Author Topic: Phantom  (Read 5451 times)

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Offline gerhed

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2007, 06:17:13 AM »
GREAT PICS!

We had an RN/Paramedic instructor in ABQ who has an ejection seat saved from an F4 as his office chair.  Everything in that office is F4.

When I was in south Lebanon in the 80s (mostly around Tzur/Tyre), the IAF was still flying one of the last active F4 squadrons for ground support.  We LOVED watching those guys come in, though one was shot down near Tzur.  The navigator is still MIA (Ron Arad) to this day.

Okay, gerhed, how about some pics of my all-time favorite:  the C-130?  Anybody ever seen the altimeter needle going backwards on one of those?  You can if you drop down by the Dead Sea.  :o  I think IAF Hercules are still analog.  ::)

Did I hear someone say C130--also one of my favorites.
Plus you get your younger corespondent in the chair.
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2007, 07:29:22 AM »


       TT, The F4 being run up , that I was talking about, was on the TRIM PAD, That is where we took the plane, when the engine had been replace or worked on and the plane's engines would be started and run up one at a time because the TRIM PAD wasn't intended to have both engines running full power an ab at the same time. There would be no where for the plane to go, if it came loose.

        As far as I know, all the F4s were started the same way. Usually we used a "power unit" (had a small turbine engine in it), hooked the hose up to the engine's starter and the thrust spun the starter and that was geared to spin the rotors. On a occasion, we would use the Cartridge Start. That was a system that had a cannister you could take off, install a cartridge (about 10" in diameter) in it and the pilot could set it off to spin the starter. The Cartridge was described to us as being like a large shotgun shell without pellets or slugs. It just put out a huge force of air, along with a lot of black smoke. Just threw that in for information purposes. ;)

                                                           Later on, Bill :) ;)         
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Offline xtalon

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2007, 07:35:31 AM »
    I sometimes wonder how the '70's warbirds would fare against their counterparts now, with upgraded engines
and electronics. Given equal pilot capability, they'd still be able to hold there own, in a dogfight, I think.


An F-4 with modern avionics and engines would do fine with BVR (Beyond Visual Range) engagements because it would all be based on the avionics and weapons, but it would get totally dominated in a dogfight -- modern aerodynamics, airframes, fly by wire, etc.   Be like putting a CB750 up against a CBR1000RR... but just like the CB750, I would rather see/own/fly an F-4 than that ugly F-22 thing.  :)

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2007, 12:33:05 PM »
Hey Bill,
The Kitty Hawk had it's own engine test cell located on the fan tail.  They would rebuild engines on the ship and test them back there lashed to the ship with the exhaust facing sternward.  We used to joke about the ship moving faster those days and having a jet propelled carrier.  The ship never did get airborne though. :D  The squadron crews would have engine sound wars when multiple engines were being tested.  Our TRIM PAD, as it were, was on the flight deck near and above the engine test cell at the round down.  Of course, any plane parked on a carrier deck had at minimum 6 chains holding it the deck, and on the flight deck the minimum was 12 (which the plane captain carried when the plane was in motion).  But, that's where they would run them up after engine changes to test them.  I never thought they were as loud back there as waiting on the cat, though.  It's the orientation to the exhaust, I think.  All the jet engines used on the carrier had similar test procedures and were run up on the ship.  We had A3s, A5s, A6s, A7s, and F4s.  The F4s were certainly the loudest.  Pretty much all of them could be heard below decks, and certianly in the sleeping quarters.  We learned, eventually, to sleep during all the noise they could produce, including cat firing, and arresting operations.  Did you know?  When the F4's land, they hit full military and AB when the wheels hit the deck?

One of the differences between Air Force and Navy plane variants was that of self start capability.  At least during the era I was involved.  Navy planes had to have that huffer. The Air Force planes could start that way, too, I'm sure.  But, they had a means to get going without it, as well.  Must have been some kind of a weight penalty for that.  I was never privy to the exact reasoning behind that design.  But, I never saw a Navy F4, A6, or A7 in 1970-72 start without a huffer.  I was in an A7 quadron.  The Navy A7Es could not be started without a huffer, or a dive from altitude.   But, an A7D (Air Force variant of the Corsair II) could self start on the ramp all by its lonesome.

