Topic: Restoration of a 350 four update: Back from the Dead

[hoodellyhoo]

Sorry folks for the lack of updating. There have been some developments  with the bike.

Since my last update,  I removed the carbs. They came off far easier than I expected. Hopefully they go back on just as easy.





I decided to solve my missing key dilemma buy buying a new 2 new keys off ebay. They work great. I bought them from fklipple and the service was good. I even got a thank you note with the keys.



Today I decided to begin disassembling the carbs. I only did the first carb just to get a feel for it. That and it took longer than I expected.



I made sure to take plenty of pictures as I went along.



One down, three to go.



Everything got bagged and organized.



I suppose the next step will be to finish disassembly and then start cleaning. I bought some simple green for that since that seems to be the most successful method on this forum. I will also be buying one of those special pliers so I can start doing a master cylinder rebuild. So basically O have plenty to keep my busy for a while

[hoodellyhoo]

The motorcycle gods have smiled on me today!!!!

     After working 6 hours of overtime, I went home and spent the next 5 hours working on the bike. I dunno why but today was a day of many good discoveries. I started off by finishing disassembling the rest of the carbs. I then figured I'd fiddle with my cam chain arm and see what I could do. After trying a few things, I figured I'd go for broke and put the chain tensioner back in the bike and see what happens. I  loosened the lock nut and pushed on the tensioner. It moved, but I was certain that it was just the tensioner bending and not the arm moving. Just to make sure, I thought I'd try pushing on the arm with a screwdriver. And wouldn't you know it, I pushed and the tensioner moved up. So I pushed on the tensioner and the screwdriver moved back at me. In other words, MY CAM CHAIN ARM ISN'T FROZEN!!!You have no idea how happy I was to discover this!!!

     After that, I had some daylight left so I thought I would tinker with the electrics and start testing random connections to see if I could find the electrical gremlin that put this bike away for so many years. I checked all the connections for the voltage regulator, alternator, rectifier, and ignition switch. All connections checked out just fine. Then I opened up the birds nest to test some of the switches. Sure enough, the kill switch wasn't working. I don't know if this is the entire problem, but it's a problem none the less and it will soon be fixed! I tried to do this but I stripped out the screw to get at the contact points for the switch really bad. Hopefully I can find a solution for that.

     All in all, it was a great day for working on the bike, nevermind the fact that it was 90 degrees with high humidity. Tomorrow I think I'll get to cleaning the carbs, (hopefully) fix the kill switch, and buy myself a battery so I can see it that's the extent of my electrical problems.I'm getting so antsy to get this bike running it's ridiculous!

Some pics of today's labors:



It moved!!!!


So close, and yet, so far.

[keiths]

Great find!

[loonymoon]

Great job!

I'm a complete novice with engines... I've had neither the expertise or the time to do anything like that to my cb350F, it will probably need a stripdown soon though, there are a few niggly things that maybe should be looked at.

Stupid question perhaps but was it easy to get the head off while still in the frame? I thought you'd have to take the engine out of the frame to do the kind of work you're doing but obviously not (see I told you I'm a novice - I wouldn't dream of attempting such a thing!).

Great photos, very detailed and they should help a lot of people doing similar work.

Well done and keep us posted!!

[hoodellyhoo]

Great find!

Thank You!

Great job!

I'm a complete novice with engines... I've had neither the expertise or the time to do anything like that to my cb350F, it will probably need a stripdown soon though, there are a few niggly things that maybe should be looked at.

Stupid question perhaps but was it easy to get the head off while still in the frame? I thought you'd have to take the engine out of the frame to do the kind of work you're doing but obviously not (see I told you I'm a novice - I wouldn't dream of attempting such a thing!).

Great photos, very detailed and they should help a lot of people doing similar work.

Well done and keep us posted!!

First and formost, I'm a complete novice as well. I took a small engines class during my senior year of high school, but that is the extent of my motor-working abilities. Unfortunately a flathead Briggs motor is slightly different than a Honda sohc4. It was only after I discovered this website that I thought I could do such work. Seeing the threads where many people with no prior experience did major engine work gave me the confidence. So, I studied the pictures in the Honda manual I downloaded so I knew how my motor worked and what to expect once inside. So far I haven't run into anything that I wouldn't feel confident to fix. That is all due to the amazing resources on this site.

