touted? Why are you not skeptical enough to dive deeply into the studies to see if they genuinely do prove human contribution? And to what extent?

Quote
It's astounding when considering that 97% of climate scientists are in consensus about climate change.
Since you have repeated this oft-chanted claim by the Climate Lobby, and I provided a link to a dissection of this “claim” (which you obviously won’t research) I’ll summarize it for you:
In 2004 a historian of science named Naomi Oreski claimed she looked at 928 articles and that 75 of them held the consensus view that humans were contributing to climate change. (Hardly a 97% consensus view).

In 2009, University of Illinois sent an online survey to 10,000 scientists worldwide asking two simple questions: do you believe globally temps have risen since the early 1800s, and do you think human activity is responsible. They received 3146 responses.  Vast majority agreed with the first, but only 82% said yes to the second. But what is critical to understand is that of the responses, only 64% of meterologists said yes to the second, and those who identify as “climate experts” (77 persons) responded with a positive to the first and only 75 to the second. 75/77 is 97%.

That is the origin of the 97% myth. 75 of 77 climate experts answered a survey that they believe humans contribute to climate change. No facts, no data, no historical evidence to substantiate this wholesale consensus. Just a survey.

Everyone with a brain accepts that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Everyone accepts that human activity contributes more CO2 than we consume. But what gets ignored/overlooked/unanswered is: what is the “correct level of CO2 for our planet? It has been excessively higher in the past. It is required for life on earth. Deforestation increases greenhouse gases faster and at a much higher rate than humans create.

But as humans expand their living space, responsible forestry habits must be implemented. Nature has for eons had forest fires as a part of the cycle of growth, rebirth, replenishment. It is when we urbanize these environs that we must accept the responsibility to manage these areas as carefully as possible. Moratoriums on forestry cutting, clearing and fire breaks is ignorant, asinine and completely separated from reality. Look at the massive fires that occur in the National Forests annually. We only fight them to protect property.

You may be unaware that parts of New England (VT especially) were completely deforested 100 years ago as it was a dairy-first state. It transitioned away from that, and now those very fields and hills are covered with trees. And without cutting them, clearing them on a managed basis, they have become fire hazards for the state.

Suffice it to say; the more humans attempt to manage nature, the more they screw it up.

So do us all a favor, and step down from your CC pulpit. Those who support you will, those who disagree with you won’t. But I encourage you to adopt a different mentality- I prefer a question that is unanswered than an answer that won’t tolerate questioning. Because truth can only lie in the open.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2025, 01:53:48 PM »
Cantankerous Cal strikes again!

I continue to be baffled at why people who are not experts push the idea that climate change isn't real…
You openly concede you are not a climate scientist, so why then do you believe that it is “real” as touted? Why are you not skeptical enough to dive deeply into the studies to see if they genuinely do prove human contribution? And to what extent?

Uh... because I'm not a climate scientist Cal. Neither are you (c'mon, big guy, admit it: you're not a climate scientist either!). Instead, I read what they have to say and trust them because I believe in... science!

No facts, no data, no historical evidence to substantiate this wholesale consensus. Just a survey.

I know you're not as dumb as you're pretending to be here. A survey asked scientists about their view on climate change, and they gave it. Their work is what contains the data. Or do you think that if anyone answers a question they should provide all sources and citations for any element of the answer? You are cute when you're feigning ignorance though.

I like your exegeses, including the non-sequiturs, as much as anyone else, but... c'mon now, admit it... you're not a climate scientist. Please? Or are you?

Offline willbird

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2025, 01:58:34 PM »
Cantankerous Cal strikes again!

I continue to be baffled at why people who are not experts push the idea that climate change isn't real…
You openly concede you are not a climate scientist, so why then do you believe that it is “real” as touted? Why are you not skeptical enough to dive deeply into the studies to see if they genuinely do prove human contribution? And to what extent?

Uh... because I'm not a climate scientist Cal. Neither are you (c'mon, big guy, admit it: you're not a climate scientist either!). Instead, I read what they have to say and trust them because I believe in... science!

No facts, no data, no historical evidence to substantiate this wholesale consensus. Just a survey.

I know you're not as dumb as you're pretending to be here. A survey asked scientists about their view on climate change, and they gave it. Their work is what contains the data. Or do you think that if anyone answers a question they should provide all sources and citations for any element of the answer? You are cute when you're feigning ignorance though.

