Topic: Pods Thread

[paulages]

just to clarify: by referencing this article, i clearly stated that it made no mention of filtration whatsoever. the implication i got from the article was that the test that found the stock carbs restrictive on a stock head was without filtration at all, since all other references to changes in carbs or the specially build venturi made no reference to filtration either. i would think that from their standpoint, they would be looking purely at the amount of air that can be pulled through the devices, regardless of mixture.

that being said, the relevance of this article i believe is in pointing out that the stock carb setup was indeed restrictive and therefore it stands to reason that the stock filtration also may have been further restrictive to the peak air flow of the unrestricted keihin 28s tested in the article. there has been conjecture in previous posts that honda got all they could out of the stock system, when this article clearly refutes this. while it doesn't in any way prove pods to be freer flowing, it certainly leads me to believe that whatever is on the other side of those carbs is pretty damn important (not that that's really in dispute here).


i'd be curious to hear Mreick or any of the race tuners on here who have modified higher HP engines. they all seem to run pods. granted- race bikes are usually run at high RPM, but mike's is a street bike (sorry mike, don't mean to drag you into this  ). before you point out that we are talking about stock bikes here, remember that the pods themselves are consistent. if they flow better for a modified engine, they don't just suddenly start doing so once attached to the ported head. come to think of it, unless i'm mistaken, CR carbs only fit to pods.

[edbikerii]

Yes, Paulages.  It was an excellent article, and definitely pointed out that things are not always ideal as delivered from the manufacturers.  Usually they are "good enough" for mass production, and they meet all kinds of other requirements like intake noise reduction, etc.  There's also another thread around here showing some casting flash that covered some 30% of the intake tract on one bike as delivered from Honda.

Mike has chimed in on this thread, one post before I finally reached my jetting.  Personally, I admire his restraint in having avoided this argument, and simply running his pods with no need for explanation.  Of course, his engine is highly modified, so probably flows a lot more air/fuel mix than Honda ever expected from a CB750.

Thank,

Ed

just to clarify: by referencing this article, i clearly stated that it made no mention of filtration whatsoever. the implication i got from the article was that the test that found the stock carbs restrictive on a stock head was without filtration at all, since all other references to changes in carbs or the specially build venturi made no reference to filtration either. i would think that from their standpoint, they would be looking purely at the amount of air that can be pulled through the devices, regardless of mixture.

that being said, the relevance of this article i believe is in pointing out that the stock carb setup was indeed restrictive and therefore it stands to reason that the stock filtration also may have been further restrictive to the peak air flow of the unrestricted keihin 28s tested in the article. there has been conjecture in previous posts that honda got all they could out of the stock system, when this article clearly refutes this. while it doesn't in any way prove pods to be freer flowing, it certainly leads me to believe that whatever is on the other side of those carbs is pretty damn important (not that that's really in dispute here).


i'd be curious to hear Mreick or any of the race tuners on here who have modified higher HP engines. they all seem to run pods. granted- race bikes are usually run at high RPM, but mike's is a street bike (sorry mike, don't mean to drag you into this  ). before you point out that we are talking about stock bikes here, remember that the pods themselves are consistent. if they flow better for a modified engine, they don't just suddenly start doing so once attached to the ported head. come to think of it, unless i'm mistaken, CR carbs only fit to pods.

[corbinwelter]

I just put pods on my 650, after 2 months of trying to tune it and still cant get it right.  The stock box is back on and pods are gone.  Just wish the box wasnt so bulky and ugly

[edbikerii]

Wow, never seen you on here before.  Don't recall you asking anyone for help with that jetting either.  I know when I was doing mine (see earlier posts in this thread), folks around here were very helpful, and I finally got it right.  Even many people who don't like pods offered quite a bit of helpful advice that helped me get it right.  BTW, I gave up once, and put the airbox back on, but found that I was running too lean due to other issues (MAC replacement exhaust, UNI foam filter, etc.).  So, I had to do something.

Did you tune the main jet first, or did you start fiddling with the needles right away, too?