One more thing, I'm assuming when you say "head", you mean the valve cover. (I'm not at a point where I feel like taking the head off yet anyway). So to answer your question (and there's no such thing as a stupid question!), yes there's room to take the valve cover off with the engine still in the frame. It was easy enough for me, just had to heat the breather cover with a hair dryer to get it to come off. In fact,  by the looks of it it seems like) you would have enough room to take the valve cover, head, and cylinder bores all out with the engine still in. Maybe not the cylinders (too tall?), but it would certainly lighten the load if I ever decide to take the engine out and do a complete redo.

and as with Keith, thank you for the complements.

[loonymoon]

See told you I was a novice - yes  I mean valve cover...

I hope you can get some video when you get her running again I'm sure she'll sound sweeeeet!!

[hoodellyhoo]

I got a new digital camera for my birthday so there will DEFFINITELY be video when all is said and done. I always like seeing other people's pictures and video's on this site so that's why I try to post a lot.

BTW: just got back from wrapping up the wires that my dad unearthed when he was looking for the electrical problem. Then I put the rectifier and voltage regulator back in. I doubt everything's installed like it should be, but it fits and you can't see anything sticking out with the sidecover on. I might go get a battery yet tonight. Too bad I can't just put it in and fire the old girl up  . Oh well, good things come to those who wait.

[hoodellyhoo]

Well Yesterday was spent tackling the great carb cleaning and rebuild. I started at about 10:30am and got done around 2am. I used methods that I got from this board.

 Most everything got a good soaking in simple green. I used rags to help keep track of the tiny bits. This stuff worked great! Parts such as my choke linkage was full of grime and after soaking, came out shiny as new! The carb bodies look awesome now.



After soaking in simple green, they were cleaned in soapy water and left to air dry.





I figured that as long as this stuff was cleaning up my gunky carbs so well, I would try it on my petcock as well since it too is getting rebuilt.



After the parts were dry, I blew out the passages with compressed air. Then I replaced all orings with the ones from my Keyster carb kits. I was going to use the entire kits, but after reading the horror stories about them on this forum I decided it would be better just to reuse the Honda parts and replace the orings. I also bought new rings for the fuel T's and the drain plugs. Assembly went fine. Organization is the key. All of the pictures I took before DEFFINITELY came in handy for this.  And around 2am CST after some hard work and new fuel line I ended up with this:



And if it weren't for the slightly tarnished tops and bowls, they would look brand spanking new. I would polish them, but at this point I'm more concerned with getting the bike going than making it look good.

Today there will be further reassembly of the bike. If I work fast enough and all goes well, it might just run today for the first time.

[keiths]

Nice job on those carbs. I got to get me some simply green. Good luck getting it going.

[cben750f0]

Xcelent job mate... as u say, keepin things in order and documenting stuff as you pull it apart always helps....  good ob indeed..

peace

[Loudpipe]

The only one I've sen for sale was on Ebay Express and was about 55-60 bucks I think. Maybe there's something cheaper?

Don't know if you've bought a new chain yet or not, but let me give you 3 pieces of advice from experience about bike chains:
1) Don't buy a cheap chain.
2) Don't wait until the last possibly time to replace the chain.
3) Don't buy a cheap chain.

Chains snapping and locking up the rear wheel are not fun at any speed. Believe me.

Your bike looks really good though.  I need to rebuild my carbs as well...nothing sticking, but number 4 is leaking gas pretty nicely until the float runs dry.  Do you have a manual to help you with the carbs, or did you just take lots of pictures and pull them apart?

[putnaja1]

I've never heard of using simple green to clean carbs!  Anyone know how it compares to the old school method of "The Dip" (a can half full of carb cleaner with a metal basket for dipping)??

If it works just as well, it would sure be nice to use simple green, which I'm no chemist but it's got to be less toxic than the dip can juice!

[hoodellyhoo]

First things first, the bike didn't run yesterday. I didn't have time to rig up a temporary fuel source and I was getting a weak spark. Maybe Monday. Either way I got a lot done yesterday. Everything is put back together. Valves are adjusted, new tappet cover orings.I know I should have spent some time polishing things like the rocker cover, but I just want to get this thing going.

Even though I didn't have time to get it running, I did have time to get the battery hooked up and check the electrics. I used a piece of wire to bypass my electrical problem. Luckily, that must have been the sole electrical problem because my fuse didn't blow during the 15 or so minutes that the switch was turned on. The horn and starter works, along with my neutral and oil lights. The oils light even goes off when I push the starter, that thats good. It was another good day of working on the bike. I only took one picture and some really crappy video, but I can't post it cause I'm on someone else's computer.

