Topic: Filling up for first time - the advantages of ethanol free gasoline?

[dave500]

Risk vs Reward

It looks like using ethanol blended gasoline in a Vintage Honda comes with a large number of additional risks.  The only reward I can see is it is better for the environment but not better for the bike

it aint better for any environment,think of all the farm land dedicated to growing plants to ferment into alcohol using diesel tractors or what ever not producing food on the same acreage?its a crock.

[newday777]

Risk vs Reward

It looks like using ethanol blended gasoline in a Vintage Honda comes with a large number of additional risks.  The only reward I can see is it is better for the environment but not better for the bike

it aint better for any environment,think of all the farm land dedicated to growing plants to ferment into alcohol using diesel tractors or what ever not producing food on the same acreage?its a crock.

100%^^^

[Deltarider]

[...]
It looks like using ethanol blended gasoline in a Vintage Honda comes with a large number of additional risks. [...]

It looks like, it looks like... so far I have read nothing but the usual parroting and I wonder how you can come to that conclusion.
I haven't heard of any problems in my circle of CB owners so far. This much against my expectations, I must admit.
A warning in general: AI cannot think for itself. It's a language program; it collects ripe and green. So realise that AI harvests info from mechanics and noobs alike. Nobody knows and on the internet anyone can present himself as an expert. The recipe that always works, is: create a 'problem' and then present a 'solution'. Success is guaranteed.
I rely on the experts I know on a personal basis in the field like the mechanics I have known and institutions like ANWB, ADAC and leading German automotive engineers.
Here's a simple test anyone can do: submerge a still good genuine Honda O-ring in a cup with E10 gas and tell us what your findings are after a month or longer. I know the rubber used in old vintage (50s) cars may not like it, but the rubbers used in our bikes are of another generation. I have used all kinds of gas in the 46 years that I have owned my bike. The only rubbers I have renewed were the tiny O-rings around the main jets and the floatbowl gaskets. Mainly because I had mishandled them, not because they were 'eaten'. I have renewed the 4 seals between the manifolds and the head, because everybody says so, but... the old ones were not leaking and to my surprise were not brittle at all.
Here's a similar thing. Unnumerous times have I read here the 'advice' to renew the four rubber boots between carbs and head because they would crack and leak. Yes, possibly. But I decided to do the test. After 49 years and 140.000km I have taken them off last spring. All 4 were sound, no leaks whatsoever, not even a beginning of a crack. I noticed they are very robust, quite thick. For neutrality I should add that I park my bike in a garage. On the other hand: my bike has been in the extreme violet light and temperatures when I spent monthslong vacations in Greece and Spain. I don't say these parts cannot be a problem, but not necessarily, just because someone in the internet says so.
My advice: use your common sense and diagnose first. If you don't and just replace no matter what, you cannot tell it was needed or not.

[bryanj]

E10 is fine in a car being used frequently, NOT in a motorcycle, especially carburettored one, used infrequently

[Ozzybud]

When they first introduced ethanol infused gas in  Washington state 20 years ago I was using it in my classic cars as I was younger and less informed about the evils of Ethanol.
My 1969 mach1 was stored over the winter in my heated shop. with a quarter tank of gas. In the spring it would not start.. I ended up draining the tank. The fuel in there looked like MILK.  flush the fuel system and it fired right up.
This made me a believer and nothing will convince me to use that crap again.
Friends don't let friends us Ethanol infused gas on their classic bikes,cars and lawn equipment!

[HondaMan]

When they first introduced ethanol infused gas in  Washington state 20 years ago I was using it in my classic cars as I was younger and less informed about the evils of Ethanol.
My 1969 mach1 was stored over the winter in my heated shop. with a quarter tank of gas. In the spring it would not start.. I ended up draining the tank. The fuel in there looked like MILK.  flush the fuel system and it fired right up.
This made me a believer and nothing will convince me to use that crap again.
Friends don't let friends us Ethanol infused gas on their classic bikes,cars and lawn equipment!

This same thing happened in my infrequently-used (nowadays) motorhome. It had 5 gallons of 10% ethanol-laced Regular left in it for 2 years when my wife had several surgeries, so we weren't camping out anywhere for 3 years. Despite it being a Dodge 360 (which is reputed to run on anything that will burn), it wouldn't start. I had to drain the (fortunately plastic) fuel tank and lines, replaced all the rubber hose lines, and refilled with another 5 gallons of the same fuel, ran it for a while to wet things up. Then I added 1/2 quart of 30w oil to it, ran it again until a faint smoke from the pipe told me it was in the carb, and shut it off.

That was in 2008. Every year since, I charge up the battery and start it to run it until warmed up, still on that same 5 gallons of 10% ethanol-laced Regular. So, that is (currently) 18 years this month with that same fuel: the engine slightly smokes because of how much oil is in that fuel, but it is preserving it well.

My brother-in-law was in the Marines, in charge of their motor pool, in tropical island duty for his 4 years during the 1990s when this ethanol thing started. The military does exactly what I am doing: it added (used) motor oil to the gas, in the tanks of all of the motor pool cars, as at that time they were exempt from the emissions nonsense and the fuel was going bad in a couple of months on hundreds of stored vehicles when using this crap. That's where I first heard of it.

HU-wah!

[Little_Phil]

Not going to get into the ethanol discussion.
What I will say that AI is pretty thick at the moment and does not seem able to distinguish between fact and fiction. If there is enough comment out there it often goes with that.
Of course Google AI refers health problems to youtube if you choose "video" and some info via "all" also comes from there.
Also the additive MBTE? used in the 80s/90s seems to have destroyed many carbs of US bikes that were imported to the UK.

