Author Topic: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)  (Read 16637 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,334
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2007, 02:23:57 AM »

I think you're just easily insulted Greg, and you'd rather attack my opinion than admit that you're sidestepping the real issue here. Cheers, Terry. 

Probably no easier than you. I've seen your feathers get ruffled a few times on these forums when others have kidded you, offering to give them a thumpin'.  I wasn't particularly insulted, but I recognise an insult when I see it.  I explained to you in a PM why I wasn't going to join in a gun control debate on this thread.  I also raised some points in that PM that you did not respond to, so telling me I am sidestepping the issue is rather ironic.

According to you, those of us that believe that taking guns away from law abiding citizens is not the way to solve events such as the VT tragedy do not care about the victims, "crying crocodile tears."  That is an ad hominem attack and is not addressing the issues.  It is simply an insult toward those that disagree with you.  Believe me, I care and it outrages me that the authorities created a so-called "gun-free zone"  that enabled Cho to kill without worry that someone would have anything other than their bare hands to stop his attacks.  There have been several instances where a citizen with a firearm has stopped such tragedies.  You won't hear about them in the news, though.

Regards.

Well, in my opinion, "giving them a thumping" is a much more manly thing to do I reckon, than shooting them Greg, and as to your other points in that PM you sent me, well, to be honest, I got bored and stopped reading it mate, sorry about that, but your PM, like most of your posts, was a little long winded, and I've only got a short attention span, or perhaps just a low tolerance to verbosity. Cheers, Terry.
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline edbikerii

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,128
    • Gallery
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2007, 02:57:11 AM »
But I also understand that to some of you, your right to own a gun is much more important to you than the lives of fellow Americans murdered in staggering numbers every year, so maybe it'd be better if these sorts of threads not be allowed on this site, because I can see that some of you guys are just crying "crocodile tears" about the VT tragedy, when in fact you really couldn't give a rats ass how many American kids kill each other, as long as no-one takes your precious guns away.

Pretty amazing statement.  Your ad hominem attacks are unwarranted and insulting to those who believe differently than you.  Crocodile tears indeed.  Your way is the only way, is that it?

I think you're just easily insulted Greg, and you'd rather attack my opinion than admit that you're sidestepping the real issue here. Cheers, Terry. 

No Terry, he's saying you're a jerk.  But he's doing it in a nice, logical, latin way.

I'll say it my way:  You're a jerk.  You ignore every well-formulated argument that disagrees with your own, and make insensitive personal attacks like "crocodile tears" just to stir the flames of an argument in a country far, far away, that is none of your business anyway.  Too bad the logical, rational arguments are not too "long-winded" for you to mind your own business.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 03:08:55 AM by edbikerii »
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline ofreen

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,052
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2007, 03:18:49 AM »
Well, in my opinion, "giving them a thumping" is a much more manly thing to do I reckon, than shooting them Greg, and as to your other points in that PM you sent me, well, to be honest, I got bored and stopped reading it mate, sorry about that, but your PM, like most of your posts, was a little long winded, and I've only got a short attention span, or perhaps just a low tolerance to verbosity. Cheers, Terry.

Well, the PM was a couple of short paragraphs, certainly no longer than your posts on the subject.  This is a complicated subject that can't be discussed intelligently with sentences made up of 3 or 4 single syllable words.  If you had bothered to read the PM all the way through, you would have encountered a compliment to you.  Obviously, the feeling is not mutual, so we are done.  It is pretty irrelevant what an Australian thinks about this topic, anyway.  It is something that we have to settle among ourselves over here.

Greg
'75 CB750F

"I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question." - Dr. Wei-Hock Soon

Offline bill440cars

  • Feeling More & More,
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,358
  • Tryin' To Slow Down "Time"!
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2007, 05:29:39 AM »


         Question for those who are simply blaming this on our lack of Gun Control:

                   A guy (or gal) goes out drinking, gets drunk, hits and kills someone on the way home.

           Who (or what) is responsible?

                 a. The driver?
                 b. The car?
                 c. The Booze?
                 d. The bartender?
                 e. The victum, for being there?
                 f. all of the above?

