Topic: Another 550K Ignition Timing Question

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Is there a definitive way to set the points and ignition timing on a 550K in here anywhere? The manual has one way, Common Motor has another way, and I'm Really thinking about going to electronic ignition! Speaking of Common Motor's way, what's with setting the gap at that tab past the F/T marks?  And WHY there? The book says set the gap at the F mark, but they roll past it to that tab...here's the video if you want to watch it:

As I mentioned - is there a definitive step-by-step post in here? And just to be clear, the test light should come on when the points OPEN, yes?

[HondaMan]

The way I always taught the customers how to set their points (when I had my shop) was:
1: DO NOT turn the engine CCW with the big nut by the points. This will bend the shaft that mounts the spark advancer, skewing all readings, making for erratic timing. Remove the sparkplugs. This makes the engine easier to turn CW.
2. Set the "L" points (same on Twins) to 0.014" with the engine turned to the high side of the points cam (he 2-3 points are closed at this point).
3. If you have a strobe light: turn the engine 180 degrees from above and gap the 2-3 points to 0.014" also. If you're doing it without a strobe light, you can do this step later (see Step 6).
4. With a strobe light: connect strobe to #1 or #4 spark wire, start the engine, run it at idle (not more than 1200 RPM). Fire the light at the timing marks and turn the entire points plate to align the "1-4 F" mark to the indicator in that little hole in the points plate. Snug down the plate's screws there.
5. With a strobe light: connect the strobe to the #2 or #3 spark wire and adjust the position of the subplate for the 2-3 points to align the indicator to the "F" mark for the 2-3 side. Snug down those subplate screws. You're done!
Without strobe light:
6. Connect an ohmmeter to the 1-4 points' wire, then slowly turn the engine forward (CW) to see when the points open: they should open at the "F" mark for the 1-4 cylinders. If not, turn the entire plate [left or right] so this happens on the mark.
7. While the 1-4 points are just barely opening, set the gap of the 2-3 points to 0.014". They are on the high side of the points cam. Connect the ohmmeter to them.
8. Turn the engine about 120 degrees, then turn it slowly while watching for the 2-3 points to just open. This should happen when the "2-3 F" mark is at the indicator. Adjust the 2-3 subplate to reach that spot.
9. Recheck points gap: it should be in the range of 0.012"-0.016" when the opposite points are closed.

Today:
Sometimes the points are not made correctly: the position of the pivot pin might be out-of-position slightly or the length of the 'foot' of the points rocker arm may be too long (Daiichi points are famous for these issues). If the "1-4 F" mark cannot be reached with the points gap in the range of 0.012"-0.016" and the baseplate for the points is up against the end of the screw slots, try increasing the points gap beyond 0.016" (no more than 0.018" or else the points may not close on the low side of the points cam) to see if the timing marks will line up. In this situation, the 2-3 points will need a similar gap setting.

Some owners have widened the slots of the timing baseplate to make Daiichi (or old FEW) points work at 0.016" gap: that's another possibility. But, if the gap is larger than 0.018", the points will just barely be closing on the low side of the points cam, which will make for misfire and rapid burning of them. In that case, try filing down the foot of the points (keep it as square as possible) to get the gap closer to 0.014". The Daiichi points can work that way, or they can work (if you have the Transistorized Ignition) with as little as 0.008" gap if you go too far with the filing action. I have run them that way (hacked on, on purpose) to test with this electronic assist, and it works out fine.

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Thanks HM; I'll start fresh and try increasing the points gap to .016 (it's at .014 now, IIRC) and see what happens. I've done points before, but they're always a chore.

[HondaMan]

Are you fighting with a set of Daiichi points?

[Dr. Frankenstein]

There's no name on them, but they were aftermarkets from Motomentum...? I've bought from them before with no problem...I'm pretty sure my troubles are because of me, but this afternoon I went back to 'square one' and started fresh and here's what's happening: this time I set the points to .012, the minimum gap according to the Clymers I'm using (previously it was set at .014). Every time I roll up to the 1/4 F mark, my test light goes OUT as I hit the F mark; I tried rotating the plate and got the light to light up for a second, but then no more. I roll PAST that, (points 1 and 4 are opening) and the test light lights up again even though the 1/4 points are open and my test light is connected to the blue wire, and I have not yet gotten to 2/3...I have a feeling I am doing this backwards. I have done points before (I swear! ), but this time they are just not behaving. What am I doing wrong??

