Topic: I knew it was only a matter of time . . .

[BenelliSEI]

Since you have ordered new ones, you can drill the head off any really stuck ones. They can be really bad if the engine/bike have been left outside for a few years. Once the cover is off, you can spray the base of the remaining studs with a penetrating soil. Maybe even some heat. Then tackle them with a set of vice grips or stud remover. Just don’t break them off!

[newday777]

I assumed a JIS tip but maybe not.  I don't know?

Bad assumption if you didn't buy it new and didn't have JIS in the description.

[kyle750]

New Yamiya bolts arrive tomorrow    No worries with the old bolts as I will just be throwing them out. Truly astounding how the heads are in such terrible condition but the bolt shafts are perfectly OK.  I am still shocked at how well the T-Handle is working and I wish I understood why this tool has magical powers. The fit and force (both sideways and down)  is unbelievable.   The bit is old and the surface is worn with light corrosion.  Is it possible that the older surface rust of the old worn bit gives the bit more grip and  bite.  I am quessing the inside of the bolt heads are rusty and corroded like the tops.

[kyle750]

I assumed a JIS tip but maybe not.  I don't know?

Bad assumption if you didn't buy it new and didn't have JIS in the description.

Agreed!

[kyle750]

From the Vessel website:

“As you might know, VESSEL is the oldest screwdriver manufacturer in Japan, and made a contribution to set a Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) standard. We do follow JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) standard for cross point screwdrivers.

Because the technology to manufacture screwdrivers in Japan had already become above a certain level, JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) recognition system for screwdrivers became extinct in 2008.

So there is no authorized JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) manufacturer now, and we therefore cannot print “JIS” mark on our screwdrivers.

[Don R]

 I was told a little valve grinding compound will increase the grip on a screwdriver bit. Maybe it's like the rusty tip on your screwdriver.

[kyle750]

New bolts from Yamiya arrived in Thailand and UPS emails me an invoice for payment of brokerage fees, import fees, and tax.  2 clicks later it is paid. Very impressed with the ease and efficiency of Yamiya and UPS shipping 

[Sw1ssdude]

New Yamiya bolts arrive tomorrow    No worries with the old bolts as I will just be throwing them out. Truly astounding how the heads are in such terrible condition but the bolt shafts are perfectly OK.  I am still shocked at how well the T-Handle is working and I wish I understood why this tool has magical powers. The fit and force (both sideways and down)  is unbelievable.   The bit is old and the surface is worn with light corrosion.  Is it possible that the older surface rust of the old worn bit gives the bit more grip and  bite.  I am quessing the inside of the bolt heads are rusty and corroded like the tops.

A little dirt or dust helps a lot with transmitting force. But if the grime hinders fully seating of the tip in the screw head you'll have a bad time in your workshop.
Never tried the valve grinding compound trick, but will remember it next time i encounter a stuck screw.

The german tool company WERA has a special tool series with laser-scorched tips with the same exact purpose, but most likely no JIS tools. https://www-de.wera.de/en/great-tools/lasertip/

[kyle750]

Closeup of the bit on the supernatural T-handle screwdriver. Old, rusted, and ugly.  I only bought it because it was dirt cheap.  Cracks every bolt loose on the first turn.

[kyle750]

Stunned in Disbelief - Technique

I was still having a problem with 2 bolts.  Rusted solid and stripped heads.   Screwdriver still had a little bite but not much left to work with.  I also received the Vessel Impacta screwdrivers and was hoping they would save the day.  Vessel Impacta did not work for me on the 2 extremely seized bolts. They would not budge!

So I know when to quit.  I handed the screwdriver to one of the thai girls in my village who occasionally works for me (she is an excellent worker, quick learner, and does exceptional work).  She grew up on a farm so she knows how to get things done.

When I struck the impact screwdriver I was kneeling to the left side of the bolt. She stood straight up and  over the bolt straddling the bolt between her legs and then she struck the impact screwdriver with the hammer from between her legs.  When I watched her I was completely baffled by her unusual technique. She unseized the first bolt and I thought maybe she was just lucky.  Then she moved to the 2nd bolt and freed it up in a few strikes.    Totally stunned in disbelief. 

[newday777]

Over the years I've seen many people hold a screwdriver or impact driver or impact wrench cocked off kilter, ruining a good screw head. Position and technique are critical as well as the right tool for the job.

[kyle750]

I would also be very curious what hammer you guys use with an impact screwdriver.  Regular claw hammer is not very accurate and is very damaging.  Dead blow looks very good.  Ball peen seems popular.  I also have access to a larger head club hammer - heavy and large surface area like the head of a sledgehammer. 

[newday777]

Just a 15-20 oz ball peen

[BenelliSEI]

Just a 15-20 oz ball peen

I have a short handle 2.5 lbs sledge that works well. Just don’t miss…..the end of my ancient impact screwdriver is actually slightly mushroomed out and cracked but it still works perfectly. It was an inexpensive one I bought around 1970! The British cars we were racing at the time all had a set of huge screws that fastened the rear drums to the wheel hubs. They usually needed a serious beating…..

