Author Topic: Phantom  (Read 5450 times)

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Offline gerhed

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Phantom
« on: April 06, 2007, 09:49:11 AM »
F4

<a href="http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u251/gearheaded_photos/phantom.swf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u251/gearheaded_photos/phantom.swf</a>
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 08:25:47 AM by gerhed »
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kettlesd

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2007, 10:08:48 AM »
Great Pics!

Ive always had a soft spot for Phantoms. First time i felt the echo of overhead afterburners rumble in my chest was a pair of visiting American Phantoms to the Base i grew up on here in Canada. Awesome!

Sean

Offline Rushoid

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2007, 10:12:59 AM »
That's funny, I was just looking at pics on the Internet of the old "Double Ugly." My dad used to work for McDonnell Douglas on the F-4 radar. He's got a load of stories about test pilots, etc. I've even seen a couple of pics, in books, with him standing in the background. Somewhere, stashed away, he's got a roll of film from the nose camera. Nothing special, just inside the hangar, guys standing around, that sort of thing, but I thought it was cool because of where it came from. Bill440 worked on these too.

As always, great pictures!  8)

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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2007, 11:15:13 AM »
bad ass airplane
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Offline SD750F

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2007, 11:21:12 AM »
Hey, if anyone is interested I have a original T.O. 1F-4C-1 Flight Manual for the USAF Series F-4C, F-4D, and F-4E Aircraft published 15 August 1972 for sale. Was thinking of putting it on eBay but maybe someone here will make me an offer...

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ledbetter

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2007, 01:32:50 PM »
Man loved the pic's of the f-4,there used to be 2 re con squadrons based here in Birmingham,You could all ways tell when the were flying ,just from the sound of those engines,a very distinct sound ,man I miss seeing those birds over head.

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2007, 01:46:18 PM »
I like the instructions painted on the intake cover, "Remove before Flight." Truly military. It reminds me of the signage we had in our compound, it had four different color panels. White meant everything was quiet, gray was sort of, hmm something is up, yellow meant a compound nearby was under attack and red meant our compound was under attack. I always wondered who needed red and what poor fool had the job of hoisting it. ;D
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2007, 04:24:49 PM »

    Hey Phil,
           Thanks for posting those pictures. Crewed a 63' F4C Phantom II (tail# 0595) for 2 years in Japan with TDY time in Korea. Used to have to go down those intakes before and after flights, checking for any loose rivets, cracked panels, etc. Couldn't do that now, kinda put on a spread. ;D Worked on an F106 (tail# 063) for the rest of my time in the Air Force and the F4 was my favorite of the 2.

    Sean,
           Yeah, there's something about a Phantom in afterburner! 8) I also like to hear an F104 flying around to make an approach, it has a distinctive howl (the F4 Phantom, F104 Starfighter and B58 Hustler all used the J79 engines). I once saw an F4 on the trim pad, being run in Full Military Power and Afterburner on both engines for a very short time. Talk about impressive! :o 8)


     Lee,

           That's cool that your Dad used to work for McDonnell Douglas, I had thoughts but, didn't follow through with the additional training and all. Nice of you to remember that I used to work on them too.

     ledbetter,

           Always knew when an F4 was in the area, by the sound of those engines.

           You ought to see seven of them loaded with a nuclear bomb and ready to roll at a moments notice, I have and it's an awesome sight.

                                                     Later on, Bill :) ;)     
       
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Offline Dusthawk

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2007, 11:34:03 PM »
Bill440 or Rushoid, din't the F-4 have a nicknme duu to the dark rtail they left behind in any throttle positon other than aftebrner? I seem to remember something about that somewhere. Im sorry for the spelling, kinda lit up tonite.

J
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2007, 07:53:41 AM »
Bill440 or Rushoid, din't the F-4 have a nicknme duu to the dark rtail they left behind in any throttle positon other than aftebrner? I seem to remember something about that somewhere. Im sorry for the spelling, kinda lit up tonite.

J

        I don't recall, right off, about a nickname. I do remember that the Crew Chiefs were called "Phantom Fixers". On another note, the F101 was called the VooDoo and their Crew Chiefs were called "Witch Doctors". That's all I can think of for now. What about it Lee, do you have an answer for Jeff?

