Author Topic: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery  (Read 3551 times)

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Offline TaosBrick

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CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« on: April 22, 2025, 01:25:50 PM »
In question is a 1975 CB550K1 motor, engine# CB550E - 1034406
I ordered friction plates for this model and engine# range, only to discover them to be too thin at 2.75mm thickness - the plates removed from the bike are 3.35mm in thickness. I had ordered aftermarket plates, vendor was so kind as to mic a plate from an OEM set they also carry, OEM plates are also 2.75mm thick 🤷🏽‍♂️
  If anyone can offer a solution to the mystery, as well as where I can find 3.35mm thick plates that fit in this clutch basket (inside/outside diameter same, as well as spacing and width of the “tabs” that slot into the basket.
Thanks everybody!

Offline scottly

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2025, 02:20:30 PM »
What is the minimum thickness for the friction discs in the manual? For instance, the spec for a 750 is 3.10mm.
Who was the vendor?

Hmm, the minimum thickness for a 500 is 3.0mm, but for a 550 it's 2.3mm??
« Last Edit: April 22, 2025, 02:31:59 PM by scottly »
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2025, 05:11:33 PM »
There is LOTS of info about this in my new book!
There are 3 different clutch plate thicknesses in the CB500/550 bikes. The early bikes like yours use plates of 0.128" thickness. They should be plates with square-cut cork panels on them, too, not slant-cut ones. The slant-cut ones were briefly used in the 1971 CB500 and the 1973 CB550, both discontinued for the same reasons: they reappeared in the form of a top 'slipper' plate in the 1976 "F" versions of the bikes and in the last-year "K" versions as well: these clutches had thinner plates of 0.107" thickness except for the top plate, which was slipping against a double-steel plate with tiny springs in between the 2 steel plates.

Your bike uses the thickest ones for all the plates.
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Offline TaosBrick

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2025, 06:47:09 PM »
Honda Man, you da Man!
The friction plates in that bike are the slant cut variety, at 3.35mm thick
So where I get me some new ones?
There are seven identical plates, no 8th slipper, unless it was somehow left out by whomever last did a clutch job on this bike.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2025, 06:52:10 PM by TaosBrick »

Offline scottly

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2025, 06:51:30 PM »
It sounds like you have 500 clutch discs in your '75 550??
Is there a problem with your clutch slipping? Why do you want to replace them?
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Offline TaosBrick

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2025, 06:56:01 PM »
Yup, clutch is slipping. Bike sat for 20 years. If I can’t source the appropriate plates, I’m just gonna spray the crap out of ‘em with BrāKleen, rough ‘em up a little with 200 grit emery paper, put in new springs and hope they grab.

Offline scottly

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2025, 06:59:48 PM »
How many plates are there in the old clutch pack, and how many of the thinner plates did the vendor provide?
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Offline TaosBrick

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2025, 08:50:00 PM »
There were 7 plates in pack on bike, vendor provided 7 thinner plates and an additional plate of equal thickness, but with wider “tabs” which in no way would fit into slots in basket.

Offline scottly

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2025, 08:55:34 PM »
The plate with the wider tabs only fit into the very ends of the slots in the basket, on the clutches that used them; is there a step in the ends of the slots?
Note the step at about 10:30 in this pic:
« Last Edit: April 22, 2025, 09:05:38 PM by scottly »
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2025, 09:21:05 PM »
There were 7 plates in pack on bike, vendor provided 7 thinner plates and an additional plate of equal thickness, but with wider “tabs” which in no way would fit into slots in basket.

Sadly, this is commonly confused at the vendors: I get to 'talk' with a number of them from time to time when their inventories get skewed up. They are usually good about straightening them back out, but then they probably forget, or get "that new guy" who doesn't know, and they get mixed up again. I've had best results with the guys at PartsNmore.com as far as getting them "straightened out" again, but since about 2005 when I first met them, it has gotten mixed up at least 4 times again. The 750 suffers this a little bit, too, but it only uses 3 different plates, all the same thickness, so it's simpler there.

In the "slipper plate" clutches, there are just 6 of the narrow-fingered ones and 1 of the wider-fingered ones (on the top of that hub's stack). The wide ones are usually the "slipper plate" type in so-called "corrected" clutches, but many of the 500K1 and 550K1 and late 550F2-3 bikes started getting the slant-cut ones, though not regularly in my observations. They always slip more on startup: that's their purpose.

But, what sometimes happens is: the installer may not realize that the clutch spins backward from the crankshaft, and then they get installed backward: this constantly traps oil between the plates aggressively, making them slip almost all the time. So, make sure the "pinwheel" tip is pointing opposite the crankshaft revolution (outer edge of gap to your right as you install them) before chasing new plates: the slant-cut ones will work if you have good oils and the rusty stuff wipes itself clean (after a while of riding). I don't always rush out to change the plates if I can ride the bike at least 50 miles and see if it gets better: often the rust will flush away, especially in the slant-cut plates. If they are real rusty they might not slip very well at first, and that crusty stuff WILL go thru the oil pump before the filter, so removing most of it should be important.

