Author Topic: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)  (Read 16635 times)

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Offline gerhed

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2007, 06:51:41 AM »
Several years ago I sent the two lights of My life down to James Madison University
which is just up the road from Virginia Tech.
As an American, a Virginian, and a father I am grieving.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2007, 07:35:49 AM »


May I never go through what those families are going through now.

Raul

May none of you go through this. We lost our wonderfull 18 year old son in an auto accident this past Jan 28. It's almost unbearable. My first thoughts after hearing this was of all the greiving families. God be with them.
Jay, the death if a child is something I cannot personally fathom. My Prayers are with you brother.
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But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2007, 07:39:29 AM »
Here in the UK our thoughts are with you and all those who have lost dear ones.

Our problem if that happened here is that the person who took out the shooter would be prosecuted for murder.
In the U.S. you have the right of self defense. Even if tried, no Jury would convict you. In fact a Grand Jury would dismiss you and you would not even be charged.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2007, 07:43:06 AM »
This is bringing up some crap in me I sure wasn't expecting...

Blaming God or the campus police or whatever is just useless.  It's too bad, but sometimes sh!t happens.  No rhyme or reason.  it just does.
Dude- your 8 layers are showing!

Offline Rsnip988

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2007, 09:01:47 AM »
Here in the UK our thoughts are with you and all those who have lost dear ones.

Our problem if that happened here is that the person who took out the shooter would be prosecuted for murder.
In the U.S. you have the right of self defense. Even if tried, no Jury would convict you. In fact a Grand Jury would dismiss you and you would not even be charged.

Actually you would be charged as a felon for having a firearm in a state owned building, (no guns allowed in any school  buildings, instant 5-10yr sentance).... however you wouldnt be charged for shooting the shooter
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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2007, 09:32:23 AM »


Jay, my condolences to you and your family. We nearly experienced this 1 1/2 years ago with
our eldest. But in no way can I know what you have gone through. Our best to you and  yours.
Robert

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2007, 09:39:55 AM »
Not true here Richard, just this year VT banned guns from Campus.

Before, particularly 20 years ago guns were prevalent on Campus and the
ROTC there carried real weapons, not the kind with the firing pin removed.

I believe more folks should exercise their constitutional right to bear arms.

It seems that to me that VT's officials and particularly Chief Flinchum did the best they could
given the situation, as pointed out, VT is virtually Blacksburg, I don't think the
Campus could even be "Locked down" as we would understand it.
All lock down means is the buildings could be locked to permit only VT students,
something about a swipe card access as I understand it this would have never stopped
the movements of the individual who committed this terrible act.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2007, 03:29:34 PM »
Here in the UK our thoughts are with you and all those who have lost dear ones.

Our problem if that happened here is that the person who took out the shooter would be prosecuted for murder.
In the U.S. you have the right of self defense. Even if tried, no Jury would convict you. In fact a Grand Jury would dismiss you and you would not even be charged.

Actually you would be charged as a felon for having a firearm in a state owned building, (no guns allowed in any school  buildings, instant 5-10yr sentance).... however you wouldnt be charged for shooting the shooter

As a former Peace Officer, you would be charged with nothing. No DA or Grand Jury in his right mind would move against a hero. They are politicians.  Now having said that, here in NY there is a quirk that probably exists other places. If the shooter is actively engaged in shooting, YOU ARE PREVENTING A CRIME. If he is fleeing and you point you deer rifle out the window and take him out, you may have a problem. In NY I can prevent a rape with a gun, but once he starts, I can't - go figure  . To keep CC permit I need to take classes on this stuff. If you popped that guy during that spree, you would get the key to the City.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline heffay

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2007, 04:18:55 PM »
as a moderator watching the discussion... let's please stay away from the "he would be charged for this" type of discussion... there is NO way for any of us to predetermine what jury members, prosecutors, attorneys, judges, etc. might or might not do in a court of law.