Nice job on those carbs. I got to get me some simply green. Good luck getting it going.

Xcelent job mate... as u say, keepin things in order and documenting stuff as you pull it apart always helps.... good ob indeed..

peace

Thank you very much guys!

The only one I've sen for sale was on Ebay Express and was about 55-60 bucks I think. Maybe there's something cheaper?

Don't know if you've bought a new chain yet or not, but let me give you 3 pieces of advice from experience about bike chains:
1) Don't buy a cheap chain.
2) Don't wait until the last possibly time to replace the chain.
3) Don't buy a cheap chain.

Chains snapping and locking up the rear wheel are not fun at any speed. Believe me.

Your bike looks really good though. I need to rebuild my carbs as well...nothing sticking, but number 4 is leaking gas pretty nicely until the float runs dry. Do you have a manual to help you with the carbs, or did you just take lots of pictures and pull them apart?

Thank you very much for the advice. No, I haven't bought a chain yet. One issue I've been having is that it seems to be the general consensus on this board that you have to replace your sprockets with your chain, otherwise the chain wears too fast. I'm not to sure where to get sprockets for my bike for a good price. The ones on ebay seem a little high to me.

As far as what I used for doing my carbs, I just followed the disassembly instructions from my Honda manual and still took lots of pictures.

I've never heard of using simple green to clean carbs! Anyone know how it compares to the old school method of "The Dip" (a can half full of carb cleaner with a metal basket for dipping)??

If it works just as well, it would sure be nice to use simple green, which I'm no chemist but it's got to be less toxic than the dip can juice!

From my experience, I would reccomend Simple Green. It worked good for me, as you can see the crud that was left in that bucket. I was also surprised at what it did for things like the return spring. It shined right up. I did have some really stubborn crud in the gasket recess on my float bowls that I had to scrape out with toothpicks, but I don't think any amount of soaking would've gotten it off. And as far as the toxicity of the stuff, the container says it's non toxic. I got some on me even though I wore rubber gloves and it didn't melt any hole through me.

[hoodellyhoo]

IT RAN TODAY!!!!!!!!

I came home from work and went right to work on the bike. I adjusted the points, timing, and rigged up a gas source. And dammit, IT RAN!!!! I'm so excited!!!!! I even had enough gas in the carbs to ride it the half a b;lock and back to the fire station where my dad works to show him. The cam chain rattled, it sputtered, the blinkers don't work, and I apparently didn't find the electrical problem....BUT IT RAN!!!!

There's a gazzilion things I could say right now but I have to time. so heres a video link so you too can see it run for the first time in about 6 or 7 years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFc7zFlrpbA

[keiths]

Congrats! 

[Marco83]

good job!! 

[doug_id]

Oh what a feeling!   

[dusterdude]

way to go,you truly are an inspiration.

[loonymoon]

Well done!! That must have been a satisfying feeling!!

I don't know about yours but mine seems quite fussy about the choke. Normally it starts pretty much first touch of the throttle but you have to have the choke full on for the first couple of seconds and then push it down to about half. If you leave the choke on full for too long it splutters and dies. If you turn it right off, it dies!!!

When I first got mine it had a very distinctive kind of "blim-blim-blim" kind of sound to it which was poor timing and the carbs being out of sync. Now it's pretty smooth. 

Next get a vid of you riding it!!!

[hoodellyhoo]

Shame on me for not updating this more over the summer. But now that the riding season is over and I have no obligations, I can properly update this thread. I guess the best way to do this is to just start from where I left off:

Cleaning the Gas Tank:

There was some surface rust in the tank which I felt needed to be addressed. The idea of messing with chemicals didn't appeal to me so thought it would be interesting to try the electrolysis approach as outlined in this thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=21623.0 My results were only ok and I blame that on myself. The anode I used (some bolt I bought at the hardware store) I believe was stainless steel. Also, the battery charger I used was only 4 amps. I only guessed on a proper salt-to water ratio. I think my biggest problem was that I didn't let it sit long enough. If I recall, I only let it run for an hour. This was because I had to work the next morning and I knew it would take a while to rinse and dry the tank and to clean up.

