Topic: Don Imus

[oldbiker]

I've never heard of Don Imus and don't feel deprived.  I'm so old I take people as I find them and if they treat me right I treat them right. If anyone calls me 'Honky' or any other stupid name I just accept that they are not bright enough to know better,

[Rocking-M]

Wow. With all due respect, that is just crazy talk. I can't believe people still think like this...

First a bit of history, supposed prejudice was not witnessed in the south in 1840
by Alex de Tocqueville in his book "Democracy in America" (an extremely insightful book on the problems
we have now).

Tocqueville didn't see any prejudice in 1840? Blacks were bought and sold like mules back then! Working for no pay - living in dirt floor shacks - beaten when they tried to run away. Slavery, remember? WTF?

Well if you want a fair unbiased and Nobel Prize winning account  of Slavery in the South I would suggest
you read "Time on the Cross" written by 2 Harvard Yankees (Fogel and Engerman sp?). Other facts you'll not find are that life for
a Slave was better than for an indentured "Slave". Death rates for the indentured "slave" ran as high as
90%. Only had 7 to 10 years to get what you could out of those worthless white trash you know!
Medical care for Slaves was the same as for the whites in the South. Slaves attend the same churches.
Slaves considered the whites their family, read 'The Slave Interviews" (I think that was the title, it was a WPA program
for unemployed journalist in the 30's who went around and interviewed the remaining living ex-slaves).
80% of those interviewed had fond memories of slavery and the families they were "enslaved" too!
As to working for no pay, I think you'll find if your read Fogel and Engerman's book,
slaves received 90% of the work back "in kind", might not be the worthless greenbacks we work for but
none of us has ever approached 90% return for what we work for so who is the slave?

As to Rxman's comments about having gotten away from this shat,
I can't think of a nice response to that so I'll only say, you never knew what the south was about
in the first place!

Historically, You see the difference between north and south is this.

Southerners love the individual, doesn't matter about the color.
Northerners loved the notion of a black race but didn't like the individual.

Perhaps the past President of the NAACP from Asheville, NC is worth listening to!

http://www.southerngrace.biz/bonnieblue/13_hkedgerton.htm

[CharlieT]

 Did you just step out of a time warp from the 1860's Maybe this here Yankee doesn't like his mixed race cousins or my grandson, eh? Into that revisionist history, too, I see.
Next time you get on a computer forum, try taking your white sheet off , must be hard seeing thru them little eye holes you got cut out in it!

[flatblack]

This episode was not really about race; it was about what passes for entertainment and information in our media.  It's about hate speech and bigotry, of all forms.

I don't mourn Imus; I never listened to him and never found him interesting or entertaining.  His comments were mean-spirited and without foundation.  He publicly maligned a group of women who were about as far away from his description as can be.  This episode didn't even get going well until they held their press conference, in which it became apparent how ill-informed and mean-spirited Imus' comments were.

Sharpton, Jackson, et. al., all have their skeletons.  So do I.  You do, too.

But Imus is only a symptom of the disease.  There's Coulter, Limbaugh, O'Lielly, Beck and a host of other liars and bigots salted throughout our media institutions.  The problem isn't Imus; it's that no one takes responsibility for what they say and do any more, facts be damned.

It's the year 2007.  We shouldn't even be having this conversation, not in a civilized, enlightened, modern society.  This kind of hatred went out with George Wallace.  But there are too many sheeple out there who think the 1950s were just great and want to return to the good ol' days.  Count me out...

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[Rocking-M]

Did you just step out of a time warp from the 1860's Maybe this here Yankee doesn't like his mixed race cousins or my grandson, eh? Into that revisionist history, too, I see.
Next time you get on a computer forum, try taking your white sheet off , must be hard seeing thru them little eye holes you got cut out in it!

I see you didn't take the time to read any of the material I posted before you pop off with your sheet #$%*.
Typical yankee respose.

[Roach Carver]

In other words, "Of course the darkies are happy- jes lissen to'm singin!"

BTW, there are doctors who specialize in black medicine for the same reason there are doctors who specialize in women's medicine.  In this case, black people seem to have higher incidences of heart problems.

I agree, there are people who specialize in many things, to be an oncologist you dont have to have cancer, to be an obgyn you dont have to be female. You do have to be black to be in the black cardiologists association. As far as I can tell, black cardiology is not an endorsed specialty program by the AMA.

Now then, I want to say that all things aside, I have met articulate, trustworthty, hardworking people of all races and have seen the opposite traits in all races. I treat people on a case by case basis.

