Topic: 77 CB550F-SS swap to DynaTek S electronic ignition issues

[DeLuxe]

When I try to kick start it, nothing happens, but after about 5 kicks, there's a loud pop.

My guess is that I didn't time it correctly. I aligned it with the 1-4 marks, and when I advanced the rotor (the 2-3 marks were fine, so I didn’t need to adjust them), the test light came on.

I also checked all the spark plugs, and they fire when I advance the rotor. I watched 5 YouTube videos on how to set the timing, am I missing something?

I know it's not a fuel issue because it ran before the swap, though it ran rough, which is why I'm doing the conversion in the first place.

I installed it according to the manual: the rotor with the magnet is facing left, black to blue, white to yellow, and red to the 12V ignition power source

[scottly]

Try swapping the blue and yellow wires.

[DeLuxe]

Amazing. I can't believe it was that simple of a fix. I didn't even have to adjust timing. Now that I got that knocked out, I can get to replacing the coils since I am still (obviously) getting super weak spark.

[scottly]

Super weak spark?? What is the voltage at the coil blk/wht wires?

[DeLuxe]

My voltage is between 11 and 11.20. Coils 1-4 have strong spark, while coils 2-3 have weak spark. They are OEM coils.

[scottly]

Make sure you have a good connection on the 2-3 blk/wht wire. BTW, does the Dyna black wire have a blue band near the connector, and the white wire have a yellow band, or vice versa?
Regarding timing, the spark is supposed to happen when the F mark on the advancer lines up with the mark on the case.

[DeLuxe]

I’ll check the continuity of the black/white wire on the 2-3 coils tomorrow when I work on it. If the connections are good, I'll go ahead and put my Dyna coils on.

There are no bands on the Dyna wires, just black, red, and white wires.

Yeah, I set the timing so it fires at the 1-4 marks when you rotate the advance rotor. It actually runs noticeably better than when I had the points on it.

[scottly]

Are you rotating the rotor against the advancer springs, or rotating the crankshaft? It should be the crankshaft, so the rotor is in the retarded position when setting the timing. Are the new coils 3 ohm or 5 ohm?

[DeLuxe]

I'm rotating it against the advancer springs (clockwise). When I rotate the crank to the F mark, my multimeter reads 11v.

The Dyna coils I picked up are 5 ohms.

[scottly]

Check the timing by rotating the crankshaft with the kickstarter and listening for spark while watching the marks, or, better yet, check the timing with a strobe timing light while the engine is running.

[DeLuxe]

Awesome, thank you for the advice! I'll check it when I go to replace the coils.

[DeLuxe]

I put the new coils in a few days ago, I'm getting 10.80v at the coil power source. My battery is 12.90v, any ideas what to check?

[scottly]

What is the voltage with the kill switch turned off?
Oops, I should have asked what is the voltage on the black wire at the voltage regulator with the kill switch off..

[jaytee-nz]

My understanding is that Dyna systems need 1-2volts to power them and that could explain your voltage difference.

[scottly]

Supposedly the Dyna has much more dwell than the points system, which allows both coils to be energized at the same time, doubling the current draw during that time. Also, with the key on but the engine not running, the dyna *may* default to both coils being energized?

[bryanj]

Are those readings of battery and coil both with ignition and kill switch on? If so you have corroded connections somewhere in the line between battery and coils

[DeLuxe]

Okay, with the ignition off, it gets 11.98V. With the ignition on, it gets 10.80V. I just ran the bike with one of the problem cylinders' spark plug removed and grounded, and it was sparking fine. However, one peculiar thing I did notice is that the spark plug is completely dry (I put a brand new plug in to confirm this) after running the engine. There's fuel in the intake manifold, and there is compression. Could an intake valve be stuck? This is for cylinders 1 and 2.

I have no idea what to do from here.

[scottly]

Okay, with the ignition off, it gets 11.98V. With the ignition on, it gets 10.80V.

I have no idea what to do from here.

Connect the positive lead of your voltmeter to the battery positive terminal, then measure the voltage drop at the red key switch wire with the other meter lead, with the key switch on and the kill switch off. It will be a small number, like one or two volts. Report your findings.

[HondaMan]

Your battery is low. The voltage should not fall below 11.5 volts with key ON and engine not running: it should read at least 12.6 volts if charged up when OFF. The Dyna triggers may not reliably switch OFF if the voltage gets too low while running. This will cause the affected coil to stop firing, or fire weakly.

[DeLuxe]

It's like it's not getting fuel into cylinders 1 & 2 (it runs on 3 & 4 no problem), the spark plugs are clean, there's fuel in the intake manifold, there's noticeable compression, the valves move fine (I don't have feeler gauge to 100% check them though)

Your battery is low. The voltage should not fall below 11.5 volts with key ON and engine not running: it should read at least 12.6 volts if charged up when OFF. The Dyna triggers may not reliably switch OFF if the voltage gets too low while running. This will cause the affected coil to stop firing, or fire weakly.

My battery is reading 13.1v after I charged it now. I have good spark now, I still get ~11v with KS on, ~12v with it off.

Connect the positive lead of your voltmeter to the battery positive terminal, then measure the voltage drop at the red key switch wire with the other meter lead, with the key switch on and the kill switch off. It will be a small number, like one or two volts. Report your findings.

I will do that next time I work on the bike.

[HondaMan]

Without being there to see...the 2 "bad" cylinders may not be getting enough fuel if the bike sat a long time before you started working with it: this can come from the type of carbs that are on the 77F 550. Several things can cause this, ranging from a stuck float valve to a corroded idle air port.

I might suggest pulling off the #1 float bowl to see if it has fuel inside? Or, you can just open the drain screw to see if gas flows out of the overflow pipe on the bottom (which is supposed to have a 3.5mm hose running that fuel to behind the engine so it won't catch on fire if it drips!).
The USA version of the 77 550F came with 2 types of carbs. One set isn't hard to work with while the other is a tricky thing. Can you look on the front crossmember of the carb(s) and see what model number they are? It will be something like "022" or "X46" or the like.

[DeLuxe]

Without being there to see...the 2 "bad" cylinders may not be getting enough fuel if the bike sat a long time before you started working with it: this can come from the type of carbs that are on the 77F 550. Several things can cause this, ranging from a stuck float valve to a corroded idle air port.

I might suggest pulling off the #1 float bowl to see if it has fuel inside? Or, you can just open the drain screw to see if gas flows out of the overflow pipe on the bottom (which is supposed to have a 3.5mm hose running that fuel to behind the engine so it won't catch on fire if it drips!).
The USA version of the 77 550F came with 2 types of carbs. One set isn't hard to work with while the other is a tricky thing. Can you look on the front crossmember of the carb(s) and see what model number they are? It will be something like "022" or "X46" or the like.

I'm running 2 into 4 Mikuni VM34s. Anyways, I got that original issue solved. The intake valve clearance was way off. But yet again, I have another issue now. The RPMs hang when I give throttle, and when I quickly blip it, it returns back down to idle. Does just cleaning the carbs solve this issue? I checked for air leaks and none.

[HondaMan]

Well...I wish you luck with that carb setup: I've not seen one that will idle at less than 1750 RPM with that arrangement.

[scottly]

I'm running 2 into 4 Mikuni VM34s. Anyways, I got that original issue solved. The intake valve clearance was way off. But yet again, I have another issue now. The RPMs hang when I give throttle, and when I quickly blip it, it returns back down to idle.

Does your carb setup use a two into one cable for the throttle? If something is binding up slightly, the throttle can "hang" when closed gently, but snap closed with a quick movement.