I just put pods on my 650, after 2 months of trying to tune it and still cant get it right.  The stock box is back on and pods are gone.  Just wish the box wasnt so bulky and ugly

[hapsh]

BTW, I gave up once, and put the airbox back on, but found that I was running too lean due to other issues (MAC replacement exhaust, UNI foam filter, etc.).  So, I had to do something.

I seem to remember that your bike had the Lean Burn carbs on it, so I can see why having the UNI filter and the Mac would make things even worse.  In that situation it is clear that the factory was aiming towards better emissions at the expense of performance and engine life.  I remember that was a common thread in the automotive industry at the same time, cars ran like crap in the late 70s because they were tuned so freakin lean.  In that situation you are in a good place to just tune for pods instead of trying to optimize with stock hardware.

[edbikerii]

Yes, that's right.  I had the lean-burn carbs.  Yes, I feel that in my situation, my hands were tied.  I needed to do something, and restoring to stock would have been so expensive that I could have bought two good running CB550s instead.

If you still need any help with jetting that thing, feel free to drop me a line.  Unfortunately, unless somebody has already done the job on your configuration, the only way to do it is brute force.  Personally, I viewed it as a challenge, and took great satisfaction in meeting it.

BTW, I gave up once, and put the airbox back on, but found that I was running too lean due to other issues (MAC replacement exhaust, UNI foam filter, etc.).  So, I had to do something.

I seem to remember that your bike had the Lean Burn carbs on it, so I can see why having the UNI filter and the Mac would make things even worse.  In that situation it is clear that the factory was aiming towards better emissions at the expense of performance and engine life.  I remember that was a common thread in the automotive industry at the same time, cars ran like crap in the late 70s because they were tuned so freakin lean.  In that situation you are in a good place to just tune for pods instead of trying to optimize with stock hardware.

[paulages]

Mike has chimed in on this thread, one post before I finally reached my jetting.  Personally, I admire his restraint in having avoided this argument, and simply running his pods with no need for explanation.  Of course, his engine is highly modified, so probably flows a lot more air/fuel mix than Honda ever expected from a CB750.

yeah, i admire that too. i figure that's why several people are probably staying out of this thread. they're probably smart. i'd just honestly like some input from more people running them successfully. TT has provided adequate theoretical argument against them-- i'm just wondering if anyone else has real world data in favor.

[nilsey]

i'd just honestly like some input from more people running them successfully. TT has provided adequate theoretical argument against them-- i'm just wondering if anyone else has real world data in favor.

Seconded!!!!!

[TwoTired]

i'd just honestly like some input from more people running them successfully. TT has provided adequate theoretical argument against them-- i'm just wondering if anyone else has real world data in favor.

Seconded!!!!!

Didn't I ask for that data some pages back?

 

[NickC]

If I had the extra time/money i wouldnt hesitate to do it. Heck most dyno runs only cost about 70 bucks

[BobbyR]

[paulages]

i'd just honestly like some input from more people running them successfully. TT has provided adequate theoretical argument against them-- i'm just wondering if anyone else has real world data in favor.

Seconded!!!!!

Didn't I ask for that data some pages back?

 

don't be so confused lloyd. it's not always an argument...every once in a while someone agrees with you. 

[nilsey]

i'd just honestly like some input from more people running them successfully. TT has provided adequate theoretical argument against them-- i'm just wondering if anyone else has real world data in favor.

Seconded!!!!!

Didn't I ask for that data some pages back?

 

yeah, of course, so i guess i should have wrote "thirded!!!!"

[seaweb11]

Sorry, I'll I have is Ass Data

I just like them, and my bike seems to like them as well      Not sure why

Fun reading though.

[ekim98]

Never had my 750 running without the pods on it. The stock air box was with the bike but not installed and the rubbers were showing there age and one was missing. I got it rejetted on the first try and it runs good in my opinion plus  I like the look better and 3 lbs lighter.

[mlinder]

i'd just honestly like some input from more people running them successfully. TT has provided adequate theoretical argument against them-- i'm just wondering if anyone else has real world data in favor.

Seconded!!!!!

Didn't I ask for that data some pages back?

 

don't be so confused lloyd. it's not always an argument...every once in a while someone agrees with you. 