[mlinder]

This episode was not really about race; it was about what passes for entertainment and information in our media.  It's about hate speech and bigotry, of all forms.

I don't mourn Imus; I never listened to him and never found him interesting or entertaining.  His comments were mean-spirited and without foundation.  He publicly maligned a group of women who were about as far away from his description as can be.  This episode didn't even get going well until they held their press conference, in which it became apparent how ill-informed and mean-spirited Imus' comments were.

Sharpton, Jackson, et. al., all have their skeletons.  So do I.  You do, too.

But Imus is only a symptom of the disease.  There's Coulter, Limbaugh, O'Lielly, Beck and a host of other liars and bigots salted throughout our media institutions.  The problem isn't Imus; it's that no one takes responsibility for what they say and do any more, facts be damned.

It's the year 2007.  We shouldn't even be having this conversation, not in a civilized, enlightened, modern society.  This kind of hatred went out with George Wallace.  But there are too many sheeple out there who think the 1950s were just great and want to return to the good ol' days.  Count me out...

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Don Imus was lame. Doesn't change the fact that he was fired because he is white and said something racist, whereas a black person would not have been.

Saying something like "it doesn't matter that he was fired cause his show sucks" is an illogical argument. You have to say "It's ok that he was fired for being a bigot because we should not tolerate bigotry in any form from any race or religion on the airwaves."
Once you've made the logical argument, you then realise that only the wite people are held to this standard, and no one else really is. So, who is being discriminated against, in reality? (at least, in cases like these..)

I see you can make a list of white bigots, but are unwilling to make a list of Black, Hispanic, Jewish, or Arab, or any other race of people, who are bigots.

You do realise what this kind of practice does, don't you? When people see lists like these, over and over, it conditions us to think "whites are bigots, but minorities are just excercising their rights".

And this isn't true. It's harmful to everyone.

[CharlieT]

Did you just step out of a time warp from the 1860's Maybe this here Yankee doesn't like his mixed race cousins or my grandson, eh? Into that revisionist history, too, I see.
Next time you get on a computer forum, try taking your white sheet off , must be hard seeing thru them little eye holes you got cut out in it!

I see you didn't take the time to read any of the material I posted before you pop off with your sheet #$%*.
Typical yankee respose.

WHy would I? So what if you can find a quote or two from an individual who supports your opinion. Doesn't take much common sense to figure out that good old Alex presents from one individuals point of view. Want a few hundred quotes espousing a different opinion??? Would matter because that is not what you are interested at all because its not the truth that you are interested in, you are only interested in supporting your revisionsit view of history in a manner in which supports your present day hatred and racism.
Typical hate-filled southern bigot response.

[mlinder]

whoops, misquote.

[CharlieT]

whoops, misquote.

uh....mlinder.....I think you need to rethink that last post of yours. Why on earth do you think that I was addressing anything at all that you said? I didn't quote you at all or make any reference to you or any of your posts.SImply because my post cam after yours in the thread does not mean that I was replying to your post at all.

IMHO, IMUS and Sharpton etal, deserve each other. And yes there are all kinds of bigots/racists, white, black, hispanic. asian, what ever. Prejudice knows no skin color. Individual blacks can be everybit as racist as any individual white person. The key there to me is it is the individual. ANy yankee can be a racist bigot just as any southerner can be. It is when you start expanding that opinion of individual behavior and begin to proclaiming that if one white is racist, then therefore all whites are racist, or that one yankee is a racist or that one southerner is racist, and therefoer all of those who fall into one of those categories is racist that you gone across that line of judging individuals on their own merits to the bigotry of judging an entire group of people based upon the actions of one. Is funny how it seems to some to be acceptable for our fellow forum memebr to condemn all northeners/yankess, but its offensive if someone replies in kind? That's why I put that in there, just to see what reaction there was here. Kind of lke the hypocracy of the Imus situation which has been discussed. A double standard of acceptable behaviors/comments.

[mlinder]

Right, realised it was not directed at me, and deleted the post.

I stand by my conviction that if Imus (as lame as he is) is barred fromt eh airwaves for saying"nappy headed hoes", then so should every member of a minority who's ever said something like 'himey', 'honkey', "zipperhead' or any other such thing on the air.

[xtalon]

Now then, I want to say that all things aside, I have met articulate, trustworthty, hardworking people of all races and have seen the opposite traits in all races. I treat people on a case by case basis.