I like your exegeses, including the non-sequiturs, as much as anyone else, but... c'mon now, admit it... you're not a climate scientist. Please? Or are you?

Bill Nye is not either LOL, he is not a scientist...he was a mechanical engineer, but he shouts down actual "climate scientists", if he can why can't we ?? LOL..

Bill

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2025, 02:14:37 PM »
Bill Nye is not either LOL, he is not a scientist...he was a mechanical engineer, but he shouts down actual "climate scientists", if he can why can't we ?? LOL..

Bill

I mean, of course you can. Or you can try. It just doesn't add much to anyone's understanding. Although I don't think Bill Nye actually "shouts down" climate scientists as much as agrees with them, if the words that come out of his mouth are to be believed.

Offline calj737

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2025, 04:49:16 PM »

You openly concede you are not a climate scientist, so why then do you believe that it is “real” as touted? Why are you not skeptical enough to dive deeply into the studies to see if they genuinely do prove human contribution? And to what extent?
Quote
I read what they have to say and trust them because I believe in... science!
Interesting. Do you believe in things you know not the truth of? You can’t claim to “know” because you haven’t looked at the data. I am not a climate scientist, but I have read dozens of studies for and counter. And I don’t need to be credentialed scientist to read, understand and process results. Perhaps you do?

No facts, no data, no historical evidence to substantiate this wholesale consensus. Just a survey.

I know you're not as dumb as you're pretending to be here. A survey asked scientists about their view on climate change, and they gave it. Their work is what contains the data. Or do you think that if anyone answers a question they should provide all sources and citations for any element of the answer? You are cute when you're feigning ignorance though.
But they were never asked nor challenged to provide the work (peer reviewed) to support their “view”. That makes it 110% opinion, not science. Science is data-driven. Without temptation, without corruption, without agenda, purely to prove or disprove a hypothesis. No such proof is forthcoming that has withstood peer review.

Now who’s being dumb???

Quote
I like your exegeses, including the non-sequiturs, as much as anyone else, but... c'mon now, admit it... you're not a climate scientist. Please? Or are you?
Yet again you demonstrate a myopia that stunts intellectual understanding. You can’t dispel the facts so you dive to antics. It’s fine by me. Tomorrow the sun will rise, the day will continue whether you learn to examine things to know the truth of what you believe. If you find something that proves the facts to you, great. Share it. I’ll read it. I like to learn.

Those who believe the know the answer only prove they have stopped asking the right question. Don’t let that be you, CC.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2025, 05:01:30 PM by calj737 »
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2025, 04:54:43 PM »
Those who have no basis for their knowledge but believe they know better than the experts only prove they have no idea about what they are talking about. Don’t let that be you, CC.

Fixed it for you, Cantakerous Cal! Luv ya buddy!  :-*

Offline calj737

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2025, 05:02:25 PM »
Those who have no basis for their knowledge but believe they know better than the experts only prove they have no idea about what they are talking about. Don’t let that be you, CC.

Fixed it for you, Cantakerous Cal! Luv ya buddy!  :-*
Delighted that you proved the adage true.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline 70CB750

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2025, 05:06:34 PM »
If you're going to copy and paste crap from the Freepers at least give it an attribution.  ::)

Imho, this thread/topic serves no good purpose here.
Plenty of other places to argue/debate about stuff unrelated to motorcycles.

Truth hurts like #$%*, doesn't it.

Prokop
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2025, 05:08:26 PM »
Those who have no basis for their knowledge but believe they know better than the experts only prove they have no idea about what they are talking about. Don’t let that be you, CC.

Fixed it for you, Cantakerous Cal! Luv ya buddy!  :-*
Delighted that you proved the adage true.

Right on :)
Prokop
_______________
Pure Gas - find ethanol free gas station near you

I love it when parts come together.

Dorothy - my CB750
CB750K3F - The Red
Sidecar


CB900C

2006 KLR650

Offline calj737

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2025, 05:24:04 PM »
Those who have no basis for their knowledge but believe they know better than the experts only prove they have no idea about what they are talking about. Don’t let that be you, CC.

Fixed it for you, Cantakerous Cal! Luv ya buddy!  :-*
Delighted that you proved the adage true.

Right on :)
Doesn’t even realize the self-inflicted GSW  ::)
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline scottly

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Re: LA fires
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2025, 05:57:09 PM »
Prokop and Cal, you both know better. Bye bye.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....