                  Just something I think we ought to think about. :-\

                                                         Later on, Bill

           
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2007, 06:27:08 AM »
Ed, CONgress was certainly jumping to go to Iraq, Look at all the money to be made. This deficit only affects the american people in the long run. Of course at the time, congress was repub just like or pres.  Most american people were duped into believing we needed to go to iraq cause "WMDs" and the "terrorist" threat. They believed what they were told by the white house after all, no pres had lied so much since nixon. Had the truth of matters come out, then I doubt we would have gone to iraq.

As for terry, he is PART of his govt. He is in the military there and for the career military, almost all of them think the civilians should not have guns. Makes their job easier when the eventual take over begins.

Offline edbikerii

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,128
    • Gallery
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #155 on: May 04, 2007, 07:58:58 AM »
Yes, WMD intelligence was a bit of a strange question, wasn't it.  As I recall that "intelligence" came from all kinds of sources, including that of several other nations.  It was convincing enough that England and Australia both agreed to join the multi-national coalition in support of attacking Iraq.  I'm sure that it would have been difficult to convince all those nations without something that was credible at the time.  Or do you think that England, Australia, et al, are just a bunch of meanies who wanted to attack Iraq for fun, too?

Ed, CONgress was certainly jumping to go to Iraq, Look at all the money to be made. This deficit only affects the american people in the long run. Of course at the time, congress was repub just like or pres.  Most american people were duped into believing we needed to go to iraq cause "WMDs" and the "terrorist" threat. They believed what they were told by the white house after all, no pres had lied so much since nixon. Had the truth of matters come out, then I doubt we would have gone to iraq.

As for terry, he is PART of his govt. He is in the military there and for the career military, almost all of them think the civilians should not have guns. Makes their job easier when the eventual take over begins.

Yes, good observation.  I've noticed that some percentage of law enforcement and military personnel seem to think they have a god-given right to railroad everybody else's constitutionally guaranteed rights.
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline CrisPDuk

  • Christ on a bike! Me, an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,115
  • Oh happy day! 3rd December 2005
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #156 on: May 04, 2007, 08:45:12 AM »
Yes, WMD intelligence was a bit of a strange question, wasn't it.  As I recall that "intelligence" came from all kinds of sources, including that of several other nations.  It was convincing enough that England and Australia both agreed to join the multi-national coalition in support of attacking Iraq.  I'm sure that it would have been difficult to convince all those nations without something that was credible at the time.  Or do you think that England, Australia, et al, are just a bunch of meanies who wanted to attack Iraq for fun, too?

Ed, CONgress was certainly jumping to go to Iraq, Look at all the money to be made. This deficit only affects the american people in the long run. Of course at the time, congress was repub just like or pres.  Most american people were duped into believing we needed to go to iraq cause "WMDs" and the "terrorist" threat. They believed what they were told by the white house after all, no pres had lied so much since nixon. Had the truth of matters come out, then I doubt we would have gone to iraq.

As for terry, he is PART of his govt. He is in the military there and for the career military, almost all of them think the civilians should not have guns. Makes their job easier when the eventual take over begins.

Yes, good observation.  I've noticed that some percentage of law enforcement and military personnel seem to think they have a god-given right to railroad everybody else's constitutionally guaranteed rights.

I can't speak for the Australians but the non Murdoch reading section British public was deeply suspicious of the WMD 'evidence' from the beginning, mainly because the percieved (and as it turns out actual) source, Alastair Campbell, had already proven himself to be deeply untrustworthy on several previous occasions >:(
Blair bullied and railroaded the decision through parliament utilising both his overwhelming majority and the leader of the opposition's tendency toward simpering acquiescence :(
The reasons behind Blair's blithely following in Dubya's wake are another subject entirely.

At least your troops have the support of the government that sent them there, thanks to the despicable, scruffy, Scottish pension thief that is our Chancellor, ours are having to put up with continual cuts in pay and equipment budgets >:(
Education: Elitist activity. Cost ineffective. Unpopular with Grey Suits. Now largely replaced by Training."


1978 CB550 K3
1985 H100S

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #157 on: May 04, 2007, 08:50:27 AM »
Quote
Blair bullied and railroaded the decision through parliament utilising both his overwhelming majority and the leader of the opposition's tendency toward simpering acquiescence


Revision: Blair Bush bullied and railroaded the decision through parliament Congress utilising both his overwhelming majority and the leader of the opposition's tendency toward simpering acquiescence. ;)
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline edbikerii

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,128
    • Gallery
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: PRO AMERICA CONTENT)
« Reply #158 on: May 04, 2007, 10:09:38 AM »
I can't speak as knowledgeably for representative government in England, and I won't try.  The fact is, England, as a nation, agreed to support the coalition.

