Author Topic: largest rear tire possible?  (Read 6668 times)

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keepitrunin

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largest rear tire possible?
« on: April 06, 2007, 07:19:50 PM »
i tried the search feature,but i did not see an answer for this. what is the largest rear tire that will fit on a 1976 cb750f ss with stock frame and rim? whats on there now is a 5.10 85 18, whatever that converts to i couldn't tell you! please help?

Offline david 750f

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2007, 03:54:33 AM »
Running a Dunlop GT501 130/80-18 on my 1976 CB750F and it fits no problem. I believe that is the same as a 5.10 width..Be aware that different brands will not measure exactly the same.. I don't think that you can can go any wider on the stock rim.
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Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2007, 04:15:16 AM »
Im running a 130/90-17 on a DID aluminum rim on mine.....had to bend the brake stay a little to clear it.

liaudio

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2007, 05:07:05 AM »
A 130/80 or 130/90 should be about it on the stock rim. 

keepitrunin

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2007, 03:15:32 PM »
thanks, that helped alot. now can you tell me what 3.50v19 is on the front or is that a measurment that is used in today's  market?

Offline KB02

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2007, 03:27:36 PM »
110/90-19 is what's on my 76 750F.
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Offline 333

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 06:43:27 PM »
It is best to stay with the stock size tire. We are talking about a curved tire, not a flat car tire.  If you go bigger without going with a bigger rim, you put more curvature in the tire leaving you with less rubber in contact with the ground(less traction)  Looks cool, but not safe.

Tire height is also affected.  In inch tires(4.00 x 18) the aspect ratio (the middle number in metric sizes) is always 90% unless otherwise specified.  This is indicated by an odd number to the right of the decimal point that is not in quarter inch increments.  4.00 = 4 inch, 4.25 =4 1/4 inch, but 4.85 = 4 inch with an 85% aspect.  And the point I am trying to make is that height changes affect steering and handling.  Most times mildly, but sometimes very noticibly.  I had a CB750K3 that had a 130/90X18 on it   It always felt like it "fell" off  when I turned from straight, but when I put the stock 4.00X18 on it didn't do it anymore.

Now, when changing to the newer metric sizes, you may have to go larger. and a little isn't so bad.  But don't go smaller.  I've heard horror stories of an innertube pushing a smaller tire off a rim!!!

Bacl in the day (sonny) the hot lick thing to do was to put a 16" rim on a CB750.  They called it a chopper tire.  Talk about messing with steering geometry!
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Zane

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 07:14:48 PM »
It is best to stay with the stock size tire. We are talking about a curved tire, not a flat car tire.  If you go bigger without going with a bigger rim, you put more curvature in the tire leaving you with less rubber in contact with the ground(less traction)  Looks cool, but not safe.

Tire height is also affected.  In inch tires(4.00 x 18) the aspect ratio (the middle number in metric sizes) is always 90% unless otherwise specified.  This is indicated by an odd number to the right of the decimal point that is not in quarter inch increments.  4.00 = 4 inch, 4.25 =4 1/4 inch, but 4.85 = 4 inch with an 85% aspect.  And the point I am trying to make is that height changes affect steering and handling.  Most times mildly, but sometimes very noticibly.  I had a CB750K3 that had a 130/90X18 on it   It always felt like it "fell" off  when I turned from straight, but when I put the stock 4.00X18 on it didn't do it anymore.

Now, when changing to the newer metric sizes, you may have to go larger. and a little isn't so bad.  But don't go smaller.  I've heard horror stories of an innertube pushing a smaller tire off a rim!!!

Bacl in the day (sonny) the hot lick thing to do was to put a 16" rim on a CB750.  They called it a chopper tire.  Talk about messing with steering geometry!

From everything I've learned on this site and elsewhere, I'd have to say "DITTO".


sohc4

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 02:24:37 PM »
It is best to stay with the stock size tire. We are talking about a curved tire, not a flat car tire.  If you go bigger without going with a bigger rim, you put more curvature in the tire leaving you with less rubber in contact with the ground(less traction)  Looks cool, but not safe.
I can only second that.  For the stock 2.15" rear rim, a 100/90 would be the correct tire. Anything wider than a 110 will probably add to the looks, but it will do no good to handling and safety.

keepitrunin

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 05:45:36 PM »
whats the differnce as far as safety goes between a 110/80 and a 110/90?so what does 5.10 85 18 convert to? is it 130/80/18?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 05:47:40 PM by keepitrunin »

eldar

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2007, 06:26:09 AM »
And why does this keep getting dredged up? This topic shows up almost every month!   A 110/90-19 will work fine on the front...MAYBE.  Just like shoes, tire sizes can vary from one tire to another.  I know with my spitfires, the 11 works great on the front. on the back I run a 130/90-19. HOWEVER, my rear rim is also wider than the earlier 750 rims. The 77/78 had a wider rear rim.

