Topic: Fork Seals - HELP!!!

[xtalon]

I'm going to do the GL1000 front end swap and I have the GL forks apart, but the seals will not come out.  In fact, they seem to be bound to the metal.  I'm pulling/scraping them out tiny piece by tiny piece.  Even when I get a piece out, there seems to be fragments of the rubber still glued to the metal.

I knew these things would be hard to get out, but this is crazy.  I've tried the boiling water trick, but nothing helps.  Is there a chemical or something I can use to help break down the rubber.  I'm going to get the lowers powder coated and I've heard they heat them to a high heat to burn off anything.  I wonder if this would get rid of the seals or am I going to have to keep scrapping and pulling (and trying not to damage the alumininum)?

Any and all advice is welcome.

--xTalon

[xtalon]

[BUMP]

32 reads and not a single suggestion?  I've got the seals out after much effort, but there is still a rubber sticking to all the nooks and crannies.  If I had some dental teeth cleaning tools I could probably eventually scrape it all out, but as it is, I can't get to it all.  Is there anything I can use to dissolve this residual rubber?  Burn?  Melt?

--xTalon

[KB02]

Do you have any access to any kind of mild acid? Might help as long as it doesn't eat into the aluminum.

[xtalon]

I have some 'Metal Ready' I bought to prep my tank for the POR-15 tank liner.  It has phosphoric acid in it and according to the website can be used with alumininum.  I'll  give that a try unless someone jumps on here and advises a reason not to.

Thanks!

--xTalon

[BobbyR]

Naphtha is known rubber solvent. You can probably get it from a Hardware store. It is also what Coleman Lantern Fuel is made of.

[jaknight]

 

     Hi xtalon,

     I would think that some MEK with really fine steel wool (like 0000 grade) would work.

     Just don't suck on the end of the MEK can or try finding out how it smells........

     P.S. Wear some gloves to hold the steel wool, this stuff can be deadly.....

     ~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

[TwoTired]

Maybe you already know this.  But, just in case....
The fork seal has a metal element encapsulated with rubber that is bonded to it.  That metal bit must come out, too, when replacing seals.  I've never seen a seal that the rubber was more inclined to stay with the fork than with the metal core.

Have you gotten the seal's metal core out of the fork tube yet?

Cheers,

[xtalon]

There are the suggestions I knew you guys were good for!   

One of the lowers is currently sitting in some metal ready.  I'm going to leave it in all night and see where it stands in the morning.  If no joy, then I'll try some of these other suggestions.

I tried paint thinner and gas and neither did anything.  I tried testing a piece of the seal in the oven at 550 degrees and it didn't faze it... although my house smelled like someone did a burn out!  Cool!   

I'll keep the MEK and Naptha in mind. Friend of mine recommended Laquer Thinner.  I used to work with MEK when I was younger, stupid and naive.  Literally used to wash my hands in the stuff.  Hopefully my guardian angel was looking out for me.   

TT, some of the rubber is binding to the walls in some places, so I'm not 100% sure if I got everything, but I did remove a piece of metal from each that looks like a spring the was enclosed all the way around the seal.  Is this metal you are referring too or something else?

Thanks again guys.  Once I find something that works, I'll let everyone know.

Any ideas what would cause the seal to bond with the metal.  I literally had to scrape it out and even then it didn't want to come out.  This has been a nightmare.  Supposedly the forks only had about 20k miles on them too.  Oh well...

--xTalon

[78 k550]

I actually use a breaker bar like the old tire irons, that fits under the lip and pry like heck. Be sure you put a rag or something to protect the other side of the fork you are prying down against on. I can shoot you some pics if you need.

Paul

[xtalon]

I actually use a breaker bar like the old tire irons, that fits under the lip and pry like heck. Be sure you put a rag or something to protect the other side of the fork you are prying down against on. I can shoot you some pics if you need.

Paul

Thanks Paul.  I've already got mine out, but they left a bits and pieces of rubber everywhere that was bonded to the metal (somehow) and that's what I'm working on now.  Go ahead and post your pics since I'm sure others down the road will find them useful.  No amount of prying was getting these things out.

--xTalon

[Roach Carver]

you dont have the aluminum in the phosphoric acid do you ?

[BobbyR]

Any ideas what would cause the seal to bond with the metal.  I literally had to scrape it out and even then it didn't want to come out.  This has been a nightmare.  Supposedly the forks only had about 20k miles on them too.  Oh well...

--xTalon

With older parts you never know what people did. The seals may have been replaced and someone used an adhesive on them. People do the oddest things.

[TwoTired]

TT, some of the rubber is binding to the walls in some places, so I'm not 100% sure if I got everything, but I did remove a piece of metal from each that looks like a spring the was enclosed all the way around the seal.  Is this metal you are referring too or something else?

No.  The spring puts tension on the lip that slides on the upper tube.

There is also a metal band embedded with a slightly smaller O.D. than the I.D. of the fork lower.  This metal band is encapsulated in the seal rubber.  It sounds like you didn't pry out the whole seal body.

Do you have your new seals yet?  You can feel the metal band near the outer dimension through the rubber with your fingers.

