Author Topic: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?  (Read 802 times)

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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« on: March 03, 2025, 02:33:27 PM »
So... I am looking at rejetting for altitude when going back to a stock airbox. I've looked at the genuine Keihin jets at Z1 and Jets-r-us. Stock jetting for the 550F1 is 38/98. I'm looking to reduce by 1.2% per 1000 feet elevation, and I'm at 7500 feet. So that's a 9percent reduction. For the slow jet, I'd go from 38 to 35. 35s are available. For the main jet, I would go from 98 to 88/90, somewhere around there. On both sites, they go from 80 to 98, nothing in between. Anyone have any ideas? Looked at power barn, looked at Keihin's website as well: https://www.keihin-fcr.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=219

I would love for someone to tell me I am looking for the wrong jet, but I'm pretty sure this is it. No such thing?

Offline dave500

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2025, 03:05:09 PM »
if you can find jets too small you could drill them up?

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2025, 03:19:29 PM »
Don't want to do that... bound to be inconsistent...

If they truly aren't available I can always go back to the pods and 100 mains that it had. It ran great with that set up. Just had the idea of getting it back to 100% stock.

Offline scottly

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2025, 03:46:47 PM »
First of all, an 88 jet has about 20% less surface area than a 98, meaning it will flow about 20% less fuel. Use the formula pi times radius squared to find the area. The 98 jets are less than 1% smaller than the 100s. You might want to check the existing 100 jets with the shank of a 1mm drill bit to see if they have been drilled larger than the marked size. Was the stock air filter element new?
I don't know where that 1.2% figure came from, but that hasn't been my experience. I've ridden my Honda over Monarch Pass (11,312 feet) and Independence Pass (12,095 feet) in Colorado with no changes from the Sea level jetting, and the guys I was riding with, two Honda CBXs and a Kawasaki 750 twin, never had to re-jet either.
Check reply 27 here:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,195383.25.html
« Last Edit: March 03, 2025, 03:55:03 PM by scottly »
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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2025, 05:50:53 PM »
The airbox is most definitely NOT restrictive on the 500/550 bikes. It could feed a 1000CC engine with little trouble. The issue is more with the [spark] timing than with the jetting. There were/are few jets available for the 500/550 carbs, as Honda used 35, 37.5 (aka 38), 40, 100, 98, 95, 90 and 78 in the various 500/550 bikes (the 500K1/2 and CB550K1/K2 used the same carbs with different idle and mainjets for smog-law reasons). I've detailed this in my next book, if I can get the publisher's formatting engine to agree with my layouts....

You might want to try this instead of the jetting: push the ignition timing up 2 degrees. This was for decades the standard "fix" for cars coming to Colorado from the Flatlands at local gas stations and car dealers (before the DOT and EPA was formed). Larger engines (V-8s) got more, like 5-6 degrees. Going beyond 2 degrees might cause the dreaded 'hanging idle' situation with the 022/a carbs, in which case you must (and should anyway) trim back at least 1/2 turn from each spark advancer spring (I always do 1 turn from both) to slow down the spark advancer. It advanced far too soon when we had normal gasolines, and today they advance so soon that most have full advance by 1500 RPM, and the wet throats of the long intake runners then just make the idle 'hang' around 1500 until you nudge the clutch against it to make it drop back down. Slowing the advancer to match modern gas helps it a LOT.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2025, 03:05:48 PM by HondaMan »
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2025, 06:24:29 PM »
First of all, an 88 jet has about 20% less surface area than a 98, meaning it will flow about 20% less fuel. Use the formula pi times radius squared to find the area. The 98 jets are less than 1% smaller than the 100s. You might want to check the existing 100 jets with the shank of a 1mm drill bit to see if they have been drilled larger than the marked size. Was the stock air filter element new?
I don't know where that 1.2% figure came from, but that hasn't been my experience. I've ridden my Honda over Monarch Pass (11,312 feet) and Independence Pass (12,095 feet) in Colorado with no changes from the Sea level jetting, and the guys I was riding with, two Honda CBXs and a Kawasaki 750 twin, never had to re-jet either.
Check reply 27 here:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,195383.25.html

Gotcha. I got the 1.2% per 1000 feet elevation from Hondaman.

"For altitude: for bikes with per-cylinder CCs of under 200cc you can use 1.2% per thousand feet altitude and get real close. The 750 has always been on the borderline where 1.0% applies, due to the larger cylinders. When the cylinders get bigger the precision drops off due to volumetric inefficiency. Smaller ones are often affected more-per-thousand-feet when jetting is "off"."

I figured it would apply to the jet size, not the jet's surface area. But that would still put me around 92 or 93 (without actually doing the math) -- and there is no jet close to that either.