Anywas, after I let it run, there was evidence that it had worked because the rust on the highest parts was gone and because of this I figured it was clean. So I rinsed it out a good 3 times and dried with a blow dryer. Unfortunately this did cause some flash rusting. Also, after I was done with everything, I noticed that there was still rust in the "wells" of the tank that I did not notice before hand.

Seeing that I had just had the bike running and was more than anxious to ride it, I made the decision to just fill the tank with gas and use an inline fuel filter. I know this wasn't the smartest decision, but you have to cut me some slack. I had never wanted anything so bad as to just be able to hop on my bike and ride, tank rust be damned. And as you'll see, I haven't had any issues thus far. I WILL do some sort of proper job in the spring, but I'm still not sure how or what.

Here are some pics:

I plugged the petcock holes with small conical corks I found at the hardware store, there weren't any rubber ones that fit. They worked ok, but were hard to take out without breaking them off in the tank.



It was VERY hard for me to find a manual battery charger. Eventually my grandpa found one he bought some time in the 50's. A little scary, but it worked fine. I used rubber bands tied on my bolt to prevent grounding on the tank.



The bubbles meant it was working

[hoodellyhoo]

The oil seal on my shifter was leaking, so that got replaced. I tried removing the old seal using the screw method descibed here:http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=23739.0 but I could only get the screw to penatrate the rubber and not the metal disc behind the rubber. I tried to remoer the seal using the hole in the rubber and a needlenose pliers but found I would only tear the rubber and not extract the seal. Therefore, I tried a method my dad used the day before on his harley. Using an old, small flathead screwdriver, I CAREFULLY punctured a hole in the metal disk inside the seal. Obviously you have to be careful not to damage the case or shifter lever. This gave me enough of a hole to put my needlenose pliers into and pull the old seal out. Being the novice that I am, I didn't think to drain the oil out first and my moment of triumph was quickly repalced by panic as I had to find a receptical for the draining oil that wasn't my driveway.

After the old seal was out, I cleaned the surrounding area and shifter shaft as best I could with simple green (from the carb rebuild) and other degreasers I found. To place in the new seal, I used a rubber mallet and a 1 foot piece of (3/4"??) pvc pipe I bought for a few cents. P laced the seal over the shaft and carefully tapped it into place with the mallet and pipe placed over the shifter shaft. I guess I did alright because it hasn't leaked yet.

Pics:

The old, CAREFULLY punctured seal:



Oil leaking out after the seal was removed:



The cleaned shaft and surrounding area:



New seal in place:



The aftermath. Coolwhip containers are great for holding oil. Notice also the removed sproket and chain. That'll be the next update.

[hoodellyhoo]

As I stated previously in this thread, there was an electrical problem that led to this bike being stored for so many years. After much testing of connections, I was able to determine that there was a short in the kill switch. I had tried to solve this problem once before, but was stopped by a stripped screw. The one directly underneath my thumb.


I had tried to get a dremel tool in there to make a cut so that I could use a flathead screwdriver to get it out, but was again unsuccessful in doing this. There simply wasn't enough space to fit in the dremel.

Eventually, on the third try, I was able to make just enough of a grind on the screw to get it out. Unfortunately, things didn't improve. I don't  know fow many of you have worked on your switches, but for those who haven't, it's a total pita. There is nothing but small parts in even smaller spaces. After many hours and much frustration, I got to the contact plate for the kill switch. I found that the reason that there was a short was because the solder holding the wire to the plate had completely broken off. So after breaking out the solder gun and doing this all for the first time (a common theme of working on this bike...) I soldered it all back together. Putting the switch back together was even more of a pita than taking it apart. Especially the c clip that goes on the shaft of the red kill switch. I also forgot to reinstall one of the balls in the switch mechanism so I had to do a bunch of backtracking to fix that. Eventually though I got it back together and found out that............it didn't work. I'm assuming my soldered joint broke again while reassembly. I was so frustrated after working on it most of an afternoon that I just left it and kept using my bypass. I still haven't fixed it, maybe in the spring when I regain my patience for it. But until then, my bypass has sereved me fine.

The evil c clip. Notice the grinder marks. No biggie, nobody can see it anyways.





I fixed it! Except not.....