I will name the vendor here how keeps selling the wrong plates, and on purpose: it is Vesrah. They are advertising a 1-size-fits-all 550 clutch which will not, and cannot, work in all the 550 engines. Reason: their supplied springs are extra-strong in case you started with the thicker-plate clutch and now install their thinner ones: this causes almost 20% less spring pressure with standard clutch springs. That makes the clutch slip. BUT -installing the stronger springs from their "kit" overpowers the fragile lifter of the CB550 case, causing it to either insufficiently lift the pack free, or causes the owner to try to adjust the lifter tighter, at which point it goes 'over center' with a loud "snap" sound, leaving the clutch fully engaged with no disengagement possible until the cover is again removed and the lifter reset. This is epidemic in the CB550F (Euro CB500F) engines, and I hear about it A LOT. Because of that fact, I spent several pages, in more than one place, explaining it in this new book.

I've asked Vesrah management twice (once by email, once by snail mail) to correct this, but it is falling on deaf ears, from my seat.

You can get correct thickness plates from PartsNmore. Honda's shops will not always send you the right ones, either, because the parts personnel are younger than your bike, and they haven't been trained on the details of the 4 different clutches in the CB500/550 series bikes.
;)

Back when I first published My CB750 Book the response was huge, and fast. I 'used' that, by 2008, to establish a dialog with Honda, PartsNmore.com and CB750Supply.com to help them get us some corrected parts for the 750 back then, and label them correctly on their websites. I'm kinda hoping this will happen again with My CB500/CB550 Book, at which time I'll try to re-approach Vesrah (in particular) to educate them so they will stop ripping off these bike owners: the clutches are not returnable once installed. I, too, am an engineer, and likely for quite a bit longer than the ones who are telling these vendors that "this is OK" when it is not: some new engineers simply lack the needed experience. At one point I had a 2'x2'x2' box of slightly-used thin Vesrah 550 clutch plate packs (about 49 plates) that others who asked me "why does my new clutch slip?" finally got the RIGHT plates, and then sent me their WRONG plates in case I could use them. I don't work on that many 1976-77 550F engines that use those thin plates (just their top ends show up here), so I finally gave them away for more space. It turned out that some 1990s superbikes also use those plates (in different numbers of plates/clutch), so they are everywhere.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2025, 09:37:01 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline dave500

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2025, 12:13:45 AM »
the 550 clutch assembly is a completely different animal.

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2025, 03:49:28 AM »
from the expert:
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Online newday777

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2025, 04:54:18 AM »
from the expert:
Almost impossible to read in that size and angle of your pictures
Stu
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My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
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Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
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Offline TaosBrick

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2025, 06:10:00 AM »
These are the plates and basket that were on the bike. 7 plates, no slipper plate.
HondMan appears to suggest that Parts n More would be best bet to source correct plates…

Offline scottly

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2025, 12:37:48 PM »
Your basket doesn't have the step for the plate with the wider tabs. Your old plates are within spec for the thicker plates used in the 500 clutch. Usually when a wet clutch sits for an extended time, the plates can get stuck together, but I've never heard of it causing a clutch to slip. Are you sure it was adjusted properly and the release mechanism was working properly?
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Offline bryanj

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2025, 01:45:49 PM »
According to cmsnl even the us 550k0 has the bigger step on top plate
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2025, 05:24:29 PM »
Yeah, today's "Honda" parts fiche don't help us out: they are frequently confused (or just plain wrong ones). :(
While there's probably more about the clutches in this book than any other single item, it still doesn't cover them all because they were/are so erratic. Back when I was still 'in the business' with the bike shops around the Denver area I heard about (then still OEM) bikes with slant-cut plates that shouldn't have had them (like 1975 CB550K) and, especially between 1990 and 1998, totally wrong Honda parts fiches at the local dealers (which got me kicked out of Sun Honda one day when their 2-year-there Parts Man told me I "didn't know what the fuc# I was talking about" as he sold a stack of 6 slanted plates and one wide-tab slanted plate to the guy in front of me for a 1975 CB550K. I am 100% sure that kid was back there the next day with those plates after I talked with him when he was departing the store: I told him to not "wet" the plates with oil until he knew they fit, or they wouldn't refund them (true).

While I missed buying parts from that dealer after that, the whole place failed 2 years later (and it was Denver's biggest Honda place), no big surprise considering who was staffing it. :(

Bad info is bad info.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
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Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline scottly

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2025, 07:08:51 PM »
According to this Honda parts list, the 550K0 and 550K1 used different clutch parts than the 1976 550K2.
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2025, 01:08:17 AM »
All CB550 owners, including those owning an F model, are advised to first consult the appropiate parts list, before ordering. You must know exactly what model your bike is* - the year is irrelevant - and you even need to have your engine serial number at hand!
* Identification of your model can be done by comparing the engine- and framenumber to those listed in the first 4 pages in the CB550 Parts Lists. They are all here: https://www.honda4fun.com/materiale/documentazione-tecnica
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Offline dave500