Why do some Americans that disagree with decisions made by their elected representatives so often absolve themselves when things don't go the way they thought it would go when they voted?  The fact is, you and your fellow voters (us) elected those representatives.  You had your chance, and you'll have another chance next time they are up for re-election.  If that's not good enough for you, then you can always exercise your right to seek impeachment if there are any real grounds.  Anything else is just pure whining.

Most importantly, to say, or even speculate, that elected representatives were bullied into signing that 2002 resolution by anything but voters is nothing but pure BS.  If anything, those elected officials may have been "bullied" by the overwhelming public support for attacking Iraq that was present in 2002.  After all, elected representatives are nothing if not vote-whores.  Just look at how Hilary Clinton is now looking for 'backsies' on that resolution after she wholeheartedly supported it back in 2002.  Think she gives a damn about anything except being the next president?

Quote
Blair bullied and railroaded the decision through parliament utilising both his overwhelming majority and the leader of the opposition's tendency toward simpering acquiescence


Revision: Blair Bush bullied and railroaded the decision through parliament Congress utilising both his overwhelming majority and the leader of the opposition's tendency toward simpering acquiescence. ;)

SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #159 on: May 04, 2007, 11:30:59 AM »
Speaking only for myself, I didn't vote for Mr. Bush either time. Had I, it would have meant I changed my mind (allowable) about him and his policies. I don't see any reason to continue supporting a mistake even if I had. Had the candidate I did vote for, gotten elected, I would probably still would have made a mistake.

Still looking.. :-\
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline edbikerii

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,128
    • Gallery
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: PRO AMERICA CONTENT)
« Reply #160 on: May 04, 2007, 12:15:08 PM »
Ok so you didn't vote for him.  That doesn't matter.  Even if you did, and you changed your mind, that doesn't matter either.  We live in a representative democracy.

To the "constant dissenters" out there:
If you had your chance (your election), and you feel you lost, be a big boy, and stop whining.  You have no right to trample on all the people who exercised their votes and won.  You'll have another chance to elect your candidate next time.  In the meantime, you've had your congressional elections, too, so stop whining.  You get to research and select your candidates, promote your candidates, place your vote, see how it turns out, then live with it until the next election.  That's how it works in a representative democracy.  You shouldn't whine about it for four or eight years and try to undermine the system and the nation's morale.  If you don't like it, then you should lobby to have the representatives impeached if there are ANY REAL REASONS, or to have the constitution amended.  If you think there's a better way to run this country than as a representative democracy, why not see how that turns out -- start your own revolution!

Speaking only for myself, I didn't vote for Mr. Bush either time. Had I, it would have meant I changed my mind (allowable) about him and his policies. I don't see any reason to continue supporting a mistake even if I had. Had the candidate I did vote for, gotten elected, I would probably still would have made a mistake.

Still looking.. :-\
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #161 on: May 04, 2007, 12:22:19 PM »
Thanks for the civics lesson.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #162 on: May 04, 2007, 12:38:32 PM »
So you are the only allowed whiner here ed? You certainly gripe enough. Well looks like impeachment might happen. If it does, good riddance to horrible rubbish.

Just as an fyi, texas has passed a bill saying that when bush's term is up, they will remove his name from state signs.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/03/bush-to-be-removed-from-welcome-to-texas-signs/

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #163 on: May 04, 2007, 12:47:35 PM »
Oh come on, Ed.  Quit with the jibber-jabber and just come right out and say that if somebody doesn't agree with you, they should just keep their mouth shut.  It would take a lot less effort than your current strategy.

Offline Jv550

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • '75 CB 550 K
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #164 on: May 04, 2007, 01:00:37 PM »
Ed, you'll probably consider it whining, but I feel the need to point out that Bush was never actually elected in the first place. He was installed by an activist court in 2000, and in 2004 squeaked into office after some very suspicious circumstances in Ohio and Florida. If anyone is trampling "on all the people who exercised their votes and won," it's the current administration.

