Author Topic: Pods Thread  (Read 137862 times)

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Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2007, 05:41:26 AM »
No, adding pods alone will not straighten out the 77 CB550K lean condition.

I was trying to say that the factory settings are too lean, making the bike run too hot, so the bike should be rejetted anyway, even if you keep the stock airbox and filter.

So, my thinking is that if you need to rejet anyway, you might as well rejet for pods, in order to take advantage of all the other benefits of a freer flowing intake (more horsepower, clean look, lighter, more space to work on bike, no interference with aftermarket seats, etc.).

I think most, if not all, of the complaints that we've heard about pod filters are rectified by re-jetting the carbs properly and keeping the pod filters oiled properly.  When I'm done re-jetting, I'll be sure to post any problems I encounter with my pods.

And no, Dynojet doesn't offer a jet kit for the 77 CB550K.  If they did, I'd just buy it and avoid having to do all the trial and error to find the right settings.

so if i add pods to my 77 550 should the lean condition straighten out ???
[/quote]
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline Wheelhorse77

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2007, 06:18:11 AM »
I run the stock air box , 4-1 and the bike runs great.

I also read that K&N Pods are the only way to go on these bikes.
77 750F2 ressurected from the dead
ASE Advanced Level Master Tech

Offline mmtsquid

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2007, 07:43:16 AM »
Ok, I've just ordered pods for my bike, and have a few questions.......
How do you properly oil them?
Should I go ahead and order jets 1 size larger?
77 CB550K4

Offline andy750

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2007, 07:57:17 AM »

"Ok, I've just ordered pods for my bike, and have a few questions.......
How do you properly oil them?
Should I go ahead and order jets 1 size larger?"

Go back and read Two Tireds post one page back...
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2007, 08:01:10 AM »
If only it were that simple.  As I said, if Dynojet sold a jet kit for our bikes, I would just buy it.  Unfortunately, jetting for our bikes is still a trial and error process, as nobody seems to have figured it out yet.

I've tried 114 mains, but I think they're too rich.  I've got 3 more sets of jets expected via UPS tomorrow, so I might be getting closer after this weekend.

Ok, I've just ordered pods for my bike, and have a few questions.......
How do you properly oil them?
Should I go ahead and order jets 1 size larger?
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline mmtsquid

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2007, 09:47:22 AM »
Well, let us know how it turns out!
77 CB550K4

Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2007, 01:54:32 PM »
Well, in order to satisfy the engineer in me, and in accordance with the Scientific Method, I just had to complete the "control" portion of this experiment.  Besides, if I didn't do it the right way, TwoTired would surely catch me!

So, last night I spent about three hours re-installing the stock airbox and filter (cursing mostly), and the 90 main jets.  It is very miserable to install the stock airbox.  I hate that damned airbox even more now!  It also makes installing the carbs and jetting a whole lot more unpleasant.  In addition, I had to reinstall my stock seat as my cafe seat mounting interfered with the airbox snorkel and the airbox mounting holes.

I took it for the baseline ride today, and DAMN, it sure does run well with that godforsaken stock airbox!  She pulls strong all the way through the throttle up to WOT, and all the way up to redline.  No flat spots, no bogging, etc.  She pulled strongly up to 90 mph, and easily would have kept going, but traffic necessitated slowing down.  There is definitely more popping in the exhaust on deceleration, and still seems to be pretty hot (yeah, I should buy an IR thermometer), but all-in-all, the bike runs really well with the stock airbox (duh).  Oh, and it has a convenient spigot and oil separator for that crankcase breather hose, so no more smelly smoke.

Furthermore, I've rediscovered just how comfortable that stock seat is!  Just like my experience with clip-ons, I really like the look of the cafe seat, but perhaps the stock seat is just more pleasant to ride on.  It is thicker, you sit up taller, knees are not bent as much, etc.  I guess I'm just getting old.   

So, what I thought would be a quick 20 minute baseline ride turned into a 1.5 hour fun ride.  I found myself passing my house three times but not pulling in, as I didn't want to stop riding!

Finally, back at the ranch, the new jets arrived for the pods & rejetting project.  After messing around with that airbox last night, and the excellent ride I enjoyed today, I'm now reluctant to start screwing around again.  I'd love to try to have the bike run cooler, and clean up that decel popping, but I'm no longer sure that the improvement will be worth it.  If that airbox weren't so difficult to work with, I'd just do it, but now I'm hesitating.

