Topic: Will the Dyna S ignition solve my points woes?

[tmht]

No hijack intended here, but I gotta ask:  If I install a Dyna S, a pair of Dyna green 3 ohm coils, and a set of 8mm supression Dyna wires, do I need to switch from D8EA plugs to DR8EA (resistor)?  I ask because it appears that the wire boots are not resistors, and the description on Z1 doesn't mention this. 

I honestly don't know. I am sure Glenn at z1enterprises would be happy to answer that question for you though. I gotta ask though... Why use the suppression core wires? The dyna is a solid state device and should not have any problems with interference. I could be wrong though, one of the electronics gurus will certainly chime in if I am.

[ic455]

No hijack intended here, but I gotta ask:  If I install a Dyna S, a pair of Dyna green 3 ohm coils, and a set of 8mm supression Dyna wires, do I need to switch from D8EA plugs to DR8EA (resistor)?  I ask because it appears that the wire boots are not resistors, and the description on Z1 doesn't mention this. 

I honestly don't know. I am sure Glenn at z1enterprises would be happy to answer that question for you though. I gotta ask though... Why use the suppression core wires? The dyna is a solid state device and should not have any problems with interference. I could be wrong though, one of the electronics gurus will certainly chime in if I am.

Just have alot of experience with supression core (9 years as auto technician) and 8mm are apparently only available in supression.  I just like really big wires for some reason

[HondaMan]

It's not the heat down here, it's the humidity that will potentially cause that unit problems (HondaMan's not the Dyna). I think you'll be happy with the dyna unit. It works well even in our gross summer weather. I have had one on my 400 down hear in NOLA for over 3000 miles and have had zero problems with it. And at the moment I only have kick start available as my button is broken again.

No, the humidity will actually improve the cooling on my unit. Hot, dry, high-altitude is the worst combination for these devices, mine and Dyna's (or anyone else's, for that matter) because air density is the coolant. Mine are sealed well enough to keep the hi-PSI carwash out of them, but they run warm enough to cook out any accumulated moisture they might somehow entrain. The case is designed to breathe, and on purpose. Epoxy-encased electronics always have short warranty cycles because they cannot be repaired, nor diagnosed, if they are inadvertently damaged by an owner. Mine are repairable, if someone manages to destroy one (which hasn't happended yet!).

And, mine come with a 5-year warranty....

[Bob Wessner]

..hi-PSI carwash ..

A bit off topic, but noticed this and it reminded me of something I was going to post anyway. Not sure how many folks use a pressure washer on their bikes (or car for that matter), but recently read that tire manufacturers don't recommend them for cleaning tires. It seems the pulse frequency damages the tire cords.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[ofreen]

I've posted this a few times, so I won't repeat everything I've said before.  I installed the Dyna S in my 750F in 1989 and the ignition now has over 85,000 miles on it.  So the Dyna S is reliable.  I paid $85 for it back then and it has paid for itself and then some.  Another benefit is that spark plugs last longer.  I changed the last set with 20,000 miles on them and I probably didn't need to.  I also have the 3 ohm Dyna coils on the bike. 

If you don't put a lot of miles on the bike, or you just like dinking around with them, points are fine.  Otherwise, the Dyna is an improvement in every way.

[jonbuoy]

Alright...  I'm supposed to be at the Blessing of the Bikes RIGHT NOW.....

Either Honda sold me a bad battery or my points have had it.  My initial guess is that my points have had it, and that I am killing my brand new battery trying to get my 550 started.

I'm just about to release the Transistorized Amplifier that runs from the points in these bikes. I designed it to expressly solve this problem, after some discussions with other SOHC-ers here.

This unit costs about $60-$65 (for use with stock Honda coils), and I give a 5-year warranty with it. All you need do is connect it between the points and coils, then one wire to ground and the other to a switched +12v source, like the black wire at the coils. The points will then last until their rubbing blocks wear off!

Search for "transistorized" and you'll see the thread about it. It's been in test since January of this year, both here in my shop and with some other SOHC-ers from here.

(P.S.: I think GammaFlat is too kind...    )

Thats a very reasonable price for a custom made product like that with a 5 year warranty.  I'll keep watching.

Cheers

[ic455]

I've posted this a few times, so I won't repeat everything I've said before.  I installed the Dyna S in my 750F in 1989 and the ignition now has over 85,000 miles on it.  So the Dyna S is reliable.  I paid $85 for it back then and it has paid for itself and then some.  Another benefit is that spark plugs last longer.  I changed the last set with 20,000 miles on them and I probably didn't need to.  I also have the 3 ohm Dyna coils on the bike. 

If you don't put a lot of miles on the bike, or you just like dinking around with them, points are fine.  Otherwise, the Dyna is an improvement in every way.

are you using resistor caps or regular wires/boots with resistor plugs?