Do these qualify as war stories?  ;D
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2007, 02:12:54 PM »
         Hey TT,
                That's some cool stuff that you shared about the Carrier operations. I've always marveled at the carrier take offs and especially the landings! When I was stationed at Hamilton AFB in California, we had a Navy pilot that was somehow assigned to our squadron and he shared his experiences with us. At that time though, I was assigned to an Air Defense Command with F106s Called the Delta Dart. Just did some quick browsing and found this. While checking this link out, keep in mind that I was stationed at Hamilton AFB from around Dec 69 til I was discharged in August 70.

           http://www.convairf-106deltadart.com/590063Page.html
 
     


             
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 02:20:05 PM by bill440cars »
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
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Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2007, 02:36:06 PM »


          Also meant to tell you TT, that I didn't know that about the full military power and full AB when landing on a carrier. 8) This has a been very interesting conversion. ;) One more thing on the F106

             
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2007, 03:13:33 PM »
Quote
Also meant to tell you TT, that I didn't know that about the full military power and full AB when landing on a carrier.
Just state the obvious, this is done so that if all the arresting wires are missed or the arresting hook bounces over the wires, (called a Bolter) the plane flies off the angle deck instead of skidding off into the sea.  Second chances are nice to have.  ;)

I always liked the Dart.  But, never got close to one.  Didn't that have the J79 engine, too?

 I have 35mm pictures of the carrier flight ops and planes from 72.  Alas, I have no scanner.  I wonder if I can take a digital picture of a print....
Gotta go...
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2007, 04:07:52 PM »



         Hey TT,
                   Didn't remember which engine the F106 used, just knew it wasn't a J79. F104,F4 and B58s used the J79 for sure. The F106 used the J75. check the link for more info. Later on, Bill :) ;)

           http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/f106/
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
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Offline 74cb750

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2007, 04:30:32 PM »
My newphew worked on the B2 bomber while it was still a
black thing-a-ma-jig, whatever.

I never cease to be amazed at the amount of $ we spend on this
junk. Guess we have to be ready if the Aliens ever attack.
peace,
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Offline kslrr

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2007, 07:23:55 PM »
I always liked the Dart. But, never got close to one. Didn't that have the J79 engine, too?
Quote

I liked my Dart too.  It was a '64 wagon.  Though it did not have the J79, it had the 225 slant 6.  The J79 must have been a performance option.

Sorry, I had to do this. :D
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 07:26:17 PM by kslrr »
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2007, 07:58:25 PM »
I always liked the Dart. But, never got close to one. Didn't that have the J79 engine, too?
Quote

I liked my Dart too.  It was a '64 wagon.  Though it did not have the J79, it had the 225 slant 6.  The J79 must have been a performance option.

Sorry, I had to do this. :D

      OHHH!! ::) Some people! :P ;D Just kidding, would that J79 have been a HEMI? ??? ::)

  Actually, my folks had a 65' Dart Wagon. We put a lot of miles on that one. Small world, huh?
  Take care.
                                                             Later on, Bill :) ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
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Offline Rushoid

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2007, 01:30:47 PM »
Bill440 or Rushoid, din't the F-4 have a nicknme duu to the dark rtail they left behind in any throttle positon other than aftebrner? I seem to remember something about that somewhere. Im sorry for the spelling, kinda lit up tonite.

J

        I don't recall, right off, about a nickname. I do remember that the Crew Chiefs were called "Phantom Fixers". On another note, the F101 was called the VooDoo and their Crew Chiefs were called "Witch Doctors". That's all I can think of for now. What about it Lee, do you have an answer for Jeff?