Dammit, TT, why'd you have to go and make me put that damned stock airbox back on?
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline Wheelhorse77

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2007, 01:59:49 PM »
Wait until you get a rainy week to tear into again; in the meantime ride and enjoy!!!
77 750F2 ressurected from the dead
ASE Advanced Level Master Tech

Offline mcpuffett

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2007, 05:29:31 AM »
Well edbikerii, i am the same as you after refitting the standard air box and doing numerous plug chops etc my bike is running great & i just want to ride it so at the moment the pods are back on the shelf , just need some dry weather over here in the uk & i will be able to ride  ;),   cheers mick.
Honda CB750 KO 1970,   Honda VTX 1300 2006, Lancaster England.

Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2007, 06:55:11 AM »
Yes, at least for now, I'd rather be riding than wrenching!
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline andy750

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2007, 07:30:18 AM »
Ed, glad to hear you confirm that the stock airbox is the way to go ;-) I rode my friends CB550 home for her last night and like you we had converted from pods back to stock airbox and bike sounds and runs so much better. For me it was a quick blast on the interstate getting up to  80mph easily and cruising at 75mph. Only issue with this 550 is its running a little rough at top end but I can hear the valves need adjusting and then carbs balanced so this will hopefully clear it up. No popping on this bike and everything else is good.

Im now curious to know who are the people who have pods and where the bike runs as well as stock?? If this is you can you report jet sizes and air screw settings. Not for me but just for the general knowledge! Id stick with stock myself.

cheers
Andy

Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline Wheelhorse77

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2007, 08:02:37 AM »
Ed, glad to hear you confirm that the stock airbox is the way to go ;-) I rode my friends CB550 home for her last night and like you we had converted from pods back to stock airbox and bike sounds and runs so much better. For me it was a quick blast on the interstate getting up to  80mph easily and cruising at 75mph. Only issue with this 550 is its running a little rough at top end but I can hear the valves need adjusting and then carbs balanced so this will hopefully clear it up. No popping on this bike and everything else is good.

Im now curious to know who are the people who have pods and where the bike runs as well as stock?? If this is you can you report jet sizes and air screw settings. Not for me but just for the general knowledge! Id stick with stock myself.

cheers
Andy



Seat of the pants feel can be so misleading. It's best to run it up on a dyno to observe A/F ratio stock and then make the upgrades, dial in the same ratio and see what the gains amount to.

I have an old article by Dick Miller in a pdf file, but I am unsure on how to load it on here as an attachment. I can mail it to those who would be interested in reading some old school speed tricks that still apply today.
77 750F2 ressurected from the dead
ASE Advanced Level Master Tech

Offline TwoTired

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2007, 10:29:00 AM »
Well, in order to satisfy the engineer in me, and in accordance with the Scientific Method, I just had to complete the "control" portion of this experiment. 
......snipped......
Dammit, TT, why'd you have to go and make me put that damned stock airbox back on?

First, let me say how gratified I am that something I wrote had some small contribution to your ride enjoyment.  Appreciating these bikes for what they can be, and trying to reduce the level of frustration in the world is why I post to this forum.

Second, I must admit your post had me laughing out loud.  You have a fun writing style.  I had no idea I could twist an arm so effectively over the internet.

Third, can you imagine how it would run with stock exhaust, too?  Were you using the stock paper element filter?

The only operational area where pods have a possibility of performance improvement is at or near WOT and near or above redline operations of the engine.  Ask yourself how often you plan to operate in that regime.  That reqime also wears the engine out much faster.  Is it worth more frequent piston replacement and sleeve boring?  How is that extra power going to benefit you?  At the track?  Surprising the CBR drivers on the street?  Will your riding grin be THAT much wider when the engine makes a few extra HP?

Me, I look at all the other bikes on the street, and although I know plenty of the machines can outdistance mine on any given day, I wonder if they will even exist 30 years from now, let alone run the same way as they do now.  Mine do.  Perhaps because I haven't eeked out an extra 10-20 HP at 10,000 RPM to try a keep up with the sport bikes.  I also appreciate the fact that I can get on and ride the bike 20 minutes or 3 hours and not be physically beaten or ache for days by doing so.   I like to know that I CAN ride on past that next cafe without stopping to recuperate.  I'm not shy about using the power my machines do make, for certain.  My 74 550 has seen way too many frequent excursions into point float, and hasn't even needed its head removed.  I had a 750 tach (wrong) on it for years and couldn't reach redline despite how long I held the throttle open.  Point float at about 10K likely saved the engine, I reckon.  But, at that time, I never even considered that I'd still be operating the bike 25 years in the future.  I no longer consider the bike a throw away.