Cheers,

[tomkimberly]

I would agree with TwoTired, it seems you have not removed the actual seal, just the rubber portion. I use a screwdriver and bent/shaped into a "J" hose clamp (to protect the fork) to remove seals.

Tom

[xtalon]

you dont have the aluminum in the phosphoric acid do you ?

Yes, the GL lowers (upper end w/ the seal) are standing in phosphoric acid (metal ready by POR-15) and have been for about 12 hours now.  It's not showing any ill effects and POR-15's website says it can be used even on aluminum (probably a weak solution?).  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be having much effect on the rubber residue either.

TT, yes I have the new seals.  I'll take a look at them and see if I can determine the location of the band as evidentally it has to still be in there as you and TomKim suggest.  There is a thin skin of rubber sticking to the metal all over that it's hard to see.

Stupid part about all this is that the seals weren't leaking, but since I bought the forks from someone else and they were off the bike, I thought what the hey, I'll replace the seals.  Now, I have this mess!

Thanks to all for input and suggestions!

--xTalon

[xtalon]

As the saying goes, pictures are worth a thousand words.  Here's a picture so you can see the bits of rubber everywhere.  It's also become apparant to me that these two lowers are different in this seal area.    On the outside, they look exactly the same.  I've also noticed that the new seals I bought don't look like the old seals.  The old seals have a lip that sat on the area I have marked as 'Different1'.

I couldn't tell from looking at the new seals where this metal band is located and I know I pulled nothing metal out except for the metal retainer spring that was encapsulated into the rubber.  Remember these are GL1000 forks and not CB750.

--xTalon

[TwoTired]

I'd say you have two different brands/ designs of fork seal remains still in the your fork lowers.  Pry them out and the seal lands will likely look the same in both lowers.

Cheers,

[TwoTired]

One more thing.  Since you have new seals that you know fit into these forks, measure the O.D. of them.  The I.D. where they fit will be dang close to that.  Remove any bits that are in the way.

Cheers,

[xtalon]

I'd say you have two different brands/ designs of fork seal remains still in the your fork lowers.  Pry them out and the seal lands will likely look the same in both lowers.

Cheers,

Good catch TT!  That's exactly what it is and what's been throwing me off.  Had two different types of seals.

--xTalon

[mrbreeze]

You would have played hell tryin to put the new seals in over the old shells!!!!!!

[chippyfive50]

yours are a little far gone at this point, but I have had luck driving some drywall screws into them(not all the way through) and pulling them out with pliers.
cheers

[IndianRider]

i had exactly the same problem very recently .. i got a set of '78 CB 750 F3 forks for the front dual disk brake conversion on my '78 K8 ..

the fork seals were so rusted that they were literally welded to the aluminum forks ..  i had to use a tiny screw driver to scrape and clean away the rust and use wd40 and pb blaster and what not to try to clean and lubricate the seal .. 

i was finally able to pry out the seals with seal puller ($7 at autozone) BUT with a very long pry bar ( 3 feet atleast ) attached to the handle of the seal puller for additional force..  trust me, you need this additional force to lever the seals out of the lower forks if they are rusted .. i cut and tore the seals to pull them out .. 

what ever you do, be careful not to scratch the inner surfaces of the lower fork tubes and the surface that the seal puller ( or screwdriver or what ever tool you are using to pry the seals out) rests on the lower fork tube as a fulcrum while prying  .. 

good luck ..  and  beleive me the 3 foot extension bar helped .. i tried for 2 days to try to to pry them out with a regular screwdrier or a regular length seal puller .. 

[IndianRider]

yours are a little far gone at this point, but I have had luck driving some drywall screws into them(not all the way through) and pulling them out with pliers.
cheers

this is a neat trick which can be used in "normal" conditions where the oil or fork seals can be easily removed and are NOT rusted or in bad shape .. i used this trick to remove and replace the camshaft seals on my nissan pathfinder which were in good shape and not 30 yeals old ..

[78 k550]

Not sure how to help on those. Look's like it is going to take some carefull thinking.

Paul

[xtalon]

Not sure how to help on those. Look's like it is going to take some carefull thinking.

Paul

I appreciate everyone's input.  These things aren't budging w/ anything I try, so I'm going to take them to my local Honda dealer and see if they can get them out.  I need to talk to them about new tires anyway.  Maybe if I buy 2 sets of tires (1 for the CB and 1 for my R6), they will throw in a 'pull out your fork seals' for free!   

In case anyone couldn't tell, this is my first time messing w/ fork seals and when I tried to pull/pry them out, the rubber either tore or ripped, where only the rubber came out and the metal stayed in.  Then when I saw the different looks of the metal because of two different seals, I couldn't tell what was part of the fork lower and what was part of the seal metal.  I've scrapped out most of the rubber (brake cleaner worked best to help soften) so I could better see what I was dealing with and then as it was pointed out, the forks had two different types of seals.  The other thing that was confusing to me is that the replacement seals I bought (leak proof fork seals) are via plyable and do not have rigid metal in them like the ones currently in the forks.  Which makes me wonder if I bought some cheap seals that aren't going to work very well or are the old seals just old technology that required the rigid metal?

Oh well, like everything, it's been a good learning experience... although somewhat frustrating.

--xTalon