KC, why did you have to bend the brake? Unless it was bent wrong in the first place, or not a correct part, you should not have had to bend it at all.

Offline ProTeal55

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2007, 06:28:28 AM »
Gots a 130mm on a 16'' wheel on the back of my scoot and it fits just fine...
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 07:43:16 AM by ProTeal55 »
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eldar

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2007, 07:08:18 AM »
I think a 130 is fine. Some though talk about the tire rounding too much and so stock is gospel to them. I think every tire has to be looked at on its own.

Zane

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2007, 08:01:46 AM »
I'm not sure about stock tire size being "gospel" to me, but I do confess to quite an interest in excellent quality tire performance when it comes to the question of what tires to put on my motorcycle.

As for the topic question, I found both the Metzeler Full Range Tire Guide Booklet and the Metzeler email responses to my questions very helpful.  (I'm not promoting Metzeler - but these two resources did help me understand and then choose tire size(s) for my bike.)

The booklet has a maximum and minimum rim size for every tire they make.  The rims on my little 400F are pretty small, so my choices were quite limited (especially for the front wheel).  I'm sure you would have more choices for a 750.

I also emailed Metzeler with the rim sizes and the Honda recommended tire sizes and asked them what they could offer.  They sent me back a list of what they make that I could use (a very short list).

Cheers and good luck.

Uncleben89

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2007, 08:13:04 AM »
I'm just waiting for TT to blow a gasket when he reads yet another post about this.

Offline tsflstb

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2007, 08:28:37 AM »
I think the new 400 series might rub a little.


Offline ProTeal55

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2007, 08:58:32 AM »
I think the new 400 series might rub a little.
I plan to put those on my next project bike, front & rear !  ;D
Joe a.k.a ProTeal55 a.k.a JoeyCocks a.k.a Maker of Friends

Offline Gordon

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2007, 10:54:46 AM »
I think the new 400 series might rub a little.



Dang!!  That thing could roll sideways! :o

Offline rhinoracer

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2007, 11:16:12 AM »
I'm just waiting for TT to blow a gasket when he reads yet another post about this.

I haven't chipped in on the other posts so here goes my $0.02:

I've found that on stock size tires I could roll off and the tires would stick to the pavement almost immediately. With the same tires but 1 size larger it took about a mile for the tire to warm up and stick.

When cold if I gassed it while leaned the rear would lose traction and skid sideways.

Whatever results you get will depend on several factors, rubber compound, profile, thread design, actual size, bike weight, gearing, horsepower, rider weight and riding style.

In other words you'll have to do your own trial and error sessions. If you only want to know the largest size tire that will surely fit, 130-90 with the stock rear and wheel.
Baja native.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2007, 12:53:12 PM »
I'm just waiting for TT to blow a gasket when he reads yet another post about this.

(sigh)
No.  I can't stop people from doing stupid things.  Or, from trying to convince others for doing stupid or experimental things at their own expense.

The facts as I understand them are:
Tire manufacturers did, and still do, design and make tires to perform with specific sized rims both diameter and width.
Honda designed the bike for the tires available at the time of manufacture.  This dictated the rim width and diameter they incorporated into the bike.
Tire designs changed over the last 30 years.
Newer bikes have wider rims to function properly with the newer, wider, designs from tire manufacturers. 

Can you physically put a Phillips screwdriver into your or someone else's eye?  Yes.
Do Phillips screwdriver manufacturers recommend you do this?  None that I am aware of.
Will someone do this anyway?  Yes, I'm afraid so.  And, there is no guarantee that the perpetrator will be punished, either.

Can you physically put a wide tire onto a narrow rim if you really want to?  Yes.
Do tire manufacturers recommend you do this? None that I am aware of.
Will someone do this anyway?  Yes, I'm afraid so.  And, there is no guarantee that the perpetrator will be punished, either.

There is no concise, available, generic data on just how much performance is lost by putting a wide tire on a narrow rim.    Many who do this seem primarily concerned with the tire's basic ability to roll (and something else not clearly defined inside the cranium), rather than what the actual performance envelope of the tire wheel combo actually is.  Further, many have neither the means nor the ability to do the tests and measure the performance envelope of oversize tire on narrow rim combinations.  Certainly little I've seen includes annoying variables like tread design, rubber composition, carcass shape/construction, road surface type/condition, temperature, and longevity.

It is unfortunate that those bold pioneers who DO have the skills, means, and opportunity to test and measure the performance envelope of oversize tires on narrow rims, don't freely offer that interesting and valuable data to those that desperately need it.

Until then, I will rely on manufacturer recommendations, as my experiences/experiments surely seem to support them.  I can only suggest you do the same.  As there are known reasons why an oversize tire on a narrow rim does not perform as well as a tire with the proper rim width.

Can you get thousands of miles on ill-fitting tires?  Yes, it's possible.
Will you get all the traction you need when the emergency or need arrises?
For some, the image of the avant-guard daredevil is part of the allure of motorcycles, and worth the risk of experimentation.  Chicks may dig scars, but they grow weary of a blank stare and wiping away the drool.

