Author Topic: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post  (Read 5045 times)

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holysmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2007, 05:05:56 AM »
gotta wonder though. if pounding the piss out of helpless civilians is so supported in the US

why every time it happens, even in the  present,, impeachment is considered






Congress hints at Bush’s impeachment over Iraq
Republican blasts Democrats for artificial troop withdrawal date
By HOPE YEN
 
 
 

WASHINGTON — With his go-it-alone approach on Iraq, President George W. Bush is flouting Congress and the public, so angering legislators that some consider impeachment an option over his war policy, a senator from Bush’s own party said Sunday.

Meanwhile, the Senate’s No. 2 Republican leader harshly criticized Democrats in the House of Representatives for setting an "artificial date" for withdrawing troops from Iraq and said he believes Republicans have enough votes to prevent passage of a similar bill in the Senate.

"We need to put that kind of decision in the hands of our commanders who are there on the ground with the men and women," said Senator Trent Lott, (R-Miss.). "For Congress to impose an artificial date of any kind is totally irresponsible."

Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a frequent critic of the war, stopped short of calling for Bush’s impeachment. But he made clear that some legislators viewed that as an option should Bush choose to push ahead despite public sentiment against the war.

"Any president who says, I don’t care, or I will not respond to what the people of this country are saying about Iraq or anything else, or I don’t care what the Congress does, I am going to proceed — if a president really believes that, then . . . there are ways to deal with that," said Hagel, who is considering a 2008 presidential run.

The Senate planned to begin debate today on a war spending bill that would set a non-binding goal of March 31, 2008, for the removal of combat troops.

That comes after the House narrowly passed a bill Friday that would pay for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan this year but would require that combat troops come home from Iraq before September 2008 — or earlier if the Iraqi government did not meet certain requirements.


« Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 05:49:20 AM by holysmokes »

Offline Tvag

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2007, 07:51:37 AM »
I wish I could add something here, but I am in such anguish about what has happened in the past 6 years I can no longer stay civil in argument over it. Suffice it to say we've failed our troops, failed ourselves, and failed humanity.

I've spent the last 30 minutes carefully thinking of my next statement but can't find the words to express myself. Nothing I can say can convey the disappointment, fury, and shame I hold in my heart.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2007, 08:11:34 AM »
No f*cking problems in Iraq, ol' Saddam would still be doing his nasty thang, (and who'd really care?) and there'd be 3000 Mom's and Dad's in the US not grieving every day over that useless war on common sense that took their children away.................  :'(
Hear!!!!!!! Hear!!!!!!!!!
Well put.
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Brent C.

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2007, 10:06:53 AM »
Liberals want us to fear SUV's and global warming over a tyrant dictator that slaughters his own people? Sounds about right to me.......

My brother is in the Airforce and has been to Iraq twice now, He has a cool shirt that says.

I enlisted to keep the F in VFW!

I hold this war and all the military in the highest regard. Our freedom will ALWAYS be payed for by blood of martyrs and heroes, as soon as that changes, we no longer have freedom.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2007, 10:32:04 AM »
I hold this war and all the military in the highest regard. Our freedom will ALWAYS be payed for by blood of martyrs and heroes, as soon as that changes, we no longer have freedom.

True words. However, in this case I think we went after the wrong Tyrant at the wrong time. Now we are stuck in this mess and we don;t have the manpower to get the real bad guiys. I pray for your bothers safe return.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

holysmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2007, 11:10:51 AM »
now we have 15 british soldiers kidnapped / held as captives

this will never end

as I said back when it started, another vietnam

Offline bill440cars

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2007, 12:58:07 PM »


         Does anyone think that all these terroristic acts would not be happening if we hadn't of gone over there? What about the World Trade Center? In the destruction on "9/11", Those people in the towers didn't do a thing except make the mistake of going to work that day. All those policemen and firefighters made the mistake of having been there, when the Towers collapsed. Look how many people of different nationalities dies on that day just because they were there. I saw the towers collapse and felt the anguish of knowing that those people never had a chance and would never be seen again. What about that? Are we supposed to just stand by and watch it keep on happening? I don't think so!
I don't have all the answers but, I do know that Something needs to be done.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2007, 01:17:39 PM »


         Does anyone think that all these terroristic acts would not be happening if we hadn't of gone over there? What about the World Trade Center? In the destruction on "9/11", Those people in the towers didn't do a thing except make the mistake of going to work that day. All those policemen and firefighters made the mistake of having been there, when the Towers collapsed. Look how many people of different nationalities dies on that day just because they were there. I saw the towers collapse and felt the anguish of knowing that those people never had a chance and would never be seen again. What about that? Are we supposed to just stand by and watch it keep on happening? I don't think so!
I don't have all the answers but, I do know that Something needs to be done.
                                                                Later on, Bill
I too watched the Towers come down. The thing that pizzes me off, is we do not have the head of Osama Bin Laden on dispaly in Times Square.
All these men killed and the money spent, and we don't have the real  bad guys yet? Something is very wrong here.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

holysmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2007, 02:04:48 PM »
i also watched on 9/11. i set all day


i also seen it happen, although from a distance


Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2007, 02:16:02 PM »
I think the problem that some folk here are having is distinguishing between going after the terrorists who committed the 9/11 atrocity, and invading Iraq, for an entirely different purpose. These are two entirely different issues, and shouldn't be confused as somehow being one and the same. Saddam didn't have any involvement with 9/11, he just poked his tongue out at the US once too often...........  ??? :P 
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holysmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2007, 02:33:12 PM »
too many irons in an un-righteous fire

bin laden shoulda been hunted down, with security agents

not shock and awe, that just added confusion


Offline Gordon

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2007, 02:40:52 PM »
I think the problem that some folk here are having is distinguishing between going after the terrorists who committed the 9/11 atrocity, and invading Iraq, for an entirely different purpose. These are two entirely different issues, and shouldn't be confused as somehow being one and the same. Saddam didn't have any involvement with 9/11, he just poked his tongue out at the US once too often...........  ??? :P 

I normally try to stay out of these kinds of topics on message boards, but I'm really glad you pointed out this fact, Terry.  The general public seems to have bought the govt's spin on this war that it somehow has anything to do with domestic terrorism.  It doesn't!  Invading Iraq had absolutely NOTHING to do with terrorism.  They tried to find ANY hint that there was some kind of WMD production going on in Iraq, but there was none.  So when they couldn't pin that on Iraq, they started grasping for any other reason they could think of to sell to the American people, and enough of us bought it, unfortunately.  The U.N. sure as Hell didn't buy it, and neither did the rest of the world. 

The U.S. is fast on it's way to no longer being the world's leading power, and based on the way we've been doing things lately, we don't deserve to be.

Offline bill440cars

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2007, 05:16:26 PM »


        Hey guys, I know the difference and I agree with holysmokes about hunting bin laden down with agents. I guess we could have left old Saddam alone and do nothing while he continued to torture and kill his own people. What the heck, it's only human lives that we're talking about.Of course, if our guys would have been allowed to go on into Iraq while they were over there on the Kuwaite thing, we wouldn't be doing it now.

        Btw, I hate the fact that there have been so many lives lost during this. However, I don't believe for a minute that they would have left us alone, if we hadn't gone over there. Those people have been getting ready for this for some time.

        Also, if you check it, several countries are working on Nuclear Warfare and one of these days, we're liable to be trying to dodge them and it won't do any good.

                                                   Just my thoughts,  Bill :-\

                                                                                                   
         
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holysmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2007, 06:52:39 PM »
look at bush, would you allow him to take your bike for a ride, with you on back?

same as our mighty bum boy, I mean sacred leader steven harper, he hasnt got a brain to work with

tony blair has more brains than either of these two, and thats the scary part

we have the three stooges running a  war, God help us all


Offline bill440cars

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2007, 06:55:12 PM »
look at bush, would you allow him to take your bike for a ride, with you on back?

same as our mighty bum boy, I mean sacred leader steven harper, he hasnt got a brain to work with

tony blair has more brains than either of these two, and thats the scary part

we have the three stooges running a  war, God help us all



                                                 Amen!
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bowhunter

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2007, 07:11:01 PM »
   Maybe the reasoning for going into Irag was wrong. Who really knows? History will prove this one way or the other.
     The facts are that, except for the attacks in Spain and London, Al-Qaida and assorted followers have been stymied
in causing major damage to the West. Too bad the Spaniard's caved in to them. I think we'll all see in the not too distant future, another attack in Spain. Maybe something to affect a regional election? Believe it, Spain will pay the price for cowardice. It will come back to haunt them. Bowing down to threats does not help anyone in the long term.
Just learn from history.
   The point of this all is that many radical Muslims wish the return of the Caliphate. That way, we can all be at their technological and political level. In addition,that leaves who in control? The Mula's & Sheiks that have been most vociferous in trying to get the West out of Iraq! The ones indoctrinating the youth of the Middle East into committing suicide because by doing so, they will go to heaven, and have 70 Virgins waiting for them! There's a reward for you!
If that's the truth, then why aren't there Muslin religious leaders first in line for a suicide belt? When was the last time
anyone heard of any Islamic religious leader committing suicide while taking out a group of 'Infidels'? You won't hear of that. They'll let the believer's amongst them take the hit, while they continue their rants and lies. If enough believe,
or eventually give up, they may have their way.

BUT NOT WHILE I STILL BREATH AND CAN HOLD A WEAPON!!!!!!!!

And no, I won't use a suicide belt! I can think of many much more effective ways! Care to try?

Offline Skonnie Boy

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2007, 07:16:41 PM »
Although I strongly disagree with Bowhunter's original post, the subsequent discussion on the board makes me think that not all public debate has been poisoned by mindless partisan rhetoric.  Congrats to the lot of us for not being dicks and devolving into bumper sticker bickering.

Living in Austin, I could talk to 20 people who have the same opinion as I about the war.  Its more interesting to hear from someone who has a radically different opinion.