Excellent philosophy and one I try to uphold myself.  The problem is that even by doing this, you can still be labelled a racist by certain individuals because certain individuals constantly throw the race card on the table as an excuse as to why they are not accepted, liked, agreed with, etc. etc, rather than their actions.

There is certainly still racism in the world today, but stereotyping non-racist individuals as racist because they don't like you or have a problem with you and happen to be from a different race is just as bad in my opinion, but no one talks about this.

My above comments were written outside the scope of the Imus discussion.

Is Imus a racist?  I have no idea.  I don't personally know the man and one STUPID comment doesn't necessary make him a racist.  It makes him stupid.

Should he have been fired?  He put a black eye on the networks.  The people that paid the bills (sponsors) voiced their opinion by pulling the money, so yes he should have been fired, but for these reasons and not because Sharpton and Jackson 'were calling for it'.  Two parasites who do nothing to help end racism, but only help feed it by blowing it up and agitating it and the people.  If racism ended, these two sucker fish would have to work for a living.  Martin Luther King, Jr. should be rolling over in his grave knowing these two charlotins are the voice and pseudo-leaders of the Afro-Americans.

I must add, that from what I saw, I thought the Rutger's coach and Rutger's women's basketball team handled it all very well and very professionally.

--xTalon

[flatblack]

Don Imus was lame. Doesn't change the fact that he was fired because he is white and said something racist, whereas a black person would not have been.

Saying something like "it doesn't matter that he was fired cause his show sucks" is an illogical argument. You have to say "It's ok that he was fired for being a bigot because we should not tolerate bigotry in any form from any race or religion on the airwaves."
Once you've made the logical argument, you then realise that only the wite people are held to this standard, and no one else really is. So, who is being discriminated against, in reality? (at least, in cases like these..)

I see you can make a list of white bigots, but are unwilling to make a list of Black, Hispanic, Jewish, or Arab, or any other race of people, who are bigots.

You do realise what this kind of practice does, don't you? When people see lists like these, over and over, it conditions us to think "whites are bigots, but minorities are just excercising their rights".

And this isn't true. It's harmful to everyone.

I don't recall saying "it doesn't matter that he was fired cause his show sucks."  Imus was fired because the companies for which he worked were going to lose money if they kept him on.

Show me some black, Jewish, Hispanic, Arab, Asian, etc., bigots and hate-mongers with a regular major-media outlet gig and I'll make a list of them, too.  Only one I can think of right now is Malkin, though I'm not sure of her ethnicity.

You're trying to make this about race, and that's probably justified, given the way the major media has spun it.  But you miss my point: Regardless of the speaker's skin color or ethnic background, the media is the problem; Imus just a symptom.  When a spotlight is shown on what they do and how they do it, #$%* like Imus getting fired happens.  If that spotlight was fired up more often, we might have the beginnings of fact-based, rational discourse on a variety of topics in this country, irespective of one's skin color, rather than the emotion-based, ratings-driven jingoism we have now.

If you maintain white males are in the misunderstood, hands-tied minority and can't say what they think, knock yourself out.  I don't agree.

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[mlinder]

I don't mourn Imus; I never listened to him and never found him interesting or entertaining.

Never liked Imus, he looked like a puppet sitting back in his chair with that super nerdy cowboy hat perched high atop his frizzy grey rat's nest of a wig. His show's lame, his anchors were lame, his topics were lame, he's lame, he's done. Cool.

I've never heard of Don Imus and don't feel deprived.

All these comments suggest that he was a dumbass (he was), and hell, it's ok to can him because he's a dumbass.

f you maintain white males are in the misunderstood, hands-tied minority and can't say what they think, knock yourself out.  I don't agree.

There are thousands of things white males can't say, yet minority leaders (or just minorities) are allowed to say without any real repercussions.
Do I really need to give examples to prove my point?

Down the hall from my office is a company that gets loans for minorities and women to start businesses. I am not allowed to use their services, though I make no more money than most of them do.
There are thousands of grants and scholarships I am not able to apply for, because I am caucasian.

(as a side note, let me give an older websters definition of caucasian.. Anthropology. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of one of the traditional racial divisions of humankind, marked by fair to dark skin, straight to tightly curled hair, and light to very dark eyes, and originally inhabiting Europe, parts of North Africa, western Asia, and India: no longer in technical use.)

Do I think these services should not be available to minorities? Hell no, I think it's great. I wish more people would use the resources available to them.
But don't tell me I have more, or even equal, rights to minorities here in the 'northern' states.
What you agree with doesn't matter. What is, matters. Opinions are just that, opinions. That is what agreements or disagreements are. Neither can stand up to factual data. You cannot agree or disagree with facts.
 