                                                      Later on, Bill :) ;)         
You're probably thinking of "Old Smokey." The F-4 had several nicknames though: Double Ugly (probably more of a reference to to pilot and GIB), Rhino, Flying Brick, etc. I know the USAF Thunderbirds had their #4 tail painted black because it would turn black anyway when he was in the "slot."



I don't remember if the Blue Angels did that too.

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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2007, 04:59:21 PM »

        Hey Lee, thanks for posting that picture and for the info. I'll have to admit that I never knew that fact about the #4 plane. Thanks for enlightening me. I have no idea if the Blue Angels did that or not.
It's always cool to see them perform too! 8) Once, when we (the 67th Tac Fighter Squadron) was TDY to Korea, our Maintenance Officer said that he was proud of our performance and wanted to show his appreciation by putting on a show for us. Of course, we had to work to get the planes in the air! ;D ::) They flew all 18 acft that day and were doing all kinds of maneuvers. The highlight of the show was when the Maintenance Officer took off. Just as soon as the wheels were off of the ground, he pulled the landing gear up and went straight up ( I should say that the plane had no drop tanks on it). At a certain altitude, he peeled off, dropped down and made a "High Speed Run" just above us. That F4 was opened up and in "Burner". I can still remember it, to this day. I used to live in line with the approach to the Fort Smith Air Port and they were having the "Air Show" with the Thunderbirds. Arkansas Air Guard had F4s then too. I didn't go that year and was working in my garage when I heard an enormous racket. Sounded like several planes were going to come right through my garage! :o I ran out and looked up just in time to see a KC135 Fuel Tanker with 3 F4s in place (1 was at the boom, as if it was refueling and the other 2 were on each side of the rear portion of the KC135). It was cool for me and I thought some of you might appreciate it too. ;) 8)

                                                         Later on, Bill :) ;)         
   
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

ledbetter

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2007, 10:37:01 AM »
Any one got a good pic of the xb-70 Valkyrie,it is one of the most wicked looking planes ever built.

Ledbetter

eldar

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2007, 10:44:49 AM »
Even today the F4 looks bad-ass! It may be dated obviously but the fact it is still in use, the last I knew, in other countries has to say something!

Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2007, 12:30:21 PM »
         Hey Ledbetter,  How's this one?

           

              And this one?   

           

              Another one

             
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 12:45:11 PM by bill440cars »
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline xtalon

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2007, 12:32:42 PM »
That just screams 'FAST'!!!   :o

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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2007, 12:58:39 PM »

   Just One more shot of the XB70.

     
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
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ledbetter

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2007, 02:35:27 PM »
Man those pic's are great ,love the first one ,you can see where the paint cooked of the airplane at high speed,close to mach 3 if I remeber right ,but love all the pic's.it was just a bad ass airplane. ;D

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Offline SD750F

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2007, 02:45:58 PM »
One more...

And how many knew that the wing tips on the XB-70 dropped down for supersonic flight?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 02:59:28 PM by SD750F »

Offline burmashave

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2007, 03:21:24 PM »
As the man once said, "If that don't give ya wood, I don't know what will."
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2007, 04:57:17 PM »
One more...

And how many knew that the wing tips on the XB-70 dropped down for supersonic flight?

         To be perfectly honest about it, I don't remember hearing about the XB-70 at all. :-[ This has been a learning experience for me and I'm really enjoying it. ;) 8) I knew about the SR71, U2 and YF12A
Thanks for the experience guys! ;)

                                                  Later on, Bill :) ;)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

ledbetter

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2007, 07:53:15 PM »
One more...

And how many knew that the wing tips on the XB-70 dropped down for supersonic flight?
I did ;)

Ledbetter

Offline SD750F

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2007, 08:44:30 AM »
Way to go Ledbetter! That was worth a big kudo!

Scott

ledbetter

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Re: Phantom
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2007, 09:51:54 AM »
i got more useless aircraft trivia running around my head that  I don't know what to do with it some day's :D
Grow up around airplanes,commercial and military ,my dad has been a pilot for a little over 40 years,so I guess it just come naturally to me.

Ledbetter