And as far as the 2nd amendment goes, answer me this: Do you honestly think Cho should have been allowed to own a gun? Was he part of a "well-regulated militia?" Our first amendment rights have never allowed us to say anything we want--why should the 2nd amendment be construed to mean that any one of us can bear any arm we want? Should I be able to own a stinger missile or an rpg launcher? Should high school students across America be subjected to the burden of carrying firearms to school on the off chance a couple of their peers might go off the deep end?

I'm an American, a gun owner and not even all that liberal. But this argument that everyone should carry a gun around to either a) protect themselves against other gun owners or b) protect themselves against the government, is ludicrous. I don't think you guys are crying crocodile tears over VT, but I do think you're deluding yourselves when you claim that more guns are the answer to gun violence. And the idea of fighting off the government with store-bought handguns is a brave but impotent fantasy.

Bill 440: The driver is to blame. But comparing guns and cars on the basis that they can both kill people is fallacious. Cars are not made for killing or injuring people. Guns are. In fact, their sole purpose is to kill or injure people. The government regulates all sorts of things that can hurt us and we don't complain about that. Some old lady dies because there's e coli in her spinach salad and the next day, you can't find one leaf of spinach in any supermarket in the country. Yet when some nut kills thirty people with a handgun, the response is to rush to the defense of the gun industry?

Doesn't make sense to me...
That's like hypnotizing chickens...

Offline edbikerii

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,128
    • Gallery
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #165 on: May 04, 2007, 01:39:20 PM »
Yes, you're right.  I consider that Florida and Ohio election BS the pinnacle of whining.  The DNC approved the ballots, and then complained later that they were no good.  What could be more obvious than that?  I agree that the ballots were confusing, but I wasn't asked for my approval before they were used.  The DNC was.  Moreover, they were not particulary confusing that the average idiot could screw up that badly.  Have you ever accidentally pressed the button for the wrong candidate when you were voting?  Did you go ahead and pull that giant lever anyway?

Had the process worked correctly in the Cho situation, the school officials should have reported his crazy behavior to the police, his stalking incidents should have been reported, etc.  If the people responsible had done their jobs, Cho never would have been able to buy the guns.  I don't think we was as resourceful as the common everyday criminal in NYC who can get a gun more easily than any law-abiding American citizen.  Instead, he probably would have filled up a 5 gallon container of gasoline, chained the exits and burned hundreds of students to death.  Should we ban combustible materials because so many arsonists have killed so many people?  Remember the Happyland incident in which 87 people died when a jealous lover torched a club with a gallon of gas.

I'm not arguing that everyone should carry a gun.  I don't generally carry one.  I am arguing that the POSSIBILITY of law-abiding citizens carrying guns serves as a deterrent to otherwise powerless maniacs like Cho.  The only power he weilded over his victims was that he was the only person with a gun.  Furthermore, the sole purpose of law enforcement carrying guns is not "to kill people".  It is to act as a deterrent to crime, and it is VERY EFFECTIVE.  Or do you think we should take away the guns from the police too?

More women, particularly young women, should get trained in firearms usage, and they should carry guns.  Statistics show that 1 in 4 women are rape victims.  That number is completely outrageous.  The possibility of getting killed trying to rape a woman would greatly reduce the number of rapes, even if the perpetrator were also carrying a gun.

Ed, you'll probably consider it whining, but I feel the need to point out that Bush was never actually elected in the first place. He was installed by an activist court in 2000, and in 2004 squeaked into office after some very suspicious circumstances in Ohio and Florida. If anyone is trampling "on all the people who exercised their votes and won," it's the current administration.

And as far as the 2nd amendment goes, answer me this: Do you honestly think Cho should have been allowed to own a gun? Was he part of a "well-regulated militia?" Our first amendment rights have never allowed us to say anything we want--why should the 2nd amendment be construed to mean that any one of us can bear any arm we want? Should I be able to own a stinger missile or an rpg launcher? Should high school students across America be subjected to the burden of carrying firearms to school on the off chance a couple of their peers might go off the deep end?

I'm an American, a gun owner and not even all that liberal. But this argument that everyone should carry a gun around to either a) protect themselves against other gun owners or b) protect themselves against the government, is ludicrous. I don't think you guys are crying crocodile tears over VT, but I do think you're deluding yourselves when you claim that more guns are the answer to gun violence. And the idea of fighting off the government with store-bought handguns is a brave but impotent fantasy.

