Topic: Virginia Tech Shooting (WARNING: EMOTIONAL CONTENT)

[BobbyR]

dennis, i think you did misunderstand what gordon was saying but, thanks to you, my perspective suddenly shifted once i read your main paragraph. 

i did want to stay off the subject for the customary (how long was that period again?)... but, felt compelled to also discuss w/ you guys, my classmates, my girlfriend and others, the whys and why nots that made this happen.  gun control is just another factor in the equation that should not, in my opinion, be factored out. 

can we not talk about it for a week... sure!

anyone else up for the "sohc4 silent vigil"... for the continuing week (until monday the 23rd) let us only remember the victims and their families.  by silent vigil i mean no discussion of gun control, blame, etc... as this is a discussion forum, true silence is out of the question but, we can surely only discuss, or remember, the tragedy.

I agree Heff. We can argue 2nd Amendment anytime. This is a very special and solemn time.

[bill440cars]

             Hef,  I'm with ya on this.   When will the time start.   After a while, a subject can get like a TV show- RERUNS!! There's only so much that can be said before there's repeating. And what does that accomplish? All those that this has affected, needs healing time and that is going to vary for them. So sad!! I only pray that no one else has to go through something like this.



                                                     Bill

[my78k]

Consider it done...I sincerely appologize if my posts offended anyone... I assure you that it was in no way my intention. I just deal with these types of things  different than some others.

As stated above to anyone affected by this horrific event please know that my thoughts are with you at this time.

Dennis

[BobbyR]

Says it all:

[nomadwarmachine]

I never cease to be impressed by this community.  I have to confess that I was half-expecting to be flamed by people on both sides of the gun control issue, but instead the board decides to hold a vigil in honor of the families.  Hear, hear.

I completely agree that this horrible event raises a number of important political questions, and that honest, principled arguments can be made on both sides.  How about we wait a full week to delve into those in the same respectful, considerate manner that the members of this board typically show to one another, and especially to those who differ on important matters?  I am an enormous believer in free and open speech, and I'm not suggesting that we should censor ourselves, just voluntarily take a week to let our feelings work their way through our thoughts, to honor the families' loss and the enormous magnitude of this tragedy. 

I propose leaving off this debate out of respect for the many victims and families until April 23rd

[bill440cars]

          We just saw on the Fox network & MSNBC that CHO sent his "manifesto" and videos to MSNBC and from what we saw on that and also interviews from other kids who were in college and high school with him, saw him as he really was and the fact that a professor told the college that, if you don't get him out of my class, I'm resigning! Not meaning to dredge this back up but, what were they thinking?
The more we find out about him, the more you have to wonder why this behavior didn't send out signals?
                                                             Later on, Bill 

      I will also cease anything else on this except to once again express my sadness to all those that this has affected and in hopes that no one will have to endure a tragedy such as this. 

[nomadwarmachine]

This breaks my heart:



For our non-Virginian readers, the Virginia Tech mascot is the "Hokie" or fighting turkey.  This cartoon is of the other Virginia state mascots together with VT's.  I can't stand it.  This is all so senseless and sad. 

[bill440cars]

This breaks my heart:



For our non-Virginian readers, the Virginia Tech mascot is the "Hokie" or fighting turkey.  This cartoon is of the other Virginia state mascots together with VT's.  I can't stand it.  This is all so senseless and sad. 

             AMEN!!     In Arkansas, Our Flags Are At Half Mast, Our Hats Are Off And Our Hearts Go Out To All Who Have Been Affected By This Senseless Act!

[my78k]

To any of you who may be interested in sharing your thoughts or condolences...

http://rosa.hosting.vt.edu/index.php/memorial/ which is a link off of the main VT website: http://www.vt.edu/

Dennis

[DarkRider]

After reading through this entire topic i felt i needed to say a couple things.....

One:  im in for the silent virgil for the victims.

Second....Rant mode started...initiating rant now......(be forwarned)

Now this is one thing that sticks in my mind each time with tragic events like this. First it was Columbine...then Tabor...if i recall right a couple schools after that just cannot recall names right now. Now VT. Each time the body counts rise...almost as if these psychos are trying to get the most impressive kill score before getting taken out. As the local radio station said it best...The more the news reports on things like this the more likely things like this will keep occuring. Each event had its media showcase after the fact and kept reporting about it for a long time after...even occasionally bringing up reference to previous events when a new one occurs. Each and every time it all leads to the same thing in the end....the shooter always being portrayed as a loner or someone who was bulliied..as well as the simple fact they all went out in a blaze of glory. As someone who had a very close brush with a simular event in my own highschool things like this seriously get to me. In my situation the wouldbe shooters got careless and blabed about it at the wrong time..they were caught before things even got that far. (this occured about two weeks after Tabor). No matter how many laws we make concerning guns nutcases are still gonna get ahold of them somewhere. Whats next to outlaw as weapons? Knives? Axes? perhaps RC aircraft?.....Point being even if all the guns on this earth were destroyed somehow some crazy is going to find a way to cause a masscare.......What we all need to do...and i mean all...as people we need to find a way to control the person themselves...as has been pointed out somehow this kid got past all the controls in place to prevent people like him from getting a gun. Several mentions of his behavior before the fact have been made as well. Why this kid wasnt seriously blackballed when it come to his background checks is beyond me. Perhaps law makers should really think about what they are trying to prevent with their new laws...

Rant off....

[Terry in Australia]

Sorry to hear about this tragedy guys, I've always thought that people obsessed with guns like this little turd was, are the last who should be allowed to own one, but the US constitution protects their "rights", and the "rights" of the #$%*s who sell them guns.