I'm going to wax philosophical, now.  It's okay if you want to tune out.

While I certainly appreciate certain talented solo artists and the pleasant sounds they can produce, the extra dimension of a band or orchestra can make for a truly thrilling experience.
 Honda had a band or orchestra of engineers striving to make an all around street machine.  The result was a machine that was better than the individual efforts could provide.  When you think about it it, isn't it kind of arrogant to think an individual  bike owner with little experience can actually surpass a team of talented engineers?  While it can certainly be done, that talent is rare.   

The racer look is attractive as that evokes a "special" conotation and we all want something special.  However, few race bikes actually behave well on the street.  These are often thoroughbred purpose built machines.  Teams of engineers/mechanics make these machines pretty special, indeed.   Street conditions are far more unpredicable than the track.  And rider comforts are secondary if they don't directly contribute to reduced track times.  How many tracks have sand spills, RR crossings, pot holes, and washboards to tax a stiff suspension and rider wrists and kidneys?  Further, the actual traveled miles of these racers is very small in ratio to the time that the engineers/mechanics spent working out the fine details.

An individual owner/bike modifier often sees the obvious things that make a racer bike look uniquely "racer" and  starts to apply them to his stocker.  There are hundreds of subtle things not overtly visible that go along with the racer look; jetting, suspension tuning, valving, geometry changes, etc. that go along with the look, but aren't openly shared by the original builders.  Race bikes have a high maintenance to miles driven ratio.  Street bikes have just the opposite.

There is no doubt that working on and modifying bikes can be educational, fun, and rewarding in its own right.  If being in the garage and learning how things work is what you wish to do, I wish you well with your endeavors, and hope that you can eventually acheive that well balanced street machine effect that Honda delivered.  However, if getting more miles driven than work done to the bike is the goal, making it stock will achieve that faster than modifications and garage time spent.

Judging from how you describe issues with maintenance on the air box, it certainly seems to me that you get more enjoyment out of the ride than finageling parts on your bike.  Personally, I found the airbox on the 400 far more challenging than the cb550.  However, with both it's a matter of putting things back on in the proper methodical order. 

I hope you derive all the enjoyment from your machine you deserve.

Cheers,




Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2007, 11:03:47 AM »
Andy750:

I did a lot of searching here and on the old greenspun archives http://www.sohc4.us/greenspun/index.php?action=search;advanced(and everywhere I could), and I think it was Bodi who indicated that he was quite happy with his pods on a 77 550K.  However, he said he was using 118 mains.  I was using 114 mains with my pods, and I was having problems with bogging at WOT.  Under load, I couldn't get the bike to rev past 5K RPM, where it would just bog out.  I suspected it was too rich with 114s, so I lowered the needles two positions, and things improved.  After that change it would get to 6K RPM at WOT before bogging out.

Plug chops don't seem to reveal any changes on my plugs regardless of what carb settings are used.  I've read in other threads that this may be due to my Dyna ignition and 5ohm coils producing such a hot spark that it burns off the deposits.

Carpy chimed in on the Greenspun archives about how he ALWAYS uses pods on his 750s with 120 mains and 40? pilots.  He and his customers seem pretty happy with that.

Wheelhorse77:
I know that "seat of the pants" tuning is not as accurate as a Dyno, but would a dyno-equipped shop be willing/qualified to work on this old bike?  Do you know any good dyno shops to re-jet an old 1977 CB550 in the NY tri-state area?  When I consider all the hours of research, trial and error, and waiting for jets in the mail, it might be worth the expense to have a qualified professional do it.  What does it usually cost?

I'd definitely be interested in that PDF!  Thanks.
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2007, 12:49:00 PM »
Well, in order to satisfy the engineer in me, and in accordance with the Scientific Method, I just had to complete the "control" portion of this experiment. 
......snipped......
Dammit, TT, why'd you have to go and make me put that damned stock airbox back on?

First, let me say how gratified I am that something I wrote had some small contribution to your ride enjoyment.  Appreciating these bikes for what they can be, and trying to reduce the level of frustration in the world is why I post to this forum.

Believe me, TT, your posts have contributed greatly to a lot of forum reader's enjoyment.