[hoodellyhoo]

Seeing as this bike is so old, I opted on the side of safety and changed my sprockets and chain, even thought the old sprockets looked good. I bought my sprockets from JC whitney and stayed with the stock sizes. On the advice of the forum, I bought an o-ring chain off of ebay. Unfortunately it was during this stage of my resurrection that I made a mistake that prevented me from riding most of the summer. The front sprocket and chain came off fine, but the rear sprocket gave me issues. I don't know how it is on the other sohc4's, but I assume they all have a similar setup where there are four bolts that run through the sproket and connect it to the rear wheel. I didn't know it, but the bolts seemed to have been pressed in at the factory. I needed to get them out and transfer them to the new sproket. Unfortunately they didn't come out easily. In my inifite wisdom, I made the stupid novice decision to knock the bolts out of the sprocket with a hammer. In the process of doing so I did, get the bolts separated, but I also hammered on the threads and screwed tham all up. I tried to resuse them but they were too far gone. I thought I'd see if I could order them but I couldn't find a part number because the sprockets with the bolts and dust plate is all sold as one unit (dicontinued, of course). Finally I put a post for the bolts in the wanted section of the site. 74cb750 sold me some and I finally had the bike all together with one week left of summer vacation.

It was during this time of figuring out the bolts situation that I took care of all the legalities of riding my bike. I transfered the title from my father to me. I got the bike insured. Most importantly, I took the MSF course and got my license. As it has been said before by others, I highly reccomend the course. There is something for everyone to learn and I was able to do it all in one weekend. We had at least 4 guys in my class that had been riding for years on renewed or expired temps licenses.

Picture time

The most evil bolts on the face of the earth



I opted for the rare factory real wheel elimination kit.



The day I finally got the bike back together and was able to ride (legally).

[hoodellyhoo]

The last thing I have to wite about is....the awesome riding! Since I got this bike back on the road I have never had so much fun. This little 350f is an absolute blast to ride. There are few sounds as pleasing as hearing that bike sucking in air as it "whoofs" up towards redline (I haven't yet taken it to 10k, I feel I should have some sympathy for it). I don't care that it's not nearly as fast as other bikes! Riding this bike is about exiting the senses, which it never fails to do. It will cruise wonderfully at 60 down country roads. Although I have taken it up to 75 and cruised the freeway at 70 with ease for a short period, the bike seems a little too uncomfortable maintaining those speeds. I also haven't tried to reach a maximum speed, again because of sympathy. I have had a few pleasant comments from strangers at stoplights admiring my bike, which is always fun. I also enjoy the gas mileage! My girlfriend didn't like it when I told her I was getting close to 60mpg (her car gets about 28). Since I pulled the bike out of the garage this spring, I've put on about 1,200 miles.

I made the decision to take the bike to college with me, even though the bike would be stored in an unlocked garage. Fortunately we live in a safe neighborhood. I was only going to keep it here for a week (to take it to show forum member johnnie), but I just enjoyed riding it too much to let it go. I have taken it on many cruise into the country. My girlfriend has even ridden it a few times with me.

My longest trip was a quest for a motorcyce shop (rerun motorcycles) in Sheboygan, which borders lake michigan. When I got to the shop, the had a sign saying they were closed for two weeks. So I decided that as long as I had come that far, I might as well go and see lake michigan. The trip totaled about 140 miles and included 20 miles of 70mph freeway cruising. I got a few stares of amazement from harley riders passing by. I guess they didn't know it was possible for such a little machine to run on the big roads.

All in all, I can't say enough about how great the experience of reviving and riding this bike has been. I can't thank the members of this board enough for helping me and giving this novice to do the work that I did. There is still plenty of work left to do. There is a leaky oring around one of my cylinder studs. The tachometer needs fixing because it will display engine speeds that are consistently below the actual by about 2,000rpm (there is no constant fluctuating). I just purchased a backrest for the girlfriend off ebay that needs minor work. I personally think they look ugly on these bikes, but if it means we get to ride more places now than drive, I'm happy. I may also replace the rocker cover someday with one that isn't damaged around the tach seal. But these are just small things that aren't urgent. For now, I am content.

Annie at school in Oshkosh with me, getting ready to head out. Shame on me for putting my helmet on my seat.



Stopping for lunch on a friday afternoon ride (wearing my dad's old leather jacket)



I took a ride west of Oshkosh and discovered this, Waukau Creek. Makes for a nice desktop background.



Annie at Lake Michigan. Notice the high-tech navigation device ( a piece of paper with directions written on it taped over the idiot lights)



Getting frozen custard at Leon's in Oshkosh

[Bob Wessner]

Great looking! It may be small on displacement, but has plenty of character.