Topic: Pods Thread

[edbikerii]

BTW, the reason I'm reluctant to use the local Honda dealer is that they once tried to charge me $8 per plug for stock plugs.  I got them mail order for $2, shipped USPS for something like $2 more, IIRC.

Ever since then, I've been reluctant to even spend the time going to that dealer.  I guess he'll never sucker me into buying a new bike from him next time I'm in for parts...  That is why the parts dept is always way in the very back behind all the shiney new bikes, right?

[Wheelhorse77]

That is why the parts dept is always way in the very back behind all the shiney new bikes, right?

ya, the last time I was in their they tried to get me to buy a new 109R limited. The appeal of the bike and the ability to smoke the tire in second gear was enticing, but I've got the ol red head for now.

[edbikerii]

And it's a lot easier to sell a bike to somebody who is currently buying parts to repair a problem.  They might not feel so great about "old reliable" at that moment.

That is why the parts dept is always way in the very back behind all the shiney new bikes, right?

ya, the last time I was in their they tried to get me to buy a new 109R limited. The appeal of the bike and the ability to smoke the tire in second gear was enticing, but I've got the ol red head for now.

[relative q]

What's wrong with the Emgo filters?  I quite like them.  People knock them because they are inexpensive.  You know, "it must be better because I paid more"?  Plus, they actually fit on the 77-78 CB550K, whereas I've read that the K&N's are blocked by the frame.

Will those Emgos fit on a 77 550F as well?  The ones I bought don't clear the frame.  If yours fit an F, what's the part number?

[edbikerii]

I don't know, I don't have an 'F'  .

Go to http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/.  Look under "Fuel System Parts" on the left menu, then click on "Air Filters" in the main frame, then "Pod Filters".  You'll see that unlike the K&Ns, these are conical rather than cylindrical, thus allowing more clearance.  Might just solve your problem.  At $10 each, I think they are much less expensive than the K&Ns too.  Don't forget to get yourself filter oil.  I think even PepBoys sells K&N filter cleaning and oiling kits.

[EDIT added:] Don't believe what they say about not needing to re-jet.  At least my 550K with PD46C carbs DEFINITELY needed rejetting.  I also have a MAC 4-1 exhaust, which advertises the same "no need for rejetting", though.  Could be that both the original 4-4 exhaust and the stock airbox are very restrictive.

What's wrong with the Emgo filters?  I quite like them.  People knock them because they are inexpensive.  You know, "it must be better because I paid more"?  Plus, they actually fit on the 77-78 CB550K, whereas I've read that the K&N's are blocked by the frame.

Will those Emgos fit on a 77 550F as well?  The ones I bought don't clear the frame.  If yours fit an F, what's the part number?

[relative q]

Yeah, those are the same ones I have.  Those don't clear the frame on the F models.

[edbikerii]

Check out this thread:  http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=12669.msg121760#msg121760

There are two posts in that thread in which people have found solutions for pod filters on a 550F

Yeah, those are the same ones I have.  Those don't clear the frame on the F models.

[mmtsquid]

Well, the struggle continues........
I've upped the main jet to 104, the needle is on the #4 position (there are 5, 1=top, 5=bottom).
Idles great, but really stumbles at half throttle - WOT is pretty good though.
Try moving the needle to #5 position?
What if I do that and it STILL stumbles?

[Wheelhorse77]

If you pull your choke out at half throttle and it dies, it is probably too fat, if it picks up then it is too lean.

you could also do a plug chop at half throttle when it whacks out and see if the plugs are wet from a rich condition.

[mmtsquid]

OK, I quit!!!!!!
I have tried several different jets, each at all needle positions to no avail - bike just didn't run very well.
After having the carbs off for the eighth time in one day, I said screw it and put the stock jets and airbox back on.

Bike runs perfectly, mild mannered and smooth.
Two Tired, you are right sir!  Why mess with perfection?

[edbikerii]

Ok mmtsquid,

So you went to 104 mains, and you were happy with WOT performance.  So, you were halfway there, having found the right main jets.

Then you were going to adjust the needles from the #4 position.  What happened then?

[mmtsquid]

I moved needle to #5, midrange performance got worse.
Moved to #3, it was worse yet!
#4 was the best position, but it was still NOT GOOD.
I really think the cheap pods I bought were too free flowing - wouldn't allow enough vacuum to pull fuel at mid throttle position.
Perhaps a different needle shape would have helped, but I really wasn't seeing enough performance gain at WOT for it to be worthwhile to pursue.

[edbikerii]

Were they oiled properly?