Quote
Second, I must admit your post had me laughing out loud.  You have a fun writing style.  I had no idea I could twist an arm so effectively over the internet.
Thank you!  As for twisting my arm, I think of it more as "keeping me honest". 

Quote

Third, can you imagine how it would run with stock exhaust, too?  Were you using the stock paper element filter?
I knew you'd catch me!  No, my stock exhaust is long gone.  I remember when one of the pipes rusted through, and I threw away (!!!) the other three good pipes.  I sure didn't think they, or my old CB550 for that matter, would ever be worth any money.  I replaced them with a MAC 4-1 more than a decade ago.  I have a UNI foam filter element that I've been using for more than a decade as well.  It is also oiled with UNI filter oil.  That's as close to stock as I figure I'll ever get, considering the cost of the pipes and the fact that the washable UNI element costs 1/2 as much as a single-use Honda paper filter.  Besides, I rode the bike for many years that way, so I guess it was OK.  I seem to remember the bike running hot even before those changes were made.  Back then, I used to ride around in city traffic an awful lot, though.

Quote
The only operational area where pods have a possibility of performance improvement is at or near WOT and near or above redline operations of the engine.  Ask yourself how often you plan to operate in that regime.  That reqime also wears the engine out much faster.  Is it worth more frequent piston replacement and sleeve boring?  How is that extra power going to benefit you?  At the track?  Surprising the CBR drivers on the street?  Will your riding grin be THAT much wider when the engine makes a few extra HP?

Me, I look at all the other bikes on the street, and although I know plenty of the machines can outdistance mine on any given day, I wonder if they will even exist 30 years from now, let alone run the same way as they do now.  Mine do.  Perhaps because I haven't eeked out an extra 10-20 HP at 10,000 RPM to try a keep up with the sport bikes.  I also appreciate the fact that I can get on and ride the bike 20 minutes or 3 hours and not be physically beaten or ache for days by doing so.   I like to know that I CAN ride on past that next cafe without stopping to recuperate.  I'm not shy about using the power my machines do make, for certain.  My 74 550 has seen way too many frequent excursions into point float, and hasn't even needed its head removed.  I had a 750 tach (wrong) on it for years and couldn't reach redline despite how long I held the throttle open.  Point float at about 10K likely saved the engine, I reckon.  But, at that time, I never even considered that I'd still be operating the bike 25 years in the future.  I no longer consider the bike a throw away.
Funny, "this won't be around in 30 years" is exactly what I was thinking when I threw away those 4-4 pipes!

Quote

I'm going to wax philosophical, now.  It's okay if you want to tune out.

While I certainly appreciate certain talented solo artists and the pleasant sounds they can produce, the extra dimension of a band or orchestra can make for a truly thrilling experience.
 Honda had a band or orchestra of engineers striving to make an all around street machine.  The result was a machine that was better than the individual efforts could provide.  When you think about it it, isn't it kind of arrogant to think an individual  bike owner with little experience can actually surpass a team of talented engineers?  While it can certainly be done, that talent is rare.   

The racer look is attractive as that evokes a "special" conotation and we all want something special.  However, few race bikes actually behave well on the street.  These are often thoroughbred purpose built machines.  Teams of engineers/mechanics make these machines pretty special, indeed.   Street conditions are far more unpredicable than the track.  And rider comforts are secondary if they don't directly contribute to reduced track times.  How many tracks have sand spills, RR crossings, pot holes, and washboards to tax a stiff suspension and rider wrists and kidneys?  Further, the actual traveled miles of these racers is very small in ratio to the time that the engineers/mechanics spent working out the fine details.

An individual owner/bike modifier often sees the obvious things that make a racer bike look uniquely "racer" and  starts to apply them to his stocker.  There are hundreds of subtle things not overtly visible that go along with the racer look; jetting, suspension tuning, valving, geometry changes, etc. that go along with the look, but aren't openly shared by the original builders.  Race bikes have a high maintenance to miles driven ratio.  Street bikes have just the opposite.

There is no doubt that working on and modifying bikes can be educational, fun, and rewarding in its own right.  If being in the garage and learning how things work is what you wish to do, I wish you well with your endeavors, and hope that you can eventually acheive that well balanced street machine effect that Honda delivered.  However, if getting more miles driven than work done to the bike is the goal, making it stock will achieve that faster than modifications and garage time spent.
I'm starting to think that I may have had enough fun learning about carbs for now.  There are plenty of other things to spend time fixing, and still not enough time for riding.