                                                      Later on, Bill :) ;)         
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Offline xtalon

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2007, 08:27:24 AM »
If I'm not mistaken, I believe pilot slang for any aircraft that give away their position by dark exhaust are called 'smokers'.  Not sure if this is what you heard or even if my memory is correct.
 ???
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Offline burmashave

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2007, 09:33:01 AM »
Gerherd, thanks again for pictures.  I've always had a soft spot for the Phantoms.  I nicknamed my old  Chevy pickup after the "Lead Sled."  Like the Phantom, it was very fast in one direction only.
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Offline kslrr

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2007, 10:06:10 AM »
Cool pics.  I love the look of the F-4 over any of the other fighters.  It's shape just says, "I am all business, look out!".  Next in line for cool looking planes are the B-52, F-14 and the B-2B.
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2007, 10:42:01 AM »
Cool pics.  I love the look of the F-4 over any of the other fighters.  It's shape just says, "I am all business, look out!".  Next in line for cool looking planes are the B-52, F-14 and the B-2B.

           I hear ya, I like those too. I also like the B58 Hustler, F104 Star Fighter and the SR71. The F4 is my favorite though, with the F14 Tomcat behind it.

                                                      Later on, Bill :) ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2007, 11:30:10 AM »


        How's this look?

       

        F4E     
 
       

                                                  Later on, Bill :) ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2007, 11:57:45 AM »
   
                Found this, while I was browsing the Phantom subject, titled "Super Phantom". No pictures though. :( 

             http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f4_34.html
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 11:59:37 AM by bill440cars »
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline kslrr

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2007, 06:28:16 PM »
Cool pics bill!
Now  1972 CB350FX (experimental v2.0)
        1981 CB650c Custom with '79 engine (wifes)
        1981 CB650 engine
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        1977 Yamaha XS750D (in progress)
Then 1972 CL175
        1964 Yamaha YGS-1T
No ride is a Bad ride

bowhunter

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2007, 08:39:13 PM »
    I sometimes wonder how the '70's warbirds would fare against their counterparts now, with upgraded engines
and electronics. Given equal pilot capability, they'd still be able to hold there own, in a dogfight, I think.
     I spent almost 3 years working on and around Phanthoms in Thailand and Viet Nam around 70-73 and still
can recall the sounds and vibration of a flight leaving ground. Nothin' to compare with it!!

Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2007, 08:46:56 PM »
Cool pics bill!

        Thanks, just tryin to share what I like and what i seems like a number of you all like also. I'm very proud of the time I spent being a Crew Chief and wish that I hadn't of been so much in a hurry to get out of the Air Force. I really enjoyed my job and the time spent working on the planes. ;) 8) That would be hindsight kickin in, wouldn't it? ??? Oh well, I've got my memories (for now at least ;D)

                                                        Later on, Bill :) ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2007, 09:53:46 PM »
Quote
I once saw an F4 on the trim pad, being run in Full Military Power and Afterburner on both engines for a very short time. Talk about impressive! 

Yes, it is!  But, that was routine for Navy F4s waiting for the Cat to trigger on the Kitty Hawk.  It's loud for sure. Even if you are trying to sleep below the cats during flight ops. The ship vibrates from the jet motors! They would often launch them more or less in formation 1..2, during which time both F4s on the forward cats would be turning full military and AB simultaneously.  Though I never saw it done personally, they would also launch two more off the angle deck for a flight of four.  That meant 4 Phantoms at full military and AB rarin' to go, waiting for the cat officers to push the go button.  I can almost feel that in my chest just thinking about it.

In the early 70s, El Centro, CA was the winter home of the Blue Angels; said so right on the big sign at the base entrance.  There is a bombing range nearby, and our training squadron of A7s was "deployed" to El Centro for bombing exercises.
The Blue Angels were using F4s at the time and we had routine "air shows" between our sorties.  One of the things that almost became routine is that they would come back in tight formation subsonic from wherever and buzz the ground crews at about 50-100 ft.  We'd have our heads under the radome wrenching on something, and whosh-roar and shake your world time.  Never-ever saw them coming.  And, if you looked where the sound was (the natural response), they were already in the opposite direction, and by the time you turned around, the sky was blank, all you could see was the surrounding aircraft, hangars and a faint smoke trail.  I think they were actually buzzing their own ground crew and anybody else were just unsuspecting bystanders. Definitely got your heart pounding.

The Navy F4s used ground start turbine vehicles we called huffers.  They blew air at the turbine blades to get them spinning and compressing on their own.  When they lit off, they were then self sustaining.  You may have seen the Blue Angel pilots march in formation down the flight line, peeling off one at a time in front of their airplane, then approaching the plane and mounting it in unison. 

The ground crews would get into showman act, driving the yellow huffers around in formation down the ramp and turning in unison toward the planes with a formation stop, hose hook up, simultaneous startup of the huffer turbine, all to some unheard cadence count.  I never found out if they were serious or knowingly attempting comedy, but it was damn funny to watch, nonetheless.  Not to belittle the skill need to do this, mind you.  I don't remember seeing the ground crews do this at public shows.