I hope whatever you decide appeases the inner cranium and leaves you with sight in both your eyes.

Despairingly yours,


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keepitrunin

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2007, 01:15:30 PM »
awsome response "tt". thanks alot. i am an idiot so can you tell me what 5.10/85/18 converts to todays market so i can order another one please.

Offline Gordon

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2007, 01:21:59 PM »
awsome response "tt". thanks alot. i am an idiot so can you tell me what 5.10/85/18 converts to todays market so i can order another one please.

5.1 inches is 127mm, so if you want to match the size, look for a 130/85-18.

eldar

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2007, 01:38:48 PM »
But TT, you feel that way about virtually everything stock, even if there is something that is proven to be better. Now that it is getting nicer out, I will take a pic this weekend of my front and rear tires. I am pretty sure they are NOT pinched at least no more than is needed to keep the tire on the rim!

Offline TwoTired

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2007, 02:42:35 PM »
awsome response "tt". thanks alot. i am an idiot so can you tell me what 5.10/85/18 converts to todays market so i can order another one please.

Look here:

http://www.cycleshopusa.com/motorcycle_tires.htm

Perhaps they have information you are more likely to appreciate.

Good Luck!
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Gordon

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2007, 03:10:42 PM »
Just because someone doesn't do something the way you think they should do it, doesn't mean they don't appreciate your input.

Zane

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2007, 03:13:28 PM »
When I began riding (22 months ago) I had to buy a new front tire for my 400F.  A man who should have known better sold me a tire too big for the rim.  It took me a few months to figure out why the tire was too big.  It wasn't too big to fit on the rim at all.  It appeared, to my novice eyes, to fit very well, in fact.  It also looked pretty good, I thought.

After about 3 months I met a fellow who builds and races vintage motorcycles.  The first thing he said when he saw my bike was "your front tire's too big".  He explained to me how the bigger tire actually put less rubber on the road in a turn than the smaller, closer to stock size of tire.  The apparent paradox got my attention.

I didn't really understand it as clearly as I would have liked too, however.  It still seemed to me that bigger was somehow better.  

That notion was pretty much dispelled when I attended some modern and vintage motorcycle track races.  Basically what I saw was this - regardless of the size of the tire or of the rim, all the racing bikes seemed to have one thing in common - the angle of the sidewall measured from vertical on the wheel was always pretty flat.  (I mean the angle from the actual rim edge to the outside margin of the tread was minimal.)  

On my front tire, because it was meant for use on a bigger rim, the same angle was 25 to 30 degrees or more.  I'd never really noticed that before, and if I did notice it, I didn't think it was important.  When I saw racing bikes however, I quickly saw where the angle of the sidewall between the rim and the tread perimeter is integral to the performance of the tire under load or stress (that is, under operating conditions).

So that's when I got interested in getting more appropriate size tires.  I moved down a size with my current front tire, and I feel better with the finer tread and straighter sidewalls.

I can't really talk knowledgeably about all the technical specifics and such, but I have a lot of faith in my own intuition, and after a certain point of taking in information, with the stock rim size it just makes sense to me to use the size of tire that the designer(s) of the bike determined provided the most safety, performance, and durability.

You might be right however, when claiming that advances in technology allows drastic deviation from the factory stock recommendations.  (I think I have good tire sizes on my 400f, and they're still a bit bigger than the stock recommendations.)  But I can't get over the jangle in my brain whenever I see a sidewall jutting out at a pronounced angle from a rim.  The most modern technology regardless - it just doesn't seem to make sense considering what I've learned about motorcycle tires over the last couple of years.

I also have a lot of faith in the tire companies to be quick to advertise and promote the latest features of their respective lines of motorcycle tires.  That faith leads me to believe that if a certain size tire would be safe to use on a certain size rim, they'd let me know it.  Their guidelines and tire fitments charts are probably already stretching fitting ranges to the maximum limits (legal/liability wise) as it is.

..... anyway - I run on ........


 


Offline 333

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Re: largest rear tire possible?
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2007, 01:30:08 PM »
Something that is being missed in this thread and the other thread on the subject is type of tire and compounds.  Most people that want bigger tires are looking for more traction.  This can be had by looking at sport compounds.  The trade off is less life.  It's a softer rubber and wears quicker.  A touring tire lasts longer, but has less traction.  Then the sad truth is that for the bikes we love(vintage and getting older by the minute) the selection is growing smaller.  Sure, you can find the exact tires for a 350F, but I wouldn't take them up to highway speeds!!

Tucker/Rocky is a distributer of M/C parts, and their catalog is online.  They have a cross reference that will help in finding the coirrect size of tire.  It's not 100% correct, but it is close.  And pg 88 has a great primer on sizes, types, speed ratings and conversions from inches to metric.

http://www.powersportrider.com/cgi-bin/zcatjpg

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