The air filter element is new. I can check the hole in the jet to verify (and there is also the fact that the orings aren't sealing so potentially letting in more gas). What I don't want to do is get 98 jets and have it run the same. Unless anyone has anything different, though, it's either 98 or 80 if I want Keihin jets.

I'm open to experimenting a little -- pulling out the air filter, etc., and riding around a little. But that's not a long-term solution -- unless I can come up with some kind of higher flowing filter set up. 

I rode the bike the day before with the pods set up, ran just fine. And with the airbox the plugs were fouled when I pulled them. That being said, and reading the post you sent, I was riding in traffic and sitting at lights, etc. So if at idle it was super rich maybe that was enough to foul the plugs and make it not respond at higher revs. I can lean out the idle mixture and try again.

I'm still baffled, though, that if a 98 is a stock jet that Keihin wouldn't have anything close-but-smaller.

I'm also going to Columbus, OH, next week and figured I could buy stuff and get it shipped to my hotel. I'm getting a few other things for the bike while I am there as well, and wanted to try rejetting. I could leave the airbox on and just not ride it for a few days as opposed to taking off the airbox, putting the pods back on, then putting the airbox on right away again to try new jets.

And, of course, in the back of my mind is the fact that it ran and pulled fine before...

Offline scottly

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2025, 07:05:45 PM »
The airbox is most definitely NOT restrictive on the 500/550 bikes.
It's not the airbox that's restrictive, it's the small area of the filter element. Compare one to a 750 element. ;)
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Offline Little_Phil

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2025, 02:33:48 AM »
My 500 from Colorado Springs (6000 ft) came with 92 main jets. These were fitted back in the 70s I believe.

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2025, 02:26:10 PM »
So I putted around a little today. Bike was bogging, nothing changed. I pulled out the air filter and it was back to life, although the idle jumped and there was a little popping on decel -- so now running lean. How to find the happy medium?

I think I am going to order the 98 Keihin jets and start there. That will bring the jet size down a little and with a good sealing o-ring stop any gas getting by. I also thought that if the stock air filter is too restrictive, then maybe experiment with some Uni foam -- tear out the paper element and replace it with foam, give it a little spray of oil, and see how that goes.

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2025, 06:47:07 PM »
Chicken ,
 what does your sparpkugs look like when bogging? Black?
I think your on the right track if you’re planning on staying at that altitude..Most manufacturers had/have recommendations for continuous usage at high altitudes vs brief intermittent usage.

Equipment manufacturers always offered high altitude options usually higher compression pistons and different carb jetting.

I’ve got a friend that has an old gasoline John Deere that never ran at 450’ elevation without the choke partially on. Found out after checking/cleaning.  the original carb jets factory installed were the 8000 ft jetting option. I think I’d use the aviation elevation/jetting chart instead. I don’t remember it being a perfect percentage per 1000’

I don’t have a 550 owners manual. Does your manual have a jetting chart?
Pictured is a 01 CR500R chart.. I was thinking I’ve seen one for the CB750 but I’m not sure if it was a Honda publication..
« Last Edit: March 04, 2025, 06:49:19 PM by Tracksnblades1 »
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2025, 08:25:56 PM »
Interesting chart that shows the differences in jetting vs altitude. That can be a guideline for any bike with carbs.

C Chicken, can your carbs be dirty inside?
Try a fuel additive for cleaning fuel systems. A strong blend.
It made a big difference on my K6 last year when I read the instructions on the additive bottle I have used before.

The lines on bottle was for daily use, between 2 lines for 50L. Cleaning should have triple dose.
I gave x4.
Finally a huge difference after ca 150km ride in legal speeds to focus on pilot circuit, had to reduce fuel screws rather much.

I had cleaned the carbs vents via the 2 hoses  before that. Blew air into pilot air jets (after spraying carb cleaner in  there) so fuel bubbled in float chambers and ran thru the upper vent tubes taking dirt out. Insects can find its way in there
« Last Edit: March 04, 2025, 08:36:22 PM by PeWe »
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Offline scottly

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2025, 08:41:55 PM »
That chart is for a two-stroke racing bike, jetted for the optimal performance at various temps and altitudes. I own an earlier CR480 that I bought brand new, and have ridden it at elevations ranging from sea level at the sand dunes at Pismo Beach to 9000 feet near Big Bear Lake, and temps from 35* to 100*, and never bothered with jet changes, as it had all the HP needed regardless of conditions. ;D
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Offline scottly

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2025, 08:44:39 PM »
I pulled out the air filter and it was back to life,
Indicating that the stock air filter is indeed restrictive.
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Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2025, 09:54:34 PM »
Interesting chart that shows the differences in jetting vs altitude. That can be a guideline for any bike with carbs.