Normally, the planes would all start up, taxi out to the run-up area in formation, do the run-up checks, then taxi onto the runway...in formation, wind up making big plumes of black smoke, hit AB and takeoff in formation.  It was loud and awesome.  We saw this so many times, it nearly became boring. (HA!) Then one time we watched the routine, they made all the black smoke at the end of the runway, and then taxied back...in formation and parked.  That was odd... Then we noticed two of the planes had severe wing tip damage.  Apparently, one of the plane's AB delayed lighting up...crunch!  Hanger lights were on late into the night for several nights after that.



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Offline techy5025

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2007, 10:38:22 PM »
In the early 70's, I worked for an aerospace company that sent me to Ubon, Thailand to troubleshoot a problem with a system we had installed on the F4's. This was back before the advent of avionics electrical buses an so everything had its own user defined wiring harness.

I was seated in the back seat of an F4 trying to locate a broken wire buried in a wiring harness when one of the airmen there to keep an eye on us told me in his best Alabama accent that they "had one of these here ejector seats go off accidentally last week".  :o :o :o My movements at that point consisted of very limited eye movement! Turns out that upon the pilots exiting the aircraft after a mission, it was the ground crews job to "safety" the seat by installing pins in the arm, shoulder, and leg ejector seat handles. The problem was that all the pins were tied to a long strap with a loose end. When the poor guy sat in the seat on the loose end, the seat cushion compacted just enough to pull one of the pins. He then evidently grabbed one of the handles to move around and was treated to a fast fatal exit from the plane.

I always checked the strap after that warning!  ;D I loved working around the planes though.  It was always interesting to watch the pilots get out and walk around the plane looking for bullet holes.

Jim
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Offline CrisPDuk

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2007, 01:17:59 AM »


        How's this look?

       

       

From there? F'kin scary :o

Why do you ask :)
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Offline gerhed

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2007, 04:49:16 AM »
Was on a Navy Seabee base 10 miles north of DaNang in '68.
Very dark night--no moonlight.
A cruiser was sitting out in the DaNang Bay .
All you could see of the cruiser was one red light at the top.
A lot of incoming rockets that night and at one point a rocket could be seen
coming off the mountain that led up to the Hai Van Pass--headed out towards the Cruiser's light.
It missed, I guess, but a few seconds later "blip" the light was
turned out.
The rocket launch site was seen, though and soon 2 or 3 F4's came up from the
DaNang air base and put on quite a show working out
on the mountainside.
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Offline medic09

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2007, 05:02:22 AM »
GREAT PICS!

We had an RN/Paramedic instructor in ABQ who has an ejection seat saved from an F4 as his office chair.  Everything in that office is F4.

When I was in south Lebanon in the 80s (mostly around Tzur/Tyre), the IAF was still flying one of the last active F4 squadrons for ground support.  We LOVED watching those guys come in, though one was shot down near Tzur.  The navigator is still MIA (Ron Arad) to this day.

Okay, gerhed, how about some pics of my all-time favorite:  the C-130?  Anybody ever seen the altimeter needle going backwards on one of those?  You can if you drop down by the Dead Sea.  :o  I think IAF Hercules are still analog.  ::)
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Offline burmashave

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2007, 05:23:38 AM »
Here are a few more Phantom links:

Engineering the F-4 Phantom II: Parts into Systems
This is one of the best pieces of technology history I've read.  The F4 was one of the first technological "platforms" -- a piece of technology so complex that no one person could know all the details of all of its components.  Its production paved the way for "black box" development in which sub-components are specified in terms of inputs, outputs and dimensions.  These sub-components are then designed and implemented by dedicated teams.  Note that a reviewer on amazon.com cites numerous factual errors in the book.  Perhaps there are some serious errors; however, the theme of the book remains unchallenged.  The F4 project was a groundbreaking effort in terms of how complex systems are developed.

http://www.f-4.nl/
These gents have collected a massive amount of F4 photos, and they have collected a good bit of history about them, too.


Vids
Phantom: Nice Shot
Phantom WICKED Low
Phantom Crash Test Against Concrete Wall

Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War
It would be an understatement to say that the story of John Boyd is fascinating.  He was genius, completely self-made, irrepressible and a rogue.  Despite all of the attempts of the Pentagon brass to keep him down, Boyd was singlehandedly the greatest influence on fighter and attack aircraft developed after the Phantom, and he contributed more to the theory of air combat than any other in Air Force history.  Nevertheless, when he died in '97, only two Air Force officers attended his Arlington funeral.  Yet, Marines bestowed upon Boyd highest burial honors by burying him with the Marine Corps globe and anchor insignia.  The Marines recognized the value of Boyd's Energy-Maneuverability Theory (E-M).  E-M theory application can be seen in the armored attack on Baghdad, and it is relevant in many other areas.
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