I moved needle to #5, midrange performance got worse.
Moved to #3, it was worse yet!
#4 was the best position, but it was still NOT GOOD.
I really think the cheap pods I bought were too free flowing - wouldn't allow enough vacuum to pull fuel at mid throttle position.
Perhaps a different needle shape would have helped, but I really wasn't seeing enough performance gain at WOT for it to be worthwhile to pursue.

[mmtsquid]

yup.

I'm at a loss.

[edbikerii]

I haven't been working on this for the past couple of weeks as I've had other things on my plate.

I've still got 106 mains in my bike, which work well, but I feel may be just slightly too rich.  I get the slightest bit of blubbering at WOT above 7000 RPM, and seem to top out at about 95mph (I may be chickening out due to traffic considerations).  My 0-3/4 throttle is excellent, with needles at 2nd groove from top.

I'm on my way to a local shop to try and get DJ-104 or Keihin 105 mains right now.  I'm tired of waiting a week for each delivery of jets from Dynojet, and paying too much for shipping.  Dynojet wouldn't throw them in the US Mail for $.41 and two days.

[matchanu]

I hate to read all of this as I love the look of the pods.

But I simply cannot argue with the results.

I have stock 110 jets on my cb750, before the top end rebuild it ran rich, now it's so lean it has nothing for power.

I'll probably still mess around with the settings untill I get it to work, but I'm going to have to put the box back on for a spell.


Question; is the exhaust back pressure going to play into the carb settings at all? I'm running a Cherry Bomb now but it's WAY too loud, I'm adding a harley drag pipe baffle and fiberglass silencer material to quiet it up a bit and add a bit of back pressure.

Any thoughts?

[MRieck]

I haven't been working on this for the past couple of weeks as I've had other things on my plate.

I've still got 106 mains in my bike, which work well, but I feel may be just slightly too rich.  I get the slightest bit of blubbering at WOT above 7000 RPM, and seem to top out at about 95mph (I may be chickening out due to traffic considerations).  My 0-3/4 throttle is excellent, with needles at 2nd groove from top.

I'm on my way to a local shop to try and get DJ-104 or Keihin 105 mains right now.  I'm tired of waiting a week for each delivery of jets from Dynojet, and paying too much for shipping.  Dynojet wouldn't throw them in the US Mail for $.41 and two days.

It sounds like you are just about there. The 104's will probably do the trick IMO.

[SOHC4ever]

I finally got that B!%¢h back on there with a little ingenuity, and saved myself $80 worth of rubbers with this simple recipe:

Air Box Rubber Tea (serves 1 SOHC4)
Remove all 4 rubbers from the air box and put them in thermos coffee mugs - 2 in each mug.
Add boiling water to each mug, put the lid on, and let steep for as long as it takes to bring the mugs from the kitchen to the bike.
remove the rubbers one by one from the Rubber Tea with a set of pliers and, using a rag to insulate your hand, work the softened rubber on to the carb body.
Fasten the rubbers to the carbs with clamps, and you're ready to start fiddling with the air box!.

It took me about an hour to get it all together and working, but next time it'll be 10 - 20 mins. Put the air box in top piece 1st, 1 piece at a time, and fasten it up tight.

What a difference! It doesn't come out of the hole like I want it to, but there's good power through the mid range and reasonable power at WOT. Looking back, the pods definitely did not create enough air pressure through the venturi to deliver the  mixture at the right pressure.

I got a new jet set in the mail, and I think I'll try fatter ones to see if they give me a better jump, but I'm not going to put pods back on this bike.

I'd imagine that they would work well with a bike that could create enough pressure on the intake stroke. Any vets care to comment?

[edbikerii]

Thanks Mike!

Turns out my local shop didn't have Dynojet 104s in stock, but they had some Keihin 105 take-offs instead.  Probably came off a CB750!  I went with these.  I guess I'd rather be 1 size too rich than burn up my engine, plus I didn't want to wait another week for shipping.

She's just about perfect now.  She idles nice and smooth at 1000 if desired, no flat spots, no pinging on regular gas, pulls like a demon from a stop, pulls very strong right up to redline in any gear.  I even surprised the heck out of myself pulling out into highway traffic a few minutes ago at WOT.  There was definitely too much traffic today to do a top speed run, but she easily pulls up to 90mph and has LOTS of steam left.