[Hope]

Alright.  I ordered the Dyna S.  Got it in.  Should be studying for a biology final exam, but opted to install the Dyna S instead.  Here's what happened:

(I installed the Dyna ignition just like the directions said)
1.  Took off points cover plate
2.  Removed 10mm bolt and hex washer holding the spark advance assembly to engine
3.  Removed the 3 screws holding the points plate to the engine (they were too tight - had to pound a socket on them and ratchet them off). Disconnected blue and yellow wires, removed plate assembly.
4. Removed spark advance assembly from engine
5. Removed points cam from advance assembly
6.  Coat advance assembly shaft with oil
7. Install advance/rotor assembly on engine
8. Install the Dyna S using 3 screws that were previously removed
9. Route cable to points
10.  Connect yellow and blue
11. Removed fuel tank, spliced wires
12. Plug the red wire in

I was ready for the timing procedure.... or was I?  I realized that the Dyna points cam was still in the Dyna box.  I needed to take my stock points cam off, and put the Dyna points cam on the spark advance assembly.  Now, I needed to repeat steps 2-5, then install the Dyna points cam in place of my stock points cam. 

However, when I tried to loosen the 10mm bolt, SNAP!!!!!  Tell me I'm not freaking loosing it here.  I could scream right now.  I went from installing a Dyna ignition to having to possibly drill out a bolt.

I get very emotional when I start working on this bike then f*ck up.  This was my Dad's 75 CB550, and he passes away in 1998, and I can't believe I just broke a bolt off in the engine.  Please tell me it's going to be okay.

I have drawn a red square around the bolt that I broke off.  You will note that this is a bolt that is on a moving part, so I believe it goes clockwise to loosen.  Please tell me how to get the broken bolt out.  If I drill it, won't the shavings from the bolt be in the motor?

[cafe75-550]

Hope-

The bolt in question is not a reverse thread (despite being threaded into the crank), so it will be counter-clockwise to loosen.

As far as drilling it out, I might be inclined to take this to a machine shop if it needs to be drilled. As I mentioned, the bolt in question threads into the crankshaft, so messing up has some pretty high consequences.

On the other hand, drilling it out will not result in metal in the engine, the crank seal will keep this stuff out, and the threads do not continue into the engine. You should not have to pull the engine. I would first remove the rest of the ignition plate and advance mechanism to see if there is enough bolt sticking out of the crank to get a grip on, or if its broken flush with the threads. If its not flush you may be able to grab it with something (vise grips, etc), or dremel a slot into the the broken bolt and use an impact driver.

Best of luck!

Bryan

[Hope]

Took off the rest of the ignition plate and advance assembly.  I see where the bolt broke off.  It's not quite flush.  Looks like it is just under the surface.  I dunno if I can grab it.  Will try again in the daylight hours.

[cafe75-550]

Took off the rest of the ignition plate and advance assembly.  I see where the bolt broke off.  It's not quite flush.  Looks like it is just under the surface.  I dunno if I can grab it.  Will try again in the daylight hours.

Always a good idea to wait until you're thinking straight again. You may be able to cut a slot into the bolt with a dremel and use an impact driver to break it free...

[Jinxracing]

Took off the rest of the ignition plate and advance assembly.  I see where the bolt broke off.  It's not quite flush.  Looks like it is just under the surface.  I dunno if I can grab it.  Will try again in the daylight hours.

Hope, that is terrible luck! If the aforementioned dremel tool technique doesn't work, you can try carfully drilling the bolt and using and EZ-out. There are quite a few threads on here dealing with broken bolt removal IIRC.

Whatever means you need to resort to to get the bolt out, make sure you take deep breaths and keep emotion out of the equation. Sometimes it's tough to keep from letting anger and frustration cause a small problem to turn into a much bigger one. Good luck!

[TwoTired]

If the threads aren't too buggered, there may be no tension or drag on the screw threads.  If this is so, you may be able to simply take a pointed scribe, dig in a bit near the outer portion of the stub remains and spiral turn it out of the crank threads, counter clockwise, of course.  Sure beats drilling and an easy out when it works.

Cheers,

[Hope]

Okay, I looked at the bolt in the daylight and now I can see that the booger is broke off about as deep as an eraser on a pencil.  There is nothing to grab on to so the vice grip idea is out.


Please keep in mind that this bolt was over tightened, which is why it snapped.  Also please keep in mind that my ignition? gears? will be trying to turn when I get the bolt turning.  Seems like I will have nothing to grab on to in order to stop that.  Will the bolt still loosen?  Won't everything be turning if/when the bolt turns?

