Author Topic: Question for the battery gurus...what's a starter draw?  (Read 3392 times)

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Offline Jinxracing

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Question for the battery gurus...what's a starter draw?
« on: March 29, 2007, 10:31:52 AM »
I searched the forum but couldn't find the answer to this one... How much current will a CB750 starter draw (roughly), assuming that the engine is stock and all components are in reasonably good condition? I found a post by TwoTired saying that max current draw for the CB750 electrical system at full load is 10-11 amps, but he didn't specify if that was steady-state running or with the starter engaged.

The reason I ask is because I found a battery with the dimensions that I need for my custom project, but it's rated at 5AH with a maximum discharge rate of 75A for 5 seconds. I'm wondering how much cranking time I'm going to get before I have to start using the kickstarter.  ;D

Jinx
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Offline super pasty white guy

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Re: Question for the battery gurus...what's a starter draw?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2007, 10:47:37 AM »
I knew I'd seen that discussed somewhere... according to this thread, 100-150 amps.

http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=17516.15
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Offline Jinxracing

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Re: Question for the battery gurus...what's a starter draw?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2007, 10:55:42 AM »
Aha! Thanks for the link. That brings up three other questions then...

1. If I use a single 5AH/75A@5s battery will I get any cranking at all?
2. Will doing so damage the battery (or myself)?
3. If I were to wire two of these batteries together in parallel to get twice the capacity will things work out alright?

Jinx
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Offline kslrr

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Re: Question for the battery gurus...what's a starter draw?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2007, 11:02:58 AM »
The problem with wiring two batteries together is that they may not charge the same.  That is why in cars with a dual battery setup, there is an electronics module that controls the charge (and discharge) to/from each battery.  But then again, I am one for always trying something just to see what happens (it is a wonder I am still alive).
Now  1972 CB350FX (experimental v2.0)
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Then 1972 CL175
        1964 Yamaha YGS-1T
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Question for the battery gurus...what's a starter draw?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2007, 11:36:46 AM »
1. If I use a single 5AH/75A@5s battery will I get any cranking at all?
yes

2. Will doing so damage the battery (or myself)?
Well, yes.  Normal lead acid starter batteries are not designed for deep discharge cycle functions.  This has to do with reformation of the internal metal plates during recharge and plate separator technology.  Much depends on how quickly your bike starts at the push of the button, which relates to how deeply discharged the battery gets.  The deeper the discharge cycles, the shorter the battery life, where the battery has diminished capacity as it nears end of life.  It will wear out quickly, which is a form of damage, I suppose.  It depends on your life cycle needs.  A weekend? no problem! 5 years? I think not.

3. If I were to wire two of these batteries together in parallel to get twice the capacity will things work out alright?
yes... and no.
Batteries in parallel will share the load evenly during discharge, provided both are charged to the same capacity level. So, that works out at first.  In reality, you have 12 cells.  These cells are generally the same but not exactly matched to each other.  Some cells will have just a little bit lower voltage than others.  In a series configuration the cells expend the same power during discharge.  In a parallel configuration they do also, only if the cells are well matched  The lower voltage ones slack off during discharge in a parallel configuration and don't discharge as deeply. The problem comes in recharge and repeated drain/charge cycles.  Some cells are more deeply depleted than others.  Providing charge current to replenish those, overcharges the ones that were loafing.  Charging enough to replenish the shallow depleted batteries, undercharges the what-were-once-strong-cells.  So, the battery assembly doesn't get charged to full capacity, and the strong cells may begin to sulfate.

So again, it will work for a while.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Jinxracing

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Re: Question for the battery gurus...what's a starter draw?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2007, 11:54:28 AM »
Thanks for the info. I think this one is going to get filed under the rule of, "Probably not the best idea, but I'm going to do it anyway".

Same rule applies to dating strippers and "cheap" vehicle restoration projects.  ;)

Jinx
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Offline kslrr

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Re: Question for the battery gurus...what's a starter draw?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2007, 03:23:23 PM »
Good comparison.  I dated a stripper once.
Now  1972 CB350FX (experimental v2.0)
        1981 CB650c Custom with '79 engine (wifes)
        1981 CB650 engine
        2004 HD XL883C Custom
        1977 Yamaha XS750D (in progress)
Then 1972 CL175
        1964 Yamaha YGS-1T
No ride is a Bad ride

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Question for the battery gurus...what's a starter draw?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2007, 04:29:36 PM »
Good comparison.  I dated a stripper once.
U are my hero.  ;D
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Offline bryanj

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Re: Question for the battery gurus...what's a starter draw?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2007, 09:43:05 AM »
I thought about it once but decided i couldnt stand the bits of walpaper everywhere
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

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