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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2007, 06:17:08 PM »
OK let's pray for those killed and their families. Let us also pray that this never happens again.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline bill440cars

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2007, 08:03:41 PM »
OK let's pray for those killed and their families. Let us also pray that this never happens again.


                                    Amen Bobby, Amen!
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Offline my78k

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2007, 08:22:51 PM »
Well put Heffay...when it comes to the law there is no real definitive answer as there is always interpretation...and don't even get me started on the civil implications and somebody being sued for millions for a wrongful death suit for taking out this nutjob...

As to the families and all those directly affected all we can do is pray (if that's what you do) or hope that they find the strength to get though this...as a father of 2 girls I can't even bring myself to think about what they must be going through!

As for the arguements surrounding whether guns on campus would have helped...who the helll knows! Officers who spend years training for facing an armed gunman don't always make the right call as to whether or not they should shoot and when they do they don't always hit their mark due to the obvious stress of the situation. There is a reason they try to negotiate first and shoot second...it is quite easy to make a situation worse and escalate it with the presence of additional guns. Obviously I am not claiming that this could be much worse I am merely saying that we are playing Monday morning quarter back here...NONE of us know what could have prevented this tragedy nor do we know how much worse or better it would have been...

Dennis

Offline medic09

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2007, 10:04:47 PM »
OK let's pray for those killed and their families. Let us also pray that this never happens again.

Amen.

As always, there were some acts of courage.  I hope we'll hear about those is well.
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Offline seaweb11

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2007, 10:16:23 PM »
What part of "walk in to a store and buy a gun with no wait period" makes any sense?
No background check
No proof of training
No clue.......  F*^CK you have to go through a lot of hoops just to ride a motorcycle on the road!!!!!!!!!!

Is it just me as a Canadian?  Seriously........and every one still seems surprised that it keeps happening?

My heart goes out to those effected "the entire world".

Yes people get killed in Canada by guns as well, just not new ones when we are pissed at something.

I wouldn't even know where to go to buy a gun?


Offline Rsnip988

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2007, 11:50:31 PM »
Not true here Richard, just this year VT banned guns from Campus.

oh I see, here in NC know they have been banned on all schools for at least 10 years now that i can remember.....

as a moderator watching the discussion... let's please stay away from the "he would be charged for this" type of discussion... there is NO way for any of us to predetermine what jury members, prosecutors, attorneys, judges, etc. might or might not do in a court of law.

good point Heff, all the speculation is pointless, I'm just tired of the blame game in the media..

What part of "walk in to a store and buy a gun with no wait period" makes any sense?
No background check
No proof of training
No clue.......  F*^CK you have to go through a lot of hoops just to ride a motorcycle on the road!!!!!!!!!!

Is it just me as a Canadian?  Seriously........and every one still seems surprised that it keeps happening?

My heart goes out to those effected "the entire world".

Yes people get killed in Canada by guns as well, just not new ones when we are pissed at something.

I wouldn't even know where to go to buy a gun?

Actually I think most states (if not all) have a mandantory 5 day waiting time, there is a criminal background check preformed, although i dont think you have to have any training to buy one....however if you buy a gun on the street or from a friend theres no way to stop it one way or another

(at least i know these are true in NC because i have a CC permit and guns in NC)

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2007, 03:47:10 AM »
Seaweb, the shooter had a background check and the whole nine yards.
You can not buy a gun in VA from a Licensed gun dealer without a background check.
The check ties into the FBI data base.

Offline xtalon

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2007, 05:58:06 AM »
Seaweb, the shooter had a background check and the whole nine yards.
You can not buy a gun in VA from a Licensed gun dealer without a background check.
The check ties into the FBI data base.

Virginia has the ability to do an instant background check (computer).  Other states take longer mainly because they don't have the ability and it's a more manual process.

I'm defiiniely not a gun control advocate, but Seaweb makes a good point that you are required to study, take a test, etc to  operate a motor vehicle, but anyone with a clean history can buy a gun.  What if you had to take a class and a test?  Maybe in this case, this psycho's personality would have become more apparant.  Anyone listen to his ex-roomates describing him?