Unless your government scraps this unnecessary ancient "right", there will be many more tragedies just like this one or worse, already there are more little turds out there in cyber-space who are hailing this gutless slug as some kind of anti-hero.

If the US government won't ban unnecessary private  gun ownership, then alternatively, maybe they could make bullet proof vests mandatory? Cheers, Terry.  

[scunny]

can't argue with that Terry, the only problem becomes the ones who shouldn't have the guns don't follow the rules and get them anyway, and poor john doe has to go thru a huge amount of paper work and crap to get his pea shooter that he or she may fire at a deer, pig, rabbit or can of baked beans

[bill440cars]

can't argue with that Terry, the only problem becomes the ones who shouldn't have the guns don't follow the rules and get them anyway, and poor john doe has to go thru a huge amount of paper work and crap to get his pea shooter that he or she may fire at a deer, pig, rabbit or can of baked beans

      So true. In this situation, the shooter was a student with a definite problem that nobody addressed.
In this day and time. Folks really need to take notice of the other person (could have just as easily been a woman). And I don't mean a vigilante type thing either. So hard to imagine that one day all those people were there doing their thing and suddenly, they're dead! Just so hard to imagine!

                                                       Bill   

[eldar]

Well you see terry, we need our guns. See you might be able to trust your govt. Well we really cant trust ours right now. You might say a rifle does little against a missile but it is still better than nothing.

[ofreen]

can't argue with that Terry,

Well I can, but I won't.  I agree with nomadwarmachine, so I'll desist.

[xtalon]

I think Erin Sheehan makes an excellent point that should be re-enforced:

"I don't think he was a man at all, if he hadn't been holding that gun".

She goes on to refer to him as weak and a 'frail little boy'.  I think everyone including the news should drive this point home so others don't try to copycat this tragedy thinking they can do something similar and make something of their pathetic lives like this guy thought he was doing.

--xTalon

[edbikerii]

Well you see terry, we need our guns. See you might be able to trust your govt. Well we really cant trust ours right now. You might say a rifle does little against a missile but it is still better than nothing.

Hey, now we're starting to remember why documents like the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, Magna Carta, etc. exist.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely".

That is no more appropriate "right now" than at any other time in history.

[Terry in Australia]

Rubbish. Civilians need guns like I need hamburgers. I'm still waiting for the old "when they outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns" line.

The fact is that random killings like this are committed by otherwise law abiding citizens, not Mafia hit-men, and everyone here on this site with a fascination for guns is just as capable of committing the same atrocity as that gutless little peanut.

Take away the guns, and you take away the threat. You don't trust your government? Try getting off your ass and voting guys, that's what we do everywhere else! (and we still don't trust them, but don't see a need to arm ourselves against them) Cheers, Terry. 

[eldar]

Well terry, I DID vote. Guess what, Bush still squeaked into office like he did the first time. But then I do not understand aussie culture since I dont live there. But then, you do not live here either and so you would not understand out culture.  But then I guess all those statistics that show how armed robbery skyrocketed in England and Australia are false?

[andy750]

Here you go Eldar....

"Assault and Robbery

Those who claim that Australia suffered a "crime wave" as a result of new gun laws often cite as evidence unrelated figures for common assault or sexual assault (no weapon) and armed robbery (any weapon). In fact less than one in five Australian armed robberies involve a firearm.

"Although armed robberies increased by nearly 20%, the number of armed robberies involving a firearm decreased to a six-year low."

-- Recorded Crime, Australia, 1998. Australian Bureau of Statistics, Jun 1999 "

More info can be found here: - http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/gunaus.htm

And here is an interesting article about misrepresentation  of the facts -UK and Australia are mentioned:

http://timlambert.org/2005/12/cherrypicking-3/

cheers
Andy

[ofreen]

Edit:  Post removed and taken offline.

[edbikerii]

Rubbish. Civilians need guns like I need hamburgers. I'm still waiting for the old "when they outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns" line.

The fact is that random killings like this are committed by otherwise law abiding citizens, not Mafia hit-men, and everyone here on this site with a fascination for guns is just as capable of committing the same atrocity as that gutless little peanut.

Take away the guns, and you take away the threat. You don't trust your government? Try getting off your ass and voting guys, that's what we do everywhere else! (and we still don't trust them, but don't see a need to arm ourselves against them) Cheers, Terry. 

First of all, how could you live without hamburgers?

Second, no, taking away guns doesn't take away the threat.  Sickos will just find more innovative ways of killing people like filling up vans with fertilizer bombs, or mailing out packages full of anthrax, or hijacking airplanes using boxcutters, or whatever.

And most importantly of all, you trust your elected officials that blindly?  Have you ever read the Federalist Papers?  Our (American) founding fathers spent a whole lot of time and energy considering how a majority in a democratic society can unfairly oppress minority viewpoints.  Sorry, but even democracy isn't 100% perfect for everyone, unless you happen to fit in perfectly with the mainstream, especially on important issues like freedom to practice your religion, etc.

[BobbyR]

Fellas I though the agreement was we were not talking guns for 2 weeks and then of course, let the games begin.

[eldar]

Well maybe it went up, maybe it didnt. Maybe it really does not matter since it is just a tool. I dont believe that killing started when guns first became available. Maybe I am wrong? Maybe no one was actually ever killed when they were shot with arrows? Maybe Cain never really slew Abel? I mean, he didnt have a gun so he couldnt have done it right?

[TwoTired]

Fellas I though the agreement was we were not talking guns for 2 weeks and then of course, let the games begin.

That only silences the reasonable and caring.  Carrion feeders will always swoop in to take advantage of the dead.