[eurban]

The compression of the engine as well as internal friction will provide some resistance.  You can also place the bike in gear to help hold things.  Sounds like you can either try and fix this yourself or take the whole shebang to a machine shop.  If you work on it yourself you will need some screw extractors, penetrating "lube", and some heat would be a good idea.   Also, they do make reverse cutting drill bits which might just get the remaining portion of the bolt turning out without the screw extractor.  You will have to drill a hole in the center of the bolt if to use the screw extractor anyways so if you can find the reverse bits, at least you will be applying force in the correct dirrection (and generating a bit of heat too).  Good luck . . .

[Short Round]

I had a similar problem with the bleeder valve on my caliper.  I took it to a machine shop and the guy welded a nut to the top of it, waited a few min and turned it loose.  It took him a few tries but it eventually came fee.  I would take it to a machine shop.  They will know how to get it out properly, and most of the guys in my previous experience charge little if anything to do this.  Hope you get it sorted out...................Chris

[Gordon]

If the threads aren't too buggered, there may be no tension or drag on the screw threads.  If this is so, you may be able to simply take a pointed scribe, dig in a bit near the outer portion of the stub remains and spiral turn it out of the crank threads, counter clockwise, of course.  Sure beats drilling and an easy out when it works.

Cheers,

Try TT's approach first.  It's always best to start with the easiest solution and work your way up!

[Hope]

Thanks to everyone who helped with my broken bolt.  After I got about 2 hrs of sleep, I started fresh and combined all of your theories.  Here's how I got the bolt out:

1.  Sprayed lubricant on bolt last night
2.  Sprayed lubricant on bolt this morning
3.  Started out with 1 little pin hole size bit in the dremel, concentrating on hitting that broken bolt DEAD CENTER (this was key)
4.  To keep down the heat, sprayed more lubricant
5.  Waited for bolt to cool down, calculated which dremel bit would be best for next drill in bolt
6.  Fumbled around with the bits a bit
7.  Found the next small bit, drilled with dremel
8.  Sprayed with lubricant
9.  Fiddled with bits.  Decided on the etching bit, drilled with etching bit
10. Smacked a star shaped tool in there that is usually used for ignition and headlight screws on my mom's old Dodge Spirit (I figured because of the shape I would be able to get a grip in there)
11. Didn't turn, sprayed a little more lubricant, drilled a little more with etching bit...
12. Sprayed a little more lubricant
13. Smacked the star shaped screw driver with a hammer into the bolt
14. Turn counter clockwise
15. Bolt came out

Whew!  Thanks SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much to everyone who contributed.  This could have gone really bad, but after I combined all of your information with a little patience and ingenuity, it came out really good.  Thanks again guys - couldn't have done it without you.  Off to Honda for the replacement bolt.

Love you guys!

[masonryman]

persistence nearly always wins, glad you got it out, the star shaped thing is a torx screw driver, it looks allot like a screw extractor with out the twist

[CB750R]

Nice work with improvising your screw extraction, but tip for next time, smacking that bit in may have caused what was left of the stud to bulge and lock itself in place even harder. now if your still on the improvising track and need a new stud to put back into the crank you could find the appropriate length bolt with the correct metric thread, and cut it off with that handy dremel, then clean up the thread with a little triangle shaped file, or chasing the thread through with a bolt till it spins on and off freely, then I'd use some blue locktite, and thread your new stud into the crank.  The Black round "cam" is what you want to install in place of your stock one.  make sure the little "tabs" on either side of it line up with the advancer weights, and pay attention to the little round mark on the side of the black cam, and position it according to the instructions. Thats the magnet that triggers your new ignition!   

[ofreen]

are you using resistor caps or regular wires/boots with resistor plugs?

I used the original caps and Dyna wires.  I have NGK DPR8EA plugs in there now, but have used D8EA plugs with no apparent difference.

Sorry I took so long.  I didn't see the question til today.

[Hope]

Now I am trying to set my timing.  Has anyone ever had backfiring when they were trying to time the engine statically.  I put test light on the blue wire and a ground, started slowly turning the wrench and watching for the test light, them BAM came from my right pipe.  I never saw the test light, but then again the backfire scared the #$%* out of me.

Is there an adjustment I need to make so I can set my timing statically.

BTW I had the 1-4 on the top, and I have the marks lined up 1/2 inch from the F.
Does it matter that I used the black and white wire on the right coil ?  Did I have to connect the red wire to the main black and white wire that goes to both coils?

Again, all help will be appreciated

[TwoTired]

I'm not familiar with the dyna.  But, it is possible to assemble the points advance cam 180 degrees out of phase, making the wrong cylinders fire.  It could explain the backfire issue. 

cheers,

[Hope]

duh.  I'm an idiot.  Done.  Fixed.  Nice ride I had!  Woohoo.. no backfiring and quick start up.  This is the way to go!

[hymodyne]

Dyna s is a good reliable system.
hym