Topic: CB500/550 Rear Retainer Ring Removal - GOT IT!!

[Dr. Frankenstein]

I'm going to be replacing the rear bearings on a 1974 550/4 and luckily have a trashed rear wheel to practice on, but which way does the retainer ring unscrew, Left or Right? There's a directional arrow inscribed on the face of it, but I don't know if that's the wheel direction of travel or the ring's...Is it reverse-threaded/does the retainer ring unscrew to the Left or the Right?

[Alan F.]

If the retainer has never been removed it will have 4 areas where the threads have been center punched or 'staked' to keep the retainer from backing out. These areas need to be drilled out before the bearing retainer can be unscrewed. It's a simple process with a drill press and easy to tell when you've drilled through the threads.

After that the retainer ring unscrew fairly easily, lefty loosey.

Edit: Righty-loosey as corrected by @CycleRanger in Reply #4

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Yes, I've already drilled out/down the peen marks, but another good question - how deep do I have to go?  And as you mentioned, it does unscrew to the left? I thought the retainer was reverse threaded. The inscribed arrow on the face of the retainer does point to the left.

[CycleRanger]

From the Shop Manual.
And you only need to drill down maybe an 1/8 inch.

[Alan F.]

A left hand thread, so Righty-loosey.
Thanks @CycleRanger

If memory serves, I drilled further than 1/8", the hub's threads continue deeper than the retainer ring and there is an air space in there before the drill bit contacts the next surface. With a drill press it was easy to tell, it might be tougher with a hand drill.

From my stalled K8 build thread written that day,
"I chucked .150" drill bit in my drill press and drilled out the staking. I'd never done this before, but I remember lots of threads where it was important to drill deep enough. I found it very easy to tell when I'd drilled deep enough by feel, just as some threads had said. Then I clamped the hub in my vise and used a 6 penny nail to tap the bearing retainer loose, I placed the head against the retainer slots and tapped against the point of the nail. It worked very well and the retainer came out easily and undamaged. I deburred the threads with an exacto knife and threaded it fully into the spare hub with just a fingernail against the slots."

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Well here's what's happening: the bike came to me with the wrong rear wheel on, turns out it was a CB350 wheel. I got a "550" wheel from another builder so everything would fit right, but I am having a helluva time getting the bearing retainer loose; I even bought the retainer removal tool from Common Motor, which 'helps,' I guess, but now my problem is I don't know if the newer rear wheel is from an Early model (my bike is a '74 550K) or a newer 550 ('77-78), which I understand unscrews the 'regular way?

The retainer tool helps somewhat by giving me a better purchase in the retainer holes, but after drilling out the peen marks I first tried unscrewing the retainer in the regular direction (lefty-loosey)  and was able to get it moved about a quarter inch before it stopped and wouldn't budge anymore. After reading that some rear wheels (like in the Early models) were actually reverse-threaded, I tried getting it to budge in the opposite direction, trying to pound it to the Right to at least get it back to the original peen point, but even after heating it up with MAPP gas it won't budge at all and I'm afraid I may have over-tightened it. 

Is there any way to tell which model year the wheel is? The manual says it should be a left-hand thread, but I don't know which one I have! The trashed wheel I was trying to 'practice' on has an arrow pointing to the left, but the 'good' wheel does not have any markings on it...I'm puzzled.

[bryanj]

I thought all the 500/550 used the same retainer

[Dr. Frankenstein]

That's what I'm trying to ascertain - and which way they unscrew! I got the CB500/550 rear wheel bearing retaining wrench from Common Motor Collective (GB Motorcycle Products on your side of the pond), and it *helps, but I don't know for sure which way the retaining ring unscrews. The manual says it's a left-hand thread, so it should unscrew to the right, but I have drilled out the peen points and tried heat (MAPP gas), PB Blaster, Kroil, harsh language and even a redneck wrench (length of pipe) with no success, and the retaining ring itself is getting buggered up.

The other wheel 550 I was practicing on meanwhile has an engraved arrow pointing to the LEFT/Counterclockwise - so is that the direction it goes, or unscrews?? Or to the Right??

I wish they made that retainer tool to fit an impact wrench...

[bryanj]

Just checked part numbers 41231323020 fits all 500 and 77 550k3 so i guess ALL 550 and it is definately a LH thread BUT it is staked from new and frequently super tight

[Dr. Frankenstein]

You got that right - this thing is tighter than a clam at low tide....

[bryanj]

If you have a big vice attached to a sturdy bench it can be easier to clamp the tool in the vice and turn the wheel

[Deltarider]

If you have a big vice attached to a sturdy bench it can be easier to clamp the tool in the vice and turn the wheel

This ^. But be prepared... after disassembly many retainers will show a rotten condition and will need to be replaced. Causes are: a combination of its material and its fine thread and lack of preparation. I was lucky once, but... even after thorough preparation, the retainer may need to be replaced.