Points are a big PITA for me, I'm pretty sure I'm going to electronic ignition after this, but I like to know how things work and make sure I understand it before I go modding stuff.

[HondaMan]

From the description, I suspect your points might still have their protective coating on them? They get sprayed with a thin coat of [something like] cosmolene after they are made so they won't corrode or rust if they sit on the shelf in a humid clime for years. Maybe try cleaning them with some serious solvent? (I use brake cleaner spray or lacquer thinner.)

What happens with the coating on them is: under full spring pressure (closed) the metal touches metal, but as the points barely begin to open the coating will (either) push the contacts apart slightly until the slack disappears in the pivot point, when they touch again, or the spray-on protectant is still fluid enough in the contacts that it can rush in at the beginning of points movement, separating the contacts, but when the points cam puts enough pressure on the rubbing foot to take the slack out of the pivot, they align to a different spot on their faces and make contact again.

This all amounts to the same thing: the points appear to open twice, but it's often just caused by the protectant flowing across the contact faces. It has a very strong affinity for the metal, enough to make the points stop conducting at slow, static opening speeds. I usually just open the contacts and wipe them with lacquer thinner first, then spray them with brake cleaner, followed by a [tiny!] drip of oil to the pivot joint. You never can tell how long they sat somewhere?

[Dr. Frankenstein]

I just noticed something interesting - I was turning the engine over by hand and noticed that when I roll up towards 1/4 "F" mark that the POINTS on 2 and 3 start to open when I get to the "F" mark; same thing for 2/3: when I roll up on the "F: mark for 2 and 3, the points on 1/4 start to open; I think I may be 180 degrees out, but when I put the camshaft in, I made sure that little slot in the end was parallel with the cylinder head and I had the advance set to 1 and 4...I guess it won't make a difference as long as I time the ignition to the appropriate point, but will it? I put a buzz box on it too and sure enough, that's what's happening - but HOW?? And if that's the case, all I really need to do is switch the wires at the coils, right?

Like I said: if there's a way to screw things up, I will find it! 

[bryanj]

PLEASE LISTEN The cam has NOTHING to do with ignition timing

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Good to know - you got a solution? I tried switching the coil wires out, that was no good; I've reset the gap umpteen times, following the manual - but question though: the manual says to set the gap when the points open their widest - did that, set the advance to "F" on 1/4, still no good. The points seem to open way past where they should, and close where they shouldn't. I've tried moving the plate, and the other smaller points plate, but still no joy. What am I missing?

From what I can glean, the rubbing blocks can have an impact on timing - is there a source for them? Mine looks a little worn, but I'm not sure what constitutes 'worn.'     

[bryanj]

The rubbing block comes with the points, i dont know what you are doing wrong i am too far away.

Start by turning the engine over slowly and carefully watching what the points do looking at 1&4

As you turn the crank you will get to a point where the heel on the points just touches the cam and the points start to open, they will then open more and at some point will be all the way open, this is where you adjust the gap to 0.35mm or 14 thou.

Now keep on turning all the way until you get to where the points just open, checked with bulb or ohmmeter. At this point the F mark for 1&4 should line up with the static mark on crank case, if not rotate the large points plate till it does, now rotate further till points fully open and recheck the gap, which i guarantee will have altered.

You have to keep checking both things till both are spot on, it may take hours the first time.

In your case i would disconnect the wires to points in the rubber boot by rear brakelight swich and use an ohm meter to check when points open( max ohms) and close (min ohms)

Then you have to do the same all over again for 2&3 moving the small points plate.

Sorry cant make it simpler than that

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Well, I haven't tried that method yet - I will report.

[HondaMan]

The points cam in the spark advancer is 180 degrees out-of-position.

I know, because I have done it before.

More than twice.

[Deltarider]

What Byanj described, is a good method when you expect it will take some time: it eliminates the risk overheating the coils in the process of adjusting and/or depleting the battery.
If you happen to have a TEC advancer this is how it looks like in rest when assembled correctly. Watch where the tiny mark is in the rim. In rest it opposes the hole and the TEC logo. After dissassembly some assemble it 180 degrees out. If you have a Hitachi or ND advancer the mark in the rim has to face their logo at rest.

[dave500]

looks like this.

[BomberMann650]

Its worth knowing how to set points on a motor.
When its right, its right.
Electronic ignition is good for those wanting a little extra from the engine.  Smoother, steadier, and higher.
Both have their risks and benefits.

[HondaMan]

Transistor Ignition gets the best of both worlds.