C Chicken, can your carbs be dirty inside?
Try a fuel additive for cleaning fuel systems. A strong blend.
It made a big difference on my K6 last year when I read the instructions on the additive bottle I have used before.

The lines on bottle was for daily use, between 2 lines for 50L. Cleaning should have triple dose.
I gave x4.
Finally a huge difference after ca 150km ride in legal speeds to focus on pilot circuit, had to reduce fuel screws rather much.

I had cleaned the carbs vents via the 2 hoses  before that. Blew air into pilot air jets (after spraying carb cleaner in  there) so fuel bubbled in float chambers and ran thru the upper vent tubes taking dirt out. Insects can find its way in there

It was an example of a manufacturers jetting chart. What a OEM Honda chart looks like. 4 stroke or 2 stroke.
It is a CR500R two stroke though..It’s amazing what the temperature extremes jetting difference are too.
That said, only with my own experience , I believe non performance 4 strokes are more tolerable of jetting “errors” than high performance engines of either type are..

PeWe, I like your post and continued pursuit of perfection. I was lucky and was around of a lot of good mechanics/tuners in my earlier years. There are those just satisfied with close, close enough, or it just runs.. I like Mike’s post too about verifying the AF s also.. It’s good to know for sure because not all butt Dynos are that accurate..

Chicken,
Like I said, I think your on the right track perfecting your jetting if your planning on riding at that elevation all the time.
I wouldn’t want to have to remove the air filter either just to get it to run well.. And when jetted close for your specific altitude it will be comfortable to know as inferred it may still run 4,000ft higher or lower intermittently good enough you don’t have to remove your filter to get home..I’m sure you’re not taching 10,000rpm during the whole ride so I doubt you have to worry about being spot on right from the start..

There was someone on here that had a handle bar mounted AF display on his handle bars during a dyno run..
I always thought that would be an excellent crutch if it’s actually accurate.. A practiced slow and fast throttle transition hand with some long slow inclines and multiple spark plug readings will eventually tell you the same..

I think if you do find an accurate elevation to jetting size chart or formula for your bike  it would be an excellent starting point..

Even the “example” CR500 chart is only a starting point as Honda indicates clearly. Our humidity here can swing radically form one day to the next here.
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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2025, 02:18:14 AM »
CC
Did you see the orange 75 550F(in boxes) for sale in the forum classifieds in TX?
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2025, 07:32:59 AM »
Chicken ,
 what does your sparpkugs look like when bogging? Black?

Appreciate it. Yes, sooty black. Rich.

Interesting chart that shows the differences in jetting vs altitude. That can be a guideline for any bike with carbs.

C Chicken, can your carbs be dirty inside?

Carbs are spotless. I took them apart and cleaned them two years ago when I bought the bike. And I've dropped a float bowl three times now in the past month.

Indicating that the stock air filter is indeed restrictive.

Indeed. Or at least at this altitude. I imagine using unifoam and fashioning a filter will help, but if it's not enough maybe back to pods if I can't step down the jets. At least I will have jets that seal, too.

Chicken,
Like I said, I think your on the right track perfecting your jetting if your planning on riding at that elevation all the time.
I wouldn’t want to have to remove the air filter either just to get it to run well.. And when jetted close for your specific altitude it will be comfortable to know as inferred it may still run 4,000ft higher or lower intermittently good enough you don’t have to remove your filter to get home..I’m sure you’re not taching 10,000rpm during the whole ride so I doubt you have to worry about being spot on right from the start..

Definitely not going to ride without an air filter. It's parked until I get back from Ohio. But yeah, want to find the right formula and be done with it...

CC
Did you see the orange 75 550F(in boxes) for sale in the forum classifieds in TX?

Ha! I did, thanks. Different orange (sparkly!) but also a great deal. I just don't have the room, and the cost and headache to ship that stuff would be a pain. Plus -- I've got a few spares for this bike but it's in really good shape so I'm not really looking for much... except 2 metric bolts for front motor mounts! I think I'll have it back to 100% stock with those (braided brake line notwithstanding).

Thanks all for the replies.

Offline Mikerts_Garage

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2025, 07:38:38 AM »
Hey Chicken,

I'll try to keep my reply short.

I also have a 77' CB550F all stock running 4300' up to 10,000' in the canyons.

Same issue on stock jetting, black plugs, bogging, ect.

Went to 90 mains, 35 slows, and 2mm higher float height, 2 degrees advanced ignition. Bike runs like a dream now with perfectly tan plugs.