Quote
Judging from how you describe issues with maintenance on the air box, it certainly seems to me that you get more enjoyment out of the ride than finageling parts on your bike.  Personally, I found the airbox on the 400 far more challenging than the cb550.  However, with both it's a matter of putting things back on in the proper methodical order.
Jeez, I truly spent almost 3 hours getting that airbox installed properly, and I've read other users' posts who said it took them 5 and even 7 hours.  I'm just glad I didn't have to do that job on a 400, then.  By the way, I've disassembled and re-assembled most everything on this bike over the last 15 years, short of splitting the cases (knock on wood), so I do enjoy learning how it works, etc.

I guess another problem I have is that I've spent the last 5 years or so working on old Jaguars, too.  Jaguars will surely convince even the greenest engineer that they "could have designed it better" than the team of engineers at the factory.  He'll probably be right at least 90% of the time, too.  I just recently got rid of a long-term Jaguar restoration project (1958 XK150), so I'm happy to focus on my CB550 a little again.

Well, if you don't mind, I do have another couple of questions for you.



The front part of the airbox (#12) has what appears to be a drain in the bottom that comes off at an angle.  On my bike, there is no hose or anything that seems to connect to it.  The microfiche shows a "breather" hose (#17)  but my bike has no such hose.  Do you have this hose (#17), and if so, does it, in fact, connect to the drain in #12, and where does the other end connect?  It seems to me that the hole in #12 would suck unfiltered air straight into the intake, leaning out the mixture, and allowing dirt into the engine.  Perhaps this has always been a problem on my bike?

The crankcase breather tube from the cam cover is connected directly to the elbow (#23) on the side of the airbox near the bottom.  Is this correct?

I have a drain tube (#22) at the very bottom, too. 

Quote
I hope you derive all the enjoyment from your machine you deserve.

Cheers,

And you too!  Thank you for all the help.
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2007, 02:14:32 PM »
I think I have answered my own question by looking in the shop manual (of all places).  I still cannot believe that there is that open drain in the airbox allowing air to enter, but I guess the Honda engineers figured that one out, too.
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline Wheelhorse77

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2007, 04:40:19 PM »
ED,

Drop me an email and I will forward the file your way: you will find it interesting to say the least.

As far as dyno time, you get to be your own scientist... you would have to pay for a couple of runs... go home study the a/f ratio and decide on what changes you would need to make to the carbs to increase or decrease fuel at certain rpms. In essense, you spend a good deal of time working out the kinks. Remember that this is at WOT, not part throttle or off idle transitions--- yes, the fun begins. This is why I kept my stock airbox, Honda OEM paper element and the bike already came with a 4-1 so I left it as is.

I think that if I was ever going to try and extract all of the driveability that I could out of my old SOHC, I would mount a GM purple wire 02 sensor into the 4-1 header, monitor the readings at idle, part throttle, and WOT. OF course a real sweet set up would be a wide-band and a data logger, but if I was going to go that route I might as well start dialing in a bunch of SOHC's in the Chi-town area. 12.5:1 under WOT is ideal--cruising 14-15:1.

From my experience, most shops don't want to tinker with old-school bikes and if you do happen find a veteran, he wants to be compensated accordingly. I had one person approach me in question of making their 750 streetable again. It turns out that it had sat for 10 plus years in the garage and was still on the original rubber. Once I ran a list off the top of my head of what I would replace to make it safe and reliable, they ran for cover. I simply told them that I was not going to just get their bike running for them to go out and ride around on 35 year old tires and hurt themselves.
77 750F2 ressurected from the dead
ASE Advanced Level Master Tech

Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2007, 07:42:19 AM »
Wheelhorse77,

Thanks for the PDF.  If it weren't almost 1MB, I'd have attached it here.  Funny, those are tips from Russ Collins.  That tip about using the airbox rubber boots as velocity stacks makes you scratch your head and say, "why didn't I think of that?"

Hondaman has some stuff in the archives about the ignition advance tip, too.

Thanks again, interesting article.

Ed
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
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Offline Wheelhorse77

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2007, 07:50:02 AM »
Glad you got a kick out of it. I don't recall where I came across the article originally, but I figured it was a keeper nonetheless.

I'll still stick with my stock box for now.
77 750F2 ressurected from the dead
ASE Advanced Level Master Tech

Offline TwoTired

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2007, 10:57:39 AM »
Yes, the #17 hose is on my bikes.  The open end routes behind the engine case in front of the swing arm like the rest.