[cafehonda]

The 1st amendment is there to protect unpopular speech; in fact that is the only type of speech that needs to be protected. Unless someone is abusing thier 1st amendment rights to incite, libel or harrass, content doesn't have anything to do with it. This country seems to be hurtling towards some sort of Orwellian catastrophy. The willingness of some people to decide what is right for others is a disturbing trend, unfortunately one that I don't see changing anytime soon.

[mlinder]

The 1st amendment is there to protect unpopular speech; in fact that is the only type of speech that needs to be protected. Unless someone is abusing thier 1st amendment rights to incite, libel or harrass, content doesn't have anything to do with it. This country seems to be hurtling towards some sort of Orwellian catastrophy. The willingness of some people to decide what is right for others is a disturbing trend, unfortunately one that I don't see changing anytime soon.

Seriously.

I do not personally think that the basketball players in question are 'nappy headed hoes'. Do you think Imus' statement could make me think they are? Do you think anyone who agreed with him did not think that in the first place?
Are people so blind and sheepish that they can be led around by the nose in their opinions by a dumb#$%* like Imus?
If they can, they deserve what's coming to them.

[Uncle Ernie]

Well, it sort of depends on whose facts.  
I kinda don't think there are too many objectives facts anymore.  Sort of like equal rights laws.  Does anyone think they weren't necessary?  Does anyone wonder why they were written and put on the books?  Does anyone even for a moment think enforecment is somewhat capricious?
Does anyone here really think any minority has more rights then white folks?

As far as Imus goes; he was not stupid.  He just got used to hearing himself and assumed nothing would happen.  Reminds me of kids in college smoking dope in the halls and acting like it's their right.  What a surprise when they get busted!  He got paid to be a butt-head.  I saw a snip of his show where he called some whilte politician a "fat f*ck" without the asterik.  I get the feeling that when you're comfortably on top, you develope a smug hubris that lets problems roll right off your back.  Our current government has (to me, anyway) shown signs of this.  It just takes longer to make changes.  Anyway, guys like shock jocks are only saying what their listeners are thinking, or those fans wouldn't be tuned in.   Some just know where the line is and where not to step. Ann Coulter is another- she's just saying what her fans are afraid to.  
The government protects his right to say what he wants, but the advertisers decided it got too scarey.  Wimps.

[Uncle Ernie]

"Are people so blind and sheepish that they can be led around by the nose in their opinions by a dumb#$%* like Imus?
If they can, they deserve what's coming to them."

Sure they are!  That's how Bush got voted in twice!  And yes, this country deserves what it's getting right now.

[mlinder]

Well, it sort of depends on whose facts. 
I kinda don't think there are too many objectives facts anymore.  Sort of like equal rights laws.  Does anyone think they weren't necessary?  Does anyone wonder why they were written and put on the books?  Does anyone even for a moment think enforecment is somewhat capricious?
Does anyone here really think any minority has more rights then white folks?

As far as Imus goes; he was not stupid.  He just got used to hearing himself and assumed nothing would happen.  Reminds me of kids in college smoking dope in the halls and acting like it's their right.  What a surprise when they get busted!  He got paid to be a butt-head.  I saw a snip of his show where he called some whilte politician a "fat f*ck" without the asterik.  I get the feeling that when you're comfortably on top, you develope a smug hubris that lets problems roll right off your back.  Our current government has (to me, anyway) shown signs of this.  It just takes longer to make changes.  Anyway, guys like shock jocks are only saying what their listeners are thinking, or those fans wouldn't be tuned in.   Some just know where the line is and where not to step. Ann Coulter is another- she's just saying what her fans are afraid to. 
The government protects his right to say what he wants, but the advertisers decided it got too scarey.  Wimps.

Good points, and my opinion is close to yours.

[mlinder]

"Are people so blind and sheepish that they can be led around by the nose in their opinions by a dumb#$%* like Imus?
If they can, they deserve what's coming to them."

Sure they are!  That's how Bush got voted in twice!  And yes, this country deserves what it's getting right now.

Social Darwinism at work.
But, like both you and I said, the people listening to Imus haven't had their opinions changed by what he said, only enforced. Enforced positively or negatively. He hasn't started any kind of movement in one direction or another.

[Rocking-M]

I see you didn't take the time to read any of the material I posted before you pop off with your sheet #$%*.
Typical yankee respose.