It's coming out now that he stalked several women and that the police got involved.  It didn't sound like he was charged in anything, but you would think something like this would red flag a background check?

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2007, 06:46:29 AM »
Well if he is not charged, there is not report made, thus nothing in a background check would show up.
Also, I know there is a waiting period for handguns but I didnt think there was for rifles. But then that is probably done on a "per state" basis.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2007, 11:49:36 AM »
Here is one of the heroes of that day. From the LA Times:

If you were lucky enough to have a choice, there were only two ways to go Monday morning on the campus of Virginia Tech: away from danger or toward it. Seventy-six-year-old engineering professor Liviu Librescu chose the second option, saved a classroom full of students and became a hero — at the cost of his life.

As a child, he had survived the Holocaust. As an adult, he had survived persecution for defying Romania's brutal Communist regime during the Cold War. With their children grown, he and his wife, Marlena, had spent a quiet two decades on a peaceful university campus in rural Virginia.

But Monday, trouble found him once more. With bursts of gunfire rattling through the second floor of Norris Hall, Librescu closed his classroom door, giving his students time to escape through the windows, recalled senior Caroline Merrey of Baltimore, the third student to jump.

"He saved my life," Merrey said.

As they fled, Librescu held the door shut with his body while the gunman, 23-year-old Tech senior Seung-hui Cho, tried to force his way inside.

Moments after the last student leapt to safety, Cho apparently forced the door open and shot Librescu to death.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline nomadwarmachine

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2007, 11:54:26 AM »
Can we please leave a few days for the families to mourn before diving for each other's throats over gun politics?  I may be alone, here, but I think it's really unneccessary.  There will be plenty of time for that in the future.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2007, 12:15:09 PM »
Can we please leave a few days for the families to mourn before diving for each other's throats over gun politics?  I may be alone, here, but I think it's really unneccessary.  There will be plenty of time for that in the future.

100% agreed, but, unfortunately, it seems that just about any topic on the open forum is subject to devolving into a gun debate.  Even ones that start off having nothing to do with guns. 

Offline my78k

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2007, 12:31:43 PM »
Gordon....not sure how you can say that a topic title "Virgina Tech Shooting" has nothing to do with guns....

As for the debate etc. it is quite common and in my mind acceptable to have this debate even quite closely after such an occurance. Afterall we are all trying to wrap our heads around something that we can't quite fathom. I mean I can't imagine what would have drove this guy to it, what the families are feeling nor what could have prevented it. Any discussion that may help from preventing anything even remotely close to this happening again in the future is certainly worthwhile.  It is through this type of discussion that I get a glimpse of other people's thoughts and perspectives which when combined with my own take on a situation help me to better form an understanding of what went on and why.

As someone once said if we do not understand our past we are doomed to repeat it.

Dennis

Offline Gordon

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2007, 12:33:14 PM »
Gordon....not sure how you can say that a topic title "Virgina Tech Shooting" has nothing to do with guns....


Never said that.

Offline my78k

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2007, 12:37:58 PM »
[100% agreed, but, unfortunately, it seems that just about any topic on the open forum is subject to devolving into a gun debate.  Even ones that start off having nothing to do with guns
Quote

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood? If so I appologize...

Dennis

Offline heffay

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Re: Virginia Tech Shooting
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2007, 03:33:58 PM »
dennis, i think you did misunderstand what gordon was saying but, thanks to you, my perspective suddenly shifted once i read your main paragraph. 

i did want to stay off the subject for the customary (how long was that period again?)... but, felt compelled to also discuss w/ you guys, my classmates, my girlfriend and others, the whys and why nots that made this happen.  gun control is just another factor in the equation that should not, in my opinion, be factored out. 

can we not talk about it for a week... sure!

anyone else up for the "sohc4 silent vigil"... for the continuing week (until monday the 23rd) let us only remember the victims and their families.  by silent vigil i mean no discussion of gun control, blame, etc... as this is a discussion forum, true silence is out of the question but, we can surely only discuss, or remember, the tragedy.
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