[bryanj]

At least they are available as a pattern part now, a lot cheaper

[Alan F.]

Are you absolutely sure you drilled deep enough with a large enough drill bit?
Any staking that remains will bugger the threads beyond patience.

[Little_Phil]

I have the tool that locates in the four holes. The lever is not very long. Done a few. But with one very tight one I used a long bolt through the wheel centre and the tool with some big washers to hold the tool in place so that it didn't slip out of the holes. And whacked it with a mallet. Yes LH thread so turn CW to loosen.

[CycleRanger]

I use a pin spanner like this:
https://www.amazon.com/ATPEAM-Variable-Spanner-Wrench-Adjustable/dp/B091FCSQDT

But that tool from Common Motor should be adequate.

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Here's a pic of the bugger - The Common Motor tool is "okay" but it has a tendency to slip out, the pins on it are not exactly machined well. I'm just laying the wheel flat on the bench (so far) and even tried using a length of pipe to get it to move - but to clarify, according to Little Phil the correct way to turn it is counterclockwise...? Like, 'Lefty-Loosey'?  I thought a left-hand thread meant that you unscrew it Clockwise.

The rotational arrow on the tire itself points to the left/direction of travel, and the tire is mounted as it should be.

I'm just trying to get the retainer ring to move in ANY direction as yet; I've been pounding on the Common Motor tool handle with a 5 lb sledge with no luck at all. As I mentioned, first I tried pounding it to the Left, as you would when you're regularly unscrewing something and it did move a bit, like a quarter-inch...but then after doing some reading on the topic and reading that it was a 'left-hand thread' I thought I might have been moving it in the wrong direction, so I tried pounding it back at least to the original peen marks and have been unable to do that, either!

I'm using MAPP gas to heat it up for about ten minutes (maybe not long enough??) and lots of PB Blaster, Kroil and harsh language, but still No Joy.  It may be a stupid question, but which way does this sucker go? I'm on the verge of using Extreme Measures - at least to get it back to the original peen point - and realize that means I will have to sacrifice the ring - but GD - are they ALL this tight??  Would it do me any good to drill all the way through the ring, again?

[CycleRanger]

Turn it clockwise (to the right) to loosen.

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Thank you, CR, I will do that! Is that pin spanner more effective?

[jonda500]

My wheels all still have the original 50yo bearings in them and they still turn smooth so I haven't had to do this yet, but this is what I would do:

Get a four pin tool, a long bolt or threaded rod and some big washers, thread through the axle hole and tool to hold the tool in place like Little Phil said (finger tight the nut only); then turn over and secure the tool tightly in a sturdy vice, grab the wheel by the tyre and turn clockwise loosening the nut after the wheel starts to turn. (Like brianj said!)
John

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Here's where I get confused  - if I do that and turn the tire/wheel clockwise, to the Right, with the tool holding the retainer in place, that means the retainer held in place by the tool will turn to the Left, or counterclockwise; CycleRanger says the ring turns to the RIGHT to unscrew it, which would mean I turn the wheel to the LEFT so the retainer turns to the RIGHT...   

CR, did you mean turn the WHEEL or the retainer? I took it to mean the retainer turns to the right... (And Yes, I myself am having trouble trying to figure out why this concept is so hard to grasp, Lol...!  )

If I could just get it to move in either direction I think I would have a better grasp on which way it goes, but it just does NOT want to move. I'm afraid I'm going to have to get Medieval on its ass...

[Deltarider]

My wheels all still have the original 50yo bearings in them and they still turn smooth so I haven't had to do this yet, but this is what I would do:

Get a four pin tool, a long bolt or threaded rod and some big washers, thread through the axle hole and tool to hold the tool in place like Little Phil said (finger tight the nut only); then turn over and secure the tool tightly in a sturdy vice, grab the wheel by the tyre and turn clockwise loosening the nut after the wheel starts to turn. (Like brianj said!)
John

Yes, the original bearings live long, can easily outlive your bike and don't need maintenance. I once saw suggested here they need maintenance. Not so. Below my homemade tool. Realise that the hub needs to be heated for a loooong time, before anything will move.

[bryanj]

Bearings only need removing when they are fubar as removing them wrecks them due to having to beat on centre race

[Dr. Frankenstein]

My rear inner bearing won't turn without an effort, and when it does it feels crunchy. So, yes, I would say fubar. Ergo I'm trying to replace them both. New ones are in my freezer waiting.

[Little_Phil]

Just to repeat: With the wheel fixed, turn the retainer clockwise. It's a LH thread. And to stop the tool slipping out use a long bolt (or whathaveyou) through the wheel (where the axle goes) and through the centre of the tool to hold it in tight. You will need to loosen this as the retainer unscrews.