[MRieck]

E10 is fine in a car being used frequently, NOT in a motorcycle, especially carburettored one, used infrequently

I have to agree as my CB and FJ tend to sit. I was having to rebuild the carbs if they sat for 4 to 6 weeks. The orings turn white and stiff. The now unavailable Yamaha carb cleaner would revitalize the rubber gaskets and rings but it got expensive ( eventually had to replace the FCR float bowl gaskets etc) and a real PITA. I even had to have the Hayabusa injectors cleaned as the bike sat at one point and the very fine nylon screens for the injectors clogged up and crap built up in the injectors. We noticed a 5 RWHP loss on the dyno and couldn't figure it out. Spoke to a fella in the know and he diagnosed it correctly. After cleaning and removing the screens it was back to normal. As a side note....the Dyna ARC system adds exactly 2 RWHP.🤣

[Don R]

 I noticed my Q16 race fuel has MTBE. It lives in an aluminum tank and carb, even if I pump it out, there is still some left behind. So far, I am seeing less corrosion than I saw when we got methanol tainted race gas.

[kyle750]

Many thanks for all the replies, comments, and sharing of individual experiences.  When I first looked into Ethanol blended fuels I was totally shocked at what I learned.  Even under normal circumstances water vapor and corrosion inside a steel metal gas tank is already an almost universal problem with any gasoline. But the physical properties of ethanol drives even more water into the tank. And if phase separation occurs another highly corrosive element is added to the bottom of a gas tank.

Vintage Hondas are old machines and were designed to run on pure gasoline.  The carbs were tuned at the Honda Factory to run on pure gasoline.  The fuel lines and rubber components were manufactured to be compatible with pure gasoline.  If the choice is available between pure gasoline and ethanol blended fuel I can't understand why anyone would choose ethanol (unless they are simply a cheap charlie). 

[kyle750]

I am getting ready to fill the CB750 with Caltex Techron Gold 95 octane pure gasoline (0% ethanol)

According to Caltex: Techron Gold 95 is a premium fuel that contains a specialized, proprietary additive package designed to clean and protect engine components.

Here is a breakdown of the components and additives in Caltex Techron Gold 95:

Polyetheramines (PEA): The main detergent ingredient that breaks down and cleans deposits on intake and reduces harmful combustion chamber deposits. PEA also improves cold starts and provides corrosion resistance.

Clean & Glide™ Technology (Friction Modifiers): Components designed to coat and protect metal surfaces. Laboratory tests show this technology reduces wear by up to 38% and friction by up to 41% compared to previous formulations.

Deposit Control Additives: These help prevent the buildup of new, grimy deposits on vital engine parts, keeping the engine running efficiently.

Fuel Stabilizers/Carriers: The additive package often includes carrier oil and solvents (such as light aromatic naphtha) to ensure the detergents reach the combustion chamber.

Are the Caltex fuel components and additives good, bad, or marketing BS???

Late Edit:  If given the choice between Subway or Thai Food I can't understand why anyone would choose Subway

[PeWe]

Seems to be a good gasoline. 95 RON, right?
I intend to give my K6 additive, Redline Si-1 that has Polyetheramines (PEA).
To clean the piston, chambers, valves etc.
It has had a period of too rich AFR.
It used other additives that cleaned the carbs that really helped. I could reduce pilot jet after cleaning with one tank mixed with additive.

The gasoline brand I have used for years had issues.
I changed brand last year. Maybe only St1 brand that was bad.
Pilot circuit did not work due to dirt in the gasoline. The gasoline was bad in need of rich mix to make the engine to run evenly.

I will however continue with additives each year, one or 2 rides/year.
Redline for the carbon. I gave other that worked fine for carbs.

[jlh3rd]

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[willbird]

Risk vs Reward

It looks like using ethanol blended gasoline in a Vintage Honda comes with a large number of additional risks.  The only reward I can see is it is better for the environment but not better for the bike

it aint better for any environment,think of all the farm land dedicated to growing plants to ferment into alcohol using diesel tractors or what ever not producing food on the same acreage?its a crock.

The leftovers from the still are used as animal feed too so there is more to the equation than just the ethyl yield.

Bill

[Deltarider]

I have had similar results as Pewe posted. The first time I had used a fuel system cleaner, the engine ran much better. On the other hand... a ride of over half an hour @ > 130km/h can also do miracles, especially for the CB500. The engine loves it. When opened up, most CB Fours show considerable carbon built up.

[PeWe]

I had issues with the pilot circuit. Idle - legal speeds.
The company (St1) that bought Shells stations 2010 gradually degraded the fuel.
The final proof was my car with turbo and modified program (chipped).
It got its power back on better fuel, still 98 RON.
My wife noticed it too. Careful with the  right foot. The flywheel does not like too much throttle (torque) too early on gear 3-6.
Wait until 3400rpm for the lead foot.

Another reason for a new dyno run with my K6. Maybe a few more closer to 110whp or just a better curve to the usual 105-107+.

Anyway. Add fuel additive once or twice a year will my bikes and car get.

[willbird]

I used to have a semi local BP that sold E0 87 octane but they closed when Circle K expanded from 4 pumps to about 20 pumps. I wish a smaller local station would do group buys on E0 87 octane :-).

The only E0 avail to me is maybe 91 octane coming from a hose shared with E10 grades. That is the only gas I put into gas cans and I fill the CB750K2 from those gas cans, and all my outdoor power equipment too.

Bill