[jonda500]

More important than hammer selection (don't use a little light one!) is to have the driver firmly squarely pushed into the screw with a firm anti-clockwise twisting force grip applied before you hit it!
John
P.S. I got my first impact driver in the eighties for $3.50 - I eventually I wrecked it trying to remove stuck cylinder head bolts in a car engine (smacking it with a big lump hammer). My next one that I bought in the nineties was also very cheap and I still have it today - I don't use this one for sockets, only screwdriver bits!

[kyle750]

More important than hammer selection (don't use a little light one!) is to have the driver firmly squarely pushed into the screw with a firm anti-clockwise twisting force grip applied before you hit it!

Many thanks for the excellent advice.  I tried a tight grip on the impact screwdriver with a counterclockwise twisting force before I hit it and it really does work.  Removed the 4 screws holding down the stator coil with the number 3 Vessel Impacta.  Holding the screwdriver tightly I could actually feel the cam in the shaft moving and loosening the screws.  Took 4 or 5 whacks but finally you could feel the screws move. 

Hands down the Vessel Impacta has worked the best for me.  Thanks for all the excellent advice.

Alternator cover will be refinished tomorrow and then I will be searching for a metal polisher to polish the sprocket, gear shift, and alternator covers all at the same time. 
 

[MauiK3]

I've been using the same one for many years as well. I now use. a dead blow hammer to smack it. Works great.

[kyle750]

I've been using a standard claw hammer and it SUCKS!  Still debating a replacement but I will be trying a short handle sledge on the next series of screws.  Serious weight and head size on this monster!

[kyle750]

Next Up  in the Hammer Testing???

1. 1.5Kg short handle sledge on the left
2. Well worn dead blow in the center (you can hear the pellets shaking in the middle)
3. Unidentified hammer with good weight and excellent balance on the right

All bought at the 2nd hand Japan tool shop for very little money

[bryanj]

The Sledge is overkill, the "dead blow" looks more like a replaceable soft head to me and not worth it, the last one looks very old.
All i ever used was a 1 or 2 ib ball pein, its holding the driver correctly that is most important, you must br trying to turn the screw as much as possible before hitting the end

[MauiK3]

A dead blow hammer is hollow with lead beads inside, it does not rebound.

[HondaMan]

I quit using the hardened "normal" hammer (like a carpenter's hammer) on the impact tool long ago: it made lots of sharp divots in the tool (some are still there!). I use various sizes of ballpeen type hammers, up to 24 ounces, growing in weight with stuck-ness of the screw. These have helped to 'heal' some of the divots from the carpenter's hammer I made in the late 1960s.

About 12 years ago I bought a 2nd Vessel impact driver and was sort of disappointed by its performance until one day I remembered something accidental with my first (and favorite) one that made it better: I was draining oil from a SuperHawk and also removing the chain cover (with the driver) when I dropped the impact tool in the oil (actually, I hit my hand with the hammer, making me drop it, for not bothering to kneel down...). It was completely submerged while I walked around the shop looking for some large pliers to retrieve it with. When I got it out and let it drain overnight and then cleaned it, it worked 300% better (or more) than before! So, when I bought this 2nd one I (voluntarily) did the same thing to the tool after struggling with it on a 750 disassembly, and it also made it work better.

Messy, though...and it dribbles for a week...

[kyle750]

I use various sizes of ballpeen type hammers, up to 24 ounces, growing in weight with stuck-ness of the screw.

I really like the idea of starting with the lowest weight hammer and moving on to heavier if they don't unloosen the screw.  To start with the beastly sledge looks risky but fun to swing!

[M 750K6]

I don't use a particularly heavy hammer. Just make sure the JIS bit is nice and tight, twist and give a square on blow. Be careful with heavier hammers, in case you start deforming engine covers etc.

I have been very impressed with the Honda's screws and case threads. The really stuck screws have released with the impact driver. I stripped a friend's 2-stroke Suzuki and a couple of the seized in screws sheared under the impact driver. Not so with the Honda.

[newday777]

About 12 years ago I bought a 2nd Vessel impact driver and was sort of disappointed by its performance until one day I remembered something accidental with my first (and favorite) one that made it better: I was draining oil from a SuperHawk and also removing the chain cover (with the driver) when I dropped the impact tool in the oil (actually, I hit my hand with the hammer, making me drop it, for not bothering to kneel down...). It was completely submerged while I walked around the shop looking for some large pliers to retrieve it with. When I got it out and let it drain overnight and then cleaned it, it worked 300% better (or more) than before! So, when I bought this 2nd one I (voluntarily) did the same thing to the tool after struggling with it on a 750 disassembly, and it also made it work better.

Messy, though...and it dribbles for a week...

I've hit my hand with a big hammer many times like that.

I'll have to try the oil soak of my 1970s Craftsman hand impact. It still works good, maybe it will be better yet? I like the idea.
I'll bend up an old metal wire shirt hanger as a wrap around sling for it to drip into a pan.