I agree it seems odd that it allows unfiltered air to bypass the air filter. But, I guess the Honda engineers decided that that was an acceptable tradeoff in order to prevent the #12 chamber from filling with gasoline in the event of a carb overflow.

This tube was there from the first CB500 that had no engine breather or air box drain.  The earlier style filter box and plenum could conceivably fill with water from rain, washing, etc.  Ingesting incompressible fluids into the engine could cause some serious damage.  The drain tube would address that.

In any event, the length of that #17 tube does add some flow resistance and the tube I.D. is fairly small. I think this minimizes unfiltered air ingestion.

The #22 drain tube is, oddly, NOT open ended.  There is a rubber cap with a slit in the end,  The pinch tube is squeezed at maintenence intervals to drain water condensate from the breather filter system.  The cap allows negative filter box pressure to reach all the way to the crankcase.

Since engineers tuned the bike with that tube in place, it's effects were allowed for, when jetting was selected.

Since you seem worried about the engine temp, Perhaps verifying that suspicion is the next step?  Harbor Freight has IR thermometers for as little as $10.

Cheers,

P.S.  I finally bought a new computer(s), and am going to have to adapt to all new software.  My attention to this forum could be spotty while this goes on. ::)
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2007, 03:32:27 PM »
Hey TT,

The last time I was in Harbor Freight I was on vacation in Amish country in PA.  I was like a kid in a candy store!  The ex got angry that I was gone for so long.  So, when I got home, I checked for a local HF.  Sure enough, the closest one was two hours away in Lancaster County, PA.

So, I looked at the web site today, and found that $10 IR thermometer.  Then I figured, "let's check for local retail store again.  You never know".  Sure enough, there's a new one less than 7 miles away!

Woooo Hoooo!  I know where I'll be spending my "project planning" time for now on!
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2007, 09:53:36 AM »
Hey Ed,
I was wondering if you set you carb float height to 14 or 12.5 mm?

The latter should help richen things overall, and possibly help with "coolness".   (snicker)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2007, 10:09:56 AM »
Thanks for checking on those hoses for me, TT.  My vent hose from the bottom of the front airbox is completely missing, and the opening in the airbox is slightly larger than the id of the short end of that hose, so I'll try to replace the hose, or I'll rig up two hoses with a reducer in between.

Also, the pinch end of the other hose is missing.  I can see crankcase fumes coming out the end of that hose at idle, so I'll try to rig up some other kind of pinch end.  Maybe a binder clip.

I checked the float heights, and they were already set at 14mm per Honda's spec, so no adjustment was necessary.  Good point, though, as the 78 model had 12.5mm float height, right?  Perhaps 77 models had demonstrated the hotter running, so Honda adjusted the float height to richen it up for 78?

I'll fix the hose issues first, then see if there is any improvement, then I'll consider the float height adjustment.  I suppose the UNI foam filter element might be somewhat less restrictive than a stock paper filter, so it might be making the engine run leaner (hotter).  Also, the MAC exhaust might be freer flowing than the stock 77 4-4 exhaust.  Maybe the two are conspiring against me to run too lean and overheat my engine.

I'll try to get to Harbor Freight today and buy that thermometer.
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline edbikerii

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2007, 08:40:15 PM »
The $9.99 thermometer only works up to 230F.  How hot can an overheating SOHC4 get?  They've got another that works to more than 400F, but it costs $40.

Any thoughts?
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline Blaize

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2007, 10:41:45 PM »
AAAUUGGGHHHH!!!! Twotired you Bastard!! After reading thru all of this, and realizing how farmiliar it all sounds, I just went downstairs and bolted the stock airbox back onto my 750 cafe (removed emgo pods) and then took it for a ride. I HAULS now!!! Smoother, faster, a better "Packed" sound. Now what am I going to do!?!? the emgos look so much better, but there is no way in hell I am going back after having rifdden it this way.

 A little back story-I did a full tear down to the frame over the winter and painted and polished everything. During this I went thru the carbs, threw on the pods, and went up a tooth on the rear sprocket.  So I Ignored the cardinal rule of modifying cars/bikes. don't change more than one thing at a time. and as it had been down 4-5 months over the winter I didn't realise how winded it felt. It had all the bogging and flat spots and I have just been assuming it needed to be synced. Nope it needed to be un-screwed with.

 So one more notch on the "use the stock airbox" bedpost. Now I just need to find a way to make that huge box look better.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 12:58:06 AM by Blaize »
Living the American dream (in England).