Now who's gonna help me fix the clearcoat on my tank that I #$%*ed up?      
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Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2007, 07:17:33 PM »
Bill, terrorism has gotten worse since the invasion.  America is running totally on hubris.  No consideration for the fact that other people think and believe and worship differently than Americans.  We went over there, in part, because it's good for business.  How much got "lost"?  15 million?  Gee- gotta wonder whee THAT went, dontcha think?  Big companies know that wars are good for business.  Here's proof;

If invading Iraq is a humanitarian thing, why aren't we in Darfur?

This is like a bad TV movie.  Our government can't govern, and somehow they seem to actually be proud of it.  And people like it so much, they voted for Bush twice.  And I asked some people why they voted for him and to a person they said, "So he can finish the job he started."  

You know who voted for Bush? All the dummies that believe an adjustable-rate mortgage is a great idea.  Jeeze Low Loweeze- I'm embarrassed for this country.
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bowhunter

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2007, 07:25:41 PM »
Hey Earnie, I voted for Bush, both times, but also I voted for your buddy Clinton the first time, Everyone makes mistakes,
Clinton was one of mine, but I got over it. You need to get over the fact that not everyone agrees with you.

bowhunter

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2007, 07:39:02 PM »
Ernie,
Please enlighten me. How and where has terrorism gotten worse. I'm having a hard time understanding your post
above. You made a lot of statements with nothing to back them up. It's supposed to be a point, and then you're reasoning. Not just a bunch of statements with nothing to back it up. I think that was in Debate 101. Not sure though,
I may have slept through it!

Offline bill440cars

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2007, 08:06:49 PM »

        One thing for sure. This is another example of why a person should Never get into a discussion about Politics or Religion. Neither side will ever Win! Everyone has their own opinion about it. Make no mistake: I know that we've lost a lot of soldiers, lost a good amount of equipment, spent a lot of money and still don't have Bin Laden (still think agents going after him is a good idea and, who knows, agents may be working on that as we speak. We sure wouldn't be told about it). I also know that businesses make money off of the wars (or whatever you want to call them). 

         I'm getting out of here for now but, before I go, I have to ask if anyone can think of a President that EVERYONE agreed with? I can't. ;D

                                                             Later on, Bill :) ;)

 
« Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 08:09:56 PM by bill440cars »
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bowhunter

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2007, 08:13:50 PM »
Point #2
    I don't know this to be a fact, it's only my conjecture, but I'd be willing to put a few bucks down on a bet that
says that many of the same people that thought 125% mortgages, and interest only mortgages were a good idea also voted to put the likes of Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats back into control of the House and Senate. The two seem to fit
together. Another form of 'Bread and Circuses.
     Show me proof ,on this forum, if you disagree.

Bowhunter

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bowhunter

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2007, 08:27:12 PM »
Sorry to say Bill, I haven't seen anyone in either major party that strikes me as resonating with mainstream American people. To date, to me , all the major players are too beholden to their individual parties. America is not
Democrat or Republican. It's something in between. Until someone comes up that can satisfy the Great Middle
Ground, I'm withholding judgement. I haven't seen anyone among the major players. If anything, Obama
scares me the most of any of the contenders. I think he is a contender, and that scares HC. That could be one, UGLY,
race!

Bowhunter

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Offline ofreen

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2007, 11:27:41 PM »
The war in Iraq is about making rich men even richer.  It is about controlling the price of oil and it is about allowing contractors to loot the public treasury.

The Democrats are grandstanding now because they can get away with it politically.  They did not stand up back when it would have counted because they are political cowards.  They voted with the rest to give Bush a blank check on the invasion.  Now their grandstanding is getting our soldiers killed.  The 'insurgents' perceive the lack of will as the violence escalates, and so they escalate the violence further.  The Democrats are as despicable as the Bush administration in this.

This is going to end like Vietnam did, with desperate people dangling from our helicopters as we cut and run.  And the people responsible will never be held accountable.  They will just sit back and enjoy their blood money, and look for ways to make some more somewhere else.

As you might be able to tell, I have an opinion about all this.
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Offline Tvag

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Re: Thoughts on Iraq 2nd Post
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2007, 06:28:12 AM »
Ernie,
Please enlighten me. How and where has terrorism gotten worse. I'm having a hard time understanding your post
above. You made a lot of statements with nothing to back them up. It's supposed to be a point, and then you're reasoning. Not just a bunch of statements with nothing to back it up. I think that was in Debate 101. Not sure though,
I may have slept through it!

Hi Bill. Ernie is correct. Terrorism has increased.

Definition for Terrorism.
http://www.globalterrorism101.com/UTDefinition.html

Terrorism on the Increase

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/26/AR2005042601623.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/20/AR2007022001566.html

http://www.motherjones.com/news/featurex/2007/03/iraq_effect_1.html
The sources for this article are authoritative and credible, many from our own government. See below...
http://www.motherjones.com/news/featurex/2007/03/sources.html

Regarding Darfur...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3496731.stm
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