WHy would I? So what if you can find a quote or two from an individual who supports your opinion. Doesn't take much common sense to figure out that good old Alex presents from one individuals point of view. Want a few hundred quotes espousing a different opinion??? Would matter because that is not what you are interested at all because its not the truth that you are interested in, you are only interested in supporting your revisionsit view of history in a manner in which supports your present day hatred and racism.
Typical hate-filled southern bigot response.

Yea I'm a hate filled southern bigot, I hate damn yankees, I can take anyone else doesn't matter what color.

If you had taken the time to even look at the link that is from a modern day Black Man.
I guess to you he's an Uncle Tom, and you could even call that to him his face and
he'd give you an intelligent response. I on the other hand if standing with him when
you called him that would kick your sorry yankee ass.

[USN20]

Just my humble opinion ... Looks like another chapter in: dirty money & politics.

The whole incident appears to be staged as Don Imus knew exactly the right words to say. Seems that the Sharpton-Jackson camp need to "perpetuate the struggle" so that "progress" can continue to be made, otherwise they are out of a job. These anti-black racial comments have a habit of popping up when things have been quiet for a while. Don Imus didn't fall on his sword for nothing and the Sharpton-Jackson camp got exactly what they wanted. The real tragedy here was the women on the basketball team who were sacrificed to fuel this corrupt agenda. The power of money & politics should never be underestimated.

[Uncle Ernie]

There's another level that hasn't been brought up about a different minority; women.  Unless it was a sports writer talking about a losing streak or bad sportmsmanship, nobody would ever diss a men's basketball team of any colour.   Women seem to get away with calling each other #$%*es just as some black folks seem to be OK with calling each other n*ggers.   Bad juju in my opinion.  I hate to quote a second-rate psychologist, but sometimes you do teach people how to treat you.  Words do carry weight.

[mlinder]

There's another level that hasn't been brought up about a different minority; women.  Unless it was a sports writer talking about a losing streak or bad sportmsmanship, nobody would ever diss a men's basketball team of any colour.   Women seem to get away with calling each other #$%*es just as some black folks seem to be OK with calling each other n*ggers.   Bad juju in my opinion.  I hate to quote a second-rate psychologist, but sometimes you do teach people how to treat you.  Words do carry weight.

Using the term 'minority' for women bothers me. They are 50.7% of the US population.
Blacks are 12.8%, hispanic 14.5%, and white at about 67%.
White males are a smaller minority than women of all races combined, obviously, being second only in population to white females. (white male being about 33% of the US population.)

/edit: 45% of firms owned in the U.S. are owned by non white-males.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Rockin M,

"As to Rxman's comments about having gotten away from this shat,
I can't think of a nice response to that so I'll only say, you never knew what the south was about
in the first place!"

I'm not going to blast you. I respect you as an individual but may not agree with you on some things. I do agree with you on your 750F. Nice bike!

I know the south I grew up in but perhaps not yours. In my south there was a lot of HATRED, both black and white. Why, perhaps because it was passed from generation to generation. Perhaps we should refer to this as "generational hatred". After all, our parents were our keepers and taught us what they learned from their parents. It seems quite a lot of that hatred is born out of ignorance also, not just a learned behavior. Change is slow sometimes as it is with the racial thing. My grandmother was old Virginia. She would often use the term "darkies" and thought she was being very beneviolent (in the 50s). That was her way of trying to be better a better person and do the right thing. As she aged and tried to do the right thing she would use the term "colored", thinking thats what the proper term was during that time frame (60s). It always pissed her off when I would ask her "what color granny". Thing is, she tried to change. I got drafted into Mr Nixon's famous fighting unit (US Army) and soon realized there was only 1 color (green). Being trained as a combat medic for Viet Nam soon made me realize that my buddy next to me was the one that kept me alive and vice versa. Yes, he was black and I white but we all were green. Thing is, I changed. I am the proud old parent of a 10 year old. We no longer live in Kentucky even though there are many good people there. Why, because I wanted her to grow up in a different more eyes open environment. She understands this too. We have friends of all colors without the HATRED. They are called FRIENDS.

So back to Imus, some combination of learned behavior, stupidity (perhaps momentary), and perhaps some HATRED whether real or not. I don't listen to talk shows anyway so it doesn't matter to me if good ole Don has been forced into retirement or not. Just seems these guys just want to stir up some #$%*, which obviously it has, and get paid mega$$$. It's my choice, I turn that #$%* off.