Here's my setup for jetting my 1977 CB550K:

77 CB 550 K
26,468 miles
MAC 4-1
Emgo pods oiled with Uni filter oil [see below]
PD46C "lean burn" carbs
105 Keihin mains
stock E2349F needles in 2nd position from top (2nd leanest -- stock position!)
42 pilot jets (stock)
Idle Mixture Screws 2.5 turns out
float height ~14mm
67A Throttle valves (stock) [EDIT: added 8/16/07]
NGK D7EA spark plugs w/about 4,000 miles - stock gap.
Dyna S Ignition
Dyna 5 Ohm coils and wires (with non-resistor caps)
Timed statically to stock advance per Dyna S instructions
87 octane gasoline (with up to 10% ethanol warning on pump)
My elevation is about 200 ft. above sea level.

Temps after (slightly fun) run:  Right side bank #4 at base gasket 278F, at head gasket 303F, ambient ~85F.

Thanks to everybody!

Ed

[EDIT to include information on the pods I used in one central location]
Go to http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/.  Look under "Fuel System Parts" on the left menu, then click on "Air Filters" in the main frame, then "Pod Filters".  You'll see that unlike the K&Ns, these are conical rather than cylindrical, thus allowing more clearance.  Might just solve your problem.  At $10 each, I think they are much less expensive than the K&Ns too.  Don't forget to get yourself filter oil.  I think even PepBoys sells K&N filter cleaning and oiling kits.

Don't believe what they say about not needing to re-jet.  At least my 550K with PD46C carbs DEFINITELY needed rejetting.  I also have a MAC 4-1 exhaust, which advertises the same "no need for rejetting", though.  Could be that both the original 4-4 exhaust and the stock airbox are very restrictive.

I haven't been working on this for the past couple of weeks as I've had other things on my plate.

I've still got 106 mains in my bike, which work well, but I feel may be just slightly too rich.  I get the slightest bit of blubbering at WOT above 7000 RPM, and seem to top out at about 95mph (I may be chickening out due to traffic considerations).  My 0-3/4 throttle is excellent, with needles at 2nd groove from top.

I'm on my way to a local shop to try and get DJ-104 or Keihin 105 mains right now.  I'm tired of waiting a week for each delivery of jets from Dynojet, and paying too much for shipping.  Dynojet wouldn't throw them in the US Mail for $.41 and two days.

It sounds like you are just about there. The 104's will probably do the trick IMO.

[andy750]

Congratulations Ed!! You certainly have put a lot of work into this and I for one have enjoyed following your progress. Its like armchair mechanics  Your last post should really be put in the FAQ for Carbs or something like that. Its great info!! Thanks for sharing the process with us.

cheers
Andy

[TwoTired]

Well done Ed.  Nice to see your perserverence pay off.

How many hours would you estimate it took to get those pods adapted?

Personally, I think the education gathered along the way was well worth it.  Don't you?

Any added cost for working on it instead of riding?

Cheers,

[edbikerii]

Thanks Andy.  I'm happy to hear that you appreciated all the gory details!  I was hoping that the details of the process might benefit others down the road.

Congratulations Ed!! You certainly have put a lot of work into this and I for one have enjoyed following your progress. Its like armchair mechanics  Your last post should really be put in the FAQ for Carbs or something like that. Its great info!! Thanks for sharing the process with us.

cheers
Andy

[edbikerii]

Thanks TT!  I really appreciate all your help!  Especially your critical thinking skills keeping me honest.

Of course, I realize that the Honda engineers made other considerations with the airbox that go far beyond my joy rides; Things like rain, strong sidewinds, etc.  If I still had to commute on the bike daily, I'd probably stick with the stock airbox.  As things are now, I'm just going to be a fair-weather rider, and my bike stays in the garage when I'm not riding.

I recorded about 10 hours of actual wrenching, but spent at least triple that many on "analysis", searching the archives, and test riding.  That 10 hours includes the 4 hours I spent re-installing the stock airbox and jets and then going back to the pods.

It has definitely been an education well worth the time invested, too!!!

In terms of wrenching vs. riding, I was finding the jetting issue challenging, so I enjoyed solving it *nearly* as much as riding.

Thanks again for all the help!

Ed

Well done Ed.  Nice to see your perserverence pay off.

How many hours would you estimate it took to get those pods adapted?

Personally, I think the education gathered along the way was well worth it.  Don't you?

Any added cost for working on it instead of riding?

Cheers,

[neil young]

i have a 77 cb 550 with keihin pd 46a...how come yours are  46 c ???whats the differance between the two

[edbikerii]

i have a 77 cb 550 with keihin pd 46a...how come yours are  46 c ???whats the differance between the two

For some observed differences, check out this thread:
http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=16011.0

There is also lots of information in the FAQ and if you search for "pd46a" or "pd46c" you'll find even more.