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2025, 02:00:25 AM »
only on the 500,that dumb arse corkscrew system will be problematic if its worn out,itll kick up somewhat and not push laterally before it makes contact,I know its a 550 clutch but 500 owners may be reading this thread?,Ive always been happy with david silvers complete kits for 550s,i bought two of them years ago but havent managed to ruin one yet their too tough,under that centre circlip are shims or spacers,make sure its not sloppy in and out,itll affect your final primary adjustment once assembled,Ive never gone by thousands of an inch just shim it up and have it minimal,if its a millimeter its way too sloppy,get it way less like an 1/8th mm,so long as a tiny amount itll be fine.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2025, 02:25:09 AM by dave500 »

Offline bryanj

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2025, 02:53:49 AM »
Delta, it dont matter a stuff if you look up engine numbers when the parts list is just WRONG
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

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Offline jlh3rd

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2025, 03:46:20 AM »
so, is this right, or wrong. Supposedly a European export.
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2025, 03:57:39 AM »
Delta, it dont matter a stuff if you look up engine numbers when the parts list is just WRONG

Of all the genuine Honda documents available, the partlists are the most accurate by far. IIRC you've been  commenting on some transmission part missing in a CB500 parts list. Sometimes people miss something, only to trace it later in a different page. Every time I personally consult the parts lists I find them very, very reliable.
Bryanj, with all respect, it is not very helpful if you raise doubts on forsaid parts lists; we don't have any other documents that come even close to the accuracy of them. But... I am willing to collect any errors found for further publication. I have already done this multiple times for other documents like the Shop Manual CB500-550 and the various Owner's Manuals of these models.
So if you will give me the partnumber of the part you've missed, I can look it up to double check. Don't get me wrong: I collect errors. :)
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Offline jlh3rd

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2025, 04:16:37 AM »
Nobody can answer that question as we don't know the enginenumber of yours. In other words: is that the right part list for your specific model?

It's a U.S. export, 1975 Honda 550F, which makes it an F0, according to the U.S. Honda official motorcycle guide.
edit: sorry, I used the european book as I couldn't locate the U.S. book initially. Which I did now. The page is the same however in both.


hondaman is the expert here, so the question is for him. This is a first edition U.S. Honda '75 F parts book, so, I'd like to know.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2025, 04:43:47 AM by jlh3rd »
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB550 clutch plate thickness mystery
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2025, 07:46:50 AM »
Nobody can answer that question as we don't know the enginenumber of yours. In other words: is that the right part list for your specific model?

It's a U.S. export, 1975 Honda 550F, which makes it an F0, according to the U.S. Honda official motorcycle guide.
edit: sorry, I used the european book as I couldn't locate the U.S. book initially. Which I did now. The page is the same however in both.


hondaman is the expert here, so the question is for him. This is a first edition U.S. Honda '75 F parts book, so, I'd like to know.

The first year of the US versions of the CB550 (and the CB500K1) came originally with the slant-cut cork blocks, but not with the dual-steel "slipper plate", in the shops here in Colorado where I worked. The tips of the fingers of the clutch outer with have wider tab-slots if the top plate is supposed to be a slipper plate and there will be a dual-steel sprung plate in the stack for those unique clutches.

The slant-cut corks became a slippery problem, though, when owners used oils with too much detergent in them. The foaming caused the plates to slip too much when cold and then when they got real hot, like in city commuter traffic, the clutch tended to 'grab' quickly when starting out, stalling the engine in traffic.

The real "fix" was to use correct oil types. Honda struggled with this because American Honda wanted to tell everyone to "just use the same oil you do in your car" while Honda Japan was trying to spread the truth. The "oil in your car" had lots of detergent (common Detroit V-8 engines then, even more so today) and motorcycle oils had none, on purpose, to prevent this foaming issue. That was where the troubles came from. The solutions of varying clutch plate types were band-aids at best. (And Honda wasn't the only one struggling with this issue then: Yamaha and Kawasaki did, too).

Today: if the clutch plates are not worn too thin, you can scrub them clean(er) with a bucket soapy water, an ounce of oil and gasoline added as solvents, and an old toothbrush (or similar detailing brush). This will remove most of the previous "mistakes" in oils that were possibly done to them while giving you back the miles the plates may still have in them.

If the bike was known to be running OK before it got parked (like, it still has an OEM clutch in it) but rust from old, wet oil has dirtied the plates (and rusted the steel ones somewhat) then the first attempt should be to try to clean the whole stack and run it for 50-100 miles, changing the oil when you get there because the rust that can come off will, and some of that will stay in the sump.

When I rebuild these, I always skip the slant-cut plates unless it is one of the late 1977-78 versions with the dual-steel slipper plate in the stack: then only the top plates gets a slant-cut cork, and it will also have wider outer fingers to match the clutch outer. If the clutch outer does NOT have those wider outer fingers, no slant-cut plates go back in. They just cause slippery clutch problems for sure if the wrong oil gets used, and with the misinformation market we have now, this happens pretty often.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).