Topic: Pods Thread

[Retro Rocket]

You'll probably only need one of those buttons mate, they put the rest there to screw with your head.... Looks like its working....

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, I must fire it up again soon Mick, I did run a pretty good bead until I started playing with all of those buttons..........

[Retro Rocket]

Ha ha, I must fire it up again soon Mick, I did run a pretty good bead until I started playing with all of those buttons..........

Yeah, you'll have to figure it out or its just a bloody expensive cigarette lighter....

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, I must fire it up again soon Mick, I did run a pretty good bead until I started playing with all of those buttons..........

Yeah, you'll have to figure it out or its just a bloody expensive cigarette lighter....

Yep, and now that I've given up smoking, it's bloody useless!

[micpl]

Hello, I've been following this thread for quite some time but I'm still struggling to get the bike running good. So I thought I'll explain my problem here.

My bike is definitely running lean. I've had it running ok after engine rebuild however it was running very hot. I can't do WOT tests yet since it has new rings and I don't want to seize it since its realy getting hot.

Bike is 77 550k with PD46A carbs, MAC 4in1, Uni air filter, stock airbox, Dyna S with stock coils.

The bike was running ok, no problems with idle etc however was overheating, I've checked boots for the carbs for leaks and they seem ok. Afert the initial run 2 header pipes showed signs of Overheating (brand new pipes, cyl 2 and 4 got tan color, 1 and 3 no color change). I was running the bike and it ran much better wit choke fully pulled.

I've pulled out carbs today and cleaned them and got complete rebuild (slow and main jets, new needles, new needle sets etc), new boots on the engine side (with a bit of luck maybe I'll find the aibox side ones but as someone already mentioned those were part of the aibox and not sold separately)

Manual says that for 550K3 neede should be on 3rd groove (2nd groove for 550) for this carb. (appendix of the manual for 550k3) . Previous needles were set on 2 nd groove.

I had limited time to start the bike, I had iddle screws 1,5 turns out and the bike wouldn't start, Ive replaced Uni filter with stock one and got similar results, then I've pulled out air filter and put a cloth in the intake mostly blocking it, bike started and got the idle working ok. Right now I'm running 90 main jets, I was planing to go 95 but need to get feedback after carb rebuild.

One thing that is noticeable is tha throttle response got much much better in mid range (engine picking up revs much quicker) after rebuld, however when I pull out full choke on warmed engine it has no effect.

I know this is a lot of information but I'm not experience menchanic and this is my first carb rebuild and try to get carbs runnig good.

The biggest thing is why the bike doesnt run on stock filter and runs on blocked aibox, however puling choke has no effect. I'm going to try again fresh tomorrow and check everything again for intake leaks etc and maybe try to get it on the road and see how it runs, carbs were bench synched, I havend plugged vacumeters yet since there is no point until at least it runs kind of ok.

Quick question on the iddle needles, the have a spring, washer and rubber oring, what is the order of thise, oring goes between spring and washer or it should be oring, washer, spring?

I'll try to post some more information tomorrow after I get some time and try to run it.

Thank you, any help would be appreciated.

Update:
Ok I cant get the bike to start normally, When I spry something flamable into airbox it will start running then it iddles ok one it warms up. However slightest touch ouf throttle or trying to increase idle with iddle screw above 2k the bike starts to cut of, I got it to above 5k on spray and when stop it just dies, no iddle I've pulled out the plugs and they were fouled so I'm running rich, I think it might to do with needle raised by one groove to 3rd position from 2nd (from top), However that just seems to quickly to needle to kick in. Maybe the new needle is slightly different and allowing more gas ealier. I'm going to raise it a bit and see how that goes. I think the pilot jet is ok since it iddles, but again trying to touch the throtle by 1/20 in will cause the bike to bog and if I dont release it it will die. I've pulled out the filter and try playing with a cloth with some success, got the bike reving on gas but as soon as I let go it shuts of it just looks that  its going super rich if needle is even slightly pulled up

Thanks

[TwoTired]

Micpl,
Your post has nothing to do with pods.  You should re-post it, or have it moved by a moderator, to its own thread topic heading in the SOHC4/bikes forum for technical help.  I'll post some thoughts once that is done.

[P.abrera]

Planning on trying the emgo pods on my 76 550k build (i like the cleaner look...guilty as charged ). What about an approach where you choke-down the airflow of the pod. A buddy described what was essentially something like velocity stack made from pvc placed inside the filter. Shortened, lengthened to suit the tune your going for? Anyone else tried something similar?