To answer your initial question of where to buy: Sigma Six Jet on ebay, they will make you whatever size of jet you want, and do a good job too in my experience.

hope this helps, -Kyle
Running and Riding: 71' Honda CT90, 73' Honda CB350F, 20' KTM EXC-F 500.

In Progress: 70' Suzuki TS90, 74' Honda CB750K

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Forgotten in the Oven: 70' Honda CL350, 77' Honda XL350

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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2025, 08:14:51 AM »
Hey Chicken,

I'll try to keep my reply short.

I also have a 77' CB550F all stock running 4300' up to 10,000' in the canyons.

Same issue on stock jetting, black plugs, bogging, ect.

Went to 90 mains, 35 slows, and 2mm higher float height, 2 degrees advanced ignition. Bike runs like a dream now with perfectly tan plugs.

To answer your initial question of where to buy: Sigma Six Jet on ebay, they will make you whatever size of jet you want, and do a good job too in my experience.

hope this helps, -Kyle

Awesome, thanks. That'll be my next step I guess if step one doesn't work out. Do you have stock airbox and filter and exhaust as well?

Offline Mikerts_Garage

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2025, 08:38:40 AM »
Yes, bike is mint, not a single hole in the exhaust either.



Running and Riding: 71' Honda CT90, 73' Honda CB350F, 20' KTM EXC-F 500.

In Progress: 70' Suzuki TS90, 74' Honda CB750K

Back Burner: 66' Honda CB160, 73' Yamaha TX650

Forgotten in the Oven: 70' Honda CL350, 77' Honda XL350

Others I have mechanical custody of: 69' Honda CL125, 71' Honda CT90, 74' Honda Z50, 77' CB550F, 79' Honda CX500

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2025, 09:58:19 AM »
OK, thanks again, Really nice bike!

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2025, 12:58:10 PM »
Yes, bike is mint, not a single hole in the exhaust either.



That is a fine example of perfection.
Those sweeping pipes are so sexy..
The bazooka looks similar to the F1s OEM one..
I’d keep it it all OEM too..😇
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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2025, 07:10:17 PM »

I also have a 77' CB550F all stock running 4300' up to 10,000' in the canyons.

Same issue on stock jetting, black plugs, bogging, ect.

Went to 90 mains, 35 slows, and 2mm higher float height, 2 degrees advanced ignition. Bike runs like a dream now with perfectly tan plugs.

If a completely stock bike is fouling plugs at only 4300 feet, something is wrong! ;)
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Offline Mark1976

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2025, 07:18:17 PM »

I also have a 77' CB550F all stock running 4300' up to 10,000' in the canyons.

Same issue on stock jetting, black plugs, bogging, ect.

Went to 90 mains, 35 slows, and 2mm higher float height, 2 degrees advanced ignition. Bike runs like a dream now with perfectly tan plugs.

If a completely stock bike is fouling plugs at only 4300 feet, something is wrong! ;)
Complete understatement...
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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2025, 08:57:54 PM »
The airbox is most definitely NOT restrictive on the 500/550 bikes.
It's not the airbox that's restrictive, it's the small area of the filter element. Compare one to a 750 element. ;)
True: I forgot to mention the type of air filters involved. I do wish K&N still had one for these bikes, it was the best.

That Mikert's bike sure is a beautiful 550!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2025, 08:59:59 PM by HondaMan »
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Offline Mikerts_Garage

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Re: Keihin Jets for CB550F -- nowhere near my size?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2025, 07:14:42 AM »

I also have a 77' CB550F all stock running 4300' up to 10,000' in the canyons.

Same issue on stock jetting, black plugs, bogging, ect.

Went to 90 mains, 35 slows, and 2mm higher float height, 2 degrees advanced ignition. Bike runs like a dream now with perfectly tan plugs.

If a completely stock bike is fouling plugs at only 4300 feet, something is wrong! ;)

Lol, sorry, I should clarify, growing up my dad used "fouling" interchangeably with "running rich", or "black plugs". I suppose that's a bad habbit, the bike never did foul plugs in the conventional sense, just make them jet black.

Thank y'all for the complements, It's hard to beat the looks of the 550f.  :D
Running and Riding: 71' Honda CT90, 73' Honda CB350F, 20' KTM EXC-F 500.

In Progress: 70' Suzuki TS90, 74' Honda CB750K

Back Burner: 66' Honda CB160, 73' Yamaha TX650

Forgotten in the Oven: 70' Honda CL350, 77' Honda XL350

Others I have mechanical custody of: 69' Honda CL125, 71' Honda CT90, 74' Honda Z50, 77' CB550F, 79' Honda CX500