Bill 440: The driver is to blame. But comparing guns and cars on the basis that they can both kill people is fallacious. Cars are not made for killing or injuring people. Guns are. In fact, their sole purpose is to kill or injure people. The government regulates all sorts of things that can hurt us and we don't complain about that. Some old lady dies because there's e coli in her spinach salad and the next day, you can't find one leaf of spinach in any supermarket in the country. Yet when some nut kills thirty people with a handgun, the response is to rush to the defense of the gun industry?

Doesn't make sense to me...
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline edbikerii

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,128
    • Gallery
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #166 on: May 04, 2007, 01:43:05 PM »
Where is the argument here?  Have a problem with what I said?  So let's see your "well thought out response".

So you are the only allowed whiner here ed? You certainly gripe enough. Well looks like impeachment might happen. If it does, good riddance to horrible rubbish.

Just as an fyi, texas has passed a bill saying that when bush's term is up, they will remove his name from state signs.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/03/bush-to-be-removed-from-welcome-to-texas-signs/
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline edbikerii

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,128
    • Gallery
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #167 on: May 04, 2007, 01:48:38 PM »
You are right.  I'm obviously wasting a lot of effort trying to present logical arguments when people respond with crybaby comments like "jibber-jabber" instead of coherent arguments.  If my intent was to tell people to "just keep their mouth shut" why would I bother to present logical arguments?

Oh come on, Ed.  Quit with the jibber-jabber and just come right out and say that if somebody doesn't agree with you, they should just keep their mouth shut.  It would take a lot less effort than your current strategy.
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline Jv550

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • '75 CB 550 K
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #168 on: May 04, 2007, 02:00:15 PM »
I never said we should take away people's guns. Clearly that's not going to happen. But more people carrying guns around is not a deterrent to violence--it is an invitation for it. I'm glad we at least agree that Cho shouldn't have had one! Now let's get to why the gun industry has for years pushed the notion that everyone in this country is entitled to own a gun. The 2nd amendment does not say that, any more than the first says I should be able to shout 'fire' in a crowded theater if I feel like it...

Interesting you should mention women and guns. The gun industry has been marketing to women heavily for the last few years because so many men already have them their sales had gone down. In fact, women are just as likely to be killed by a gun-owning intimate than raped by a stranger. The most common fatal use of a handgun is not self-defense - it is commonly either suicide or a man killing his wife or girlfriend. And women living in a home with guns are three times more likely to be murdered than if there is no gun in the house.

That's like hypnotizing chickens...

Offline edbikerii

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,128
    • Gallery
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #169 on: May 04, 2007, 02:07:56 PM »
See my source for the following: http://www2.ucsc.edu/rape-prevention/statistics.html

Only 2% of rapists are convicted and imprisoned. (US Senate Judiciary Committee 1993)

Around the world at least I women in 3 has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused in her lifetime. Most often the abuser is a member of her own family. (John Hopkins School of Public Health 2000)

In a study of 6,000 students at 32 colleges in the US, 1 in 4 women had been the victims of rape or attempted rape. (Warshaw 1994)

13% of college women indicated they had been forced to have sex in a dating situation. (Johnson and Sigler, Jnl. of Interpersonal Violence, 2000)

In a study of 6,000 students at 32 colleges in the US, 42% of rape victims told no-one and only 5% reported it to the police. (Warshaw 1994)



I never said we should take away people's guns. Clearly that's not going to happen. But more people carrying guns around is not a deterrent to violence--it is an invitation for it. I'm glad we at least agree that Cho shouldn't have had one! Now let's get to why the gun industry has for years pushed the notion that everyone in this country is entitled to own a gun. The 2nd amendment does not say that, any more than the first says I should be able to shout 'fire' in a crowded theater if I feel like it...

Interesting you should mention women and guns. The gun industry has been marketing to women heavily for the last few years because so many men already have them their sales had gone down. In fact, women are just as likely to be killed by a gun-owning intimate than raped by a stranger. The most common fatal use of a handgun is not self-defense - it is commonly either suicide or a man killing his wife or girlfriend. And women living in a home with guns are three times more likely to be murdered than if there is no gun in the house.


SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline Jv550

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • '75 CB 550 K
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #170 on: May 04, 2007, 02:24:53 PM »
You're right. Those damn women should quit whining and arm themselves. What are they thinking going out on dates without packing heat?
That's like hypnotizing chickens...

Offline edbikerii

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,128
    • Gallery
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #171 on: May 04, 2007, 02:28:36 PM »
Oh come on, man.  Are you trying to twist my words around, or just trying to be funny?  There's currently no deterrent for rapists when only 2% of rapes ever result in a conviction and imprisonment.  Don't you think a lot of the other 98% of those pigs might think twice if it wasn't so easy to pull it off? 

You're right. Those damn women should quit whining and arm themselves. What are they thinking going out on dates without packing heat?
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline bill440cars

  • Feeling More & More,
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,358
  • Tryin' To Slow Down "Time"!
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #172 on: May 04, 2007, 02:36:03 PM »


I'm an American, a gun owner and not even all that liberal. But this argument that everyone should carry a gun around to either a) protect themselves against other gun owners or b) protect themselves against the government, is ludicrous. I don't think you guys are crying crocodile tears over VT, but I do think you're deluding yourselves when you claim that more guns are the answer to gun violence. And the idea of fighting off the government with store-bought handguns is a brave but impotent fantasy.

Bill 440: The driver is to blame. But comparing guns and cars on the basis that they can both kill people is fallacious. Cars are not made for killing or injuring people. Guns are. In fact, their sole purpose is to kill or injure people. The government regulates all sorts of things that can hurt us and we don't complain about that. Some old lady dies because there's e coli in her spinach salad and the next day, you can't find one leaf of spinach in any supermarket in the country. Yet when some nut kills thirty people with a handgun, the response is to rush to the defense of the gun industry?

Doesn't make sense to me...

            I'm not saying that everybody should have guns. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have guns. I'm simply saying that guns weren't made for folks to go out and start shooting others. The point I was trying to make is, as soon as something like this happens, some jump on the ban wagon and want to start banning guns. Right, if guns were banned, nobody would have (or be able to get) a gun. ::)  Why is it that people can't see that we need to paying closer attention to what's going on around us? ??? Maybe, just maybe, if someone would have noticed that this kid was so withdrawn and his writings were so angry and disturbing that his teacher threatened to quit her job, things might be a lot different. :-\  And understand, I'm not rushing to the defense of the gun industry. The gun manufacturers didn't do this Cho did. There was all kinds of times that someone should have tried to do something with him several years ago and maybe, we would have this topic. Seems to me that this has gone to hell in a hand basket. Too many people spend too much time trying to tell others what they (the other people) are saying.


                                                       Later on, Bill  :)
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline Jv550

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 154
  • '75 CB 550 K
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #173 on: May 04, 2007, 02:37:07 PM »
If the justice system doesn't adequately protect women, then the justice system needs to be fixed. If more women carried guns, I suspect more rapists would too. Guns are not going to deter most acquaintance rapes or drug (GHB) rapes, and if a woman tried to protect herself after the fact, she'd probably be prosecuted for it...

Oh come on, man. Are you trying to twist my words around, or just trying to be funny? There's currently no deterrent for rapists when only 2% of rapes ever result in a conviction and imprisonment. Don't you think a lot of the other 98% of those pigs might think twice if it wasn't so easy to pull it off?

You're right. Those damn women should quit whining and arm themselves. What are they thinking going out on dates without packing heat?
That's like hypnotizing chickens...

Offline edbikerii

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,128
    • Gallery
Re: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)
« Reply #174 on: May 04, 2007, 02:42:44 PM »
So what's your suggestion?  I think 98% of those pigs getting away with rape is a pretty clear indicator that the justice system offers no deterrent whatsoever.  How would you change it?

If the justice system doesn't adequately protect women, then the justice system needs to be fixed. If more women carried guns, I suspect more rapists would too. Guns are not going to deter most acquaintance rapes or drug (GHB) rapes, and if a woman tried to protect herself after the fact, she'd probably be prosecuted for it...

Oh come on, man. Are you trying to twist my words around, or just trying to be funny? There's currently no deterrent for rapists when only 2% of rapes ever result in a conviction and imprisonment. Don't you think a lot of the other 98% of those pigs might think twice if it wasn't so easy to pull it off?

You're right. Those damn women should quit whining and arm themselves. What are they thinking going out on dates without packing heat?
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711