Hell, I spent a couple pages agreeing with him on many points, and he still thought I was arguing with him

[coyotecowboy]

This may be a stupid question, but has anyone here taken a stock 69 or 70 750 (120 mains, right?) added pods and a 4 into 1 and still needed to rejet?  Form what I've read here, 120 mains seem to be the most used size for a modded 750.
I ask because several pages back (last year) I took the pods off my K2 750 and went back to the stock airbox with a 4-into-1 header.  110 mains, and while it ran better generally the board, it still acted lean on the top end.  Fast forward to this afternoon, I'm changing throttle cables and notice that the airbox may not be sealing up properly.  I decide to try the pods again, put the needle clips in the #5 slot, button her up and take it for a ride.  Too lean, I knew that from the last time.  I need to order jets which got me to thinking, if it was a little lean with the stock airbox and waaaaay lean with the pods, should I go larger than the 120 jets?  Maybe a 125, or a little bigger?

What do you jet jugglers think?

(edit)  Maybe I should just order both, drop in some plug-chop specials (Champion plugs run 'em hard once and throw away) and see where I'm at then.

[shoemanII]

interested reading about jetting for pods/v-stacks with various exhausts over on hondachoppers.com 

[scondon]

Sorry, I'll I have is Ass Data

  Can I borrow that phrase, Seaweb. It's all I have too, and instead of saying "I think" and "it seems" all the time it would sound so much more professional if I could say "according to my Ass Data......."

[edbikerii]

Proctological Performance Measurements

Sorry, I'll I have is Ass Data

  Can I borrow that phrase, Seaweb. It's all I have too, and instead of saying "I think" and "it seems" all the time it would sound so much more professional if I could say "according to my Ass Data......."

[ryder60]

I've recently come into some pods for a 750 but they are very dirty.  I soaked them in hot water and dish detergent but when I look through then I can see faint light through only one of them.  Are they tiast or is there another way to get them clean.  If I put them in the dishwasher I could wake up dead so that's out.  Can anybidy help me?

[plastikjock]

K&N filters can be cleaned using K&N filter cleaner, then re-oiled with K&N filter oil. There should be light visable through them when they are clean.

 

plastikjock

[Kev Nemo]

Never had my 750 running without the pods on it. The stock air box was with the bike but not installed and the rubbers were showing there age and one was missing. I got it rejetted on the first try and it runs good in my opinion plus  I like the look better and 3 lbs lighter.

What size mains?

[sohcpwr]

I'll share my jetting experiance with the pods as well then: 74 cb550 should have been running rich to begin with, I added pods, mac exh, and trimmed the sync screws.  Started with stock jetting, it started to break up at 3/4 throttle. I put in 105 mains and it got better. It has a noticeable stumble/misfire when I roll from 1/8-1/4 throttle at LOW rpm. Higher up in the revs doesn't seem to act up as much. I moved the needles to the bottom notch, this made upper midrange real nice, but my missfire got much worse.  I've deduced its actually running too rich during the miss.  when I pull the choke during the missfire, the engine doesn't hit at all and will die if you leave it on. 

Back to stock 4th clip pos and 110 mains, still a missfire. Runs much better but still seems to make most power when holding the throttle a bit more than half way. I leaned out the airscrews to help cure the miss, didnt seem to help much.

I have to say I'm not sure its pod related, as I've never ridden the bike before I built it. I am syncing the cards after all changes, but its with the mercury kind. Im probably gonna put the stock mains in and airbox and see if it goes away.

Has anyone had to lean out slow jets from running pods?

[754]

I have a theory,

I am thinking that the straight side K&N,s flow better than tapered ones..and that maybe Emgo,s do not flow as well as them.

I ran straight side K&N on a 72 and 73 with a Hooker 4-1 and had little trouble.. I raised the needle a notch. I distinctly rememember my buddies 73 having a slight edge on me if I ran thru the gears with him. Then one day I put 120,s in and it ran a lot crisper and about even with him.. that lasted about 3 days or a week till we hit each other & totalled both bikes!

Then the K&N,s and header went on my next one, the 73.


So A.D.A.S. showed me they were  better than stock airbox.


A.D.A.S.  = Ass Data Aquisition System...