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[scottly]

What about an approach where you choke-down the airflow of the pod. A buddy described what was essentially something like velocity stack made from pvc placed inside the filter. Shortened, lengthened to suit the tune your going for?

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The problem with choking the airflow is that it doesn't compensate for load or RPM. It may be like a broken clock: it will always, but only, be correct twice a day.

[Thamuz]

I tried this with the k&n's I have.  It makes some improvement, but not enough when it comes to a crosswind or not having your knees in the right spot. 

Go for the airbox.  Or get the plenum and put a filter on that. 

[P.abrera]

What about an approach where you choke-down the airflow of the pod. A buddy described what was essentially something like velocity stack made from pvc placed inside the filter. Shortened, lengthened to suit the tune your going for?

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The problem with choking the airflow is that it doesn't compensate for load or RPM. It may be like a broken clock: it will always, but only, be correct twice a day.

Trying to wrap my brain around the concept... Isnt the airbox a constant  volume of air throughout the rev range as well? Or does something there regulate the airflow ratio?

Newbie here, Im still in the top end teardown, havent gotten around to taking the airbox/filter apart.


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[TwoTired]

Trying to wrap my brain around the concept... Isnt the airbox a constant  volume of air throughout the rev range as well?

No, not even close.  The engine demands more volume of air as the RPM increases.

Or does something there regulate the airflow ratio?

In all induction devices, there are the physics of aerodynamic drag, and orifice/duct restriction profiles.  But, the stock air box induction has been designed to minimize those effects within the space provided.  Some pretty smart people made that.  It still amazes me that people would simply throw all that detailed engineering away because of superficial, even artificial emotional reasons.

Also, often overlooked, is the pressure applied to the jet tubes within the carburetors.  It is NOT just about air flow or air volume.  Fuel delivery is a function of the pressure applied to each end of the fuel metering jet tubes.  The venturi effect (relating to air volume) is only one part of the pressure source applied to the jet tubes.  A running engine sucks!  It creates a negative pressure relative to the outside atmospheric pressure and drives what makes the carbs work at all.

[crazypj]

LOL, I've given up trying to explain it to people

[BobbyR]

What about an approach where you choke-down the airflow of the pod. A buddy described what was essentially something like velocity stack made from pvc placed inside the filter. Shortened, lengthened to suit the tune your going for?

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The problem with choking the airflow is that it doesn't compensate for load or RPM. It may be like a broken clock: it will always, but only, be correct twice a day.

Trying to wrap my brain around the concept... Isnt the airbox a constant  volume of air throughout the rev range as well? Or does something there regulate the airflow ratio?

Newbie here, Im still in the top end teardown, havent gotten around to taking the airbox/filter apart.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is nothing in the airbox to regulate the flow. The airbox was designed to allow as much air flow through as the engine needs.

[Stoli]

... What about an approach where you choke-down the airflow of the pod. A buddy described what was essentially something like velocity stack made from pvc placed inside the filter. Shortened, lengthened to suit the tune your going for? Anyone else tried something similar?

A while ago I stumbled upon a thread in a different forum where some guys were experimenting with that type of thing. They did some fairly comprehensive testing using designs like honeycomb, etc in an effort to produce a more laminar airflow but in the end it wasn't very successful. Thamuz summed it up well. There is more to it than just the stacks. Even if you could reproduce the stock velocity stacks inside a pod filter, you still have the turbulence/pressure issues which only the airbox solves.

The K&N pods have a "boot" that sort of resembles a velocity stack. The APE pods are very similar but they lack a slight taper on the end of the internal "horn" that is only found on the K&Ns. Not sure if that makes any difference at all (the taper is very slight). The EMGOs and other cheap ones have a boot that least resembles a velocity stack (just a short flange with rough edges).

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the pods, but it is what it is. I don't mind sacrificing a little function to achieve the form I want.

[drewfunk]

Figured i'd chime in with my recent experience with pods.

I've heard many people say that the cheap K&N knock off's are terrible and will make tuning a nightmare. The 72 CB i bought had the generic pods along with a kerker 4 into1. It ran alright, but the idle wasnt very consistent and it stumbled a bit in the midrange. I didnt want to spring 150 bucks on K&Ns so i bought some UNI filters since i've had good luck on my XS650 with them and they've been recommended quite a bit. Well hot damn, the difference was immediately noticeable. It revs out to redline much smoother and quicker, and idles much more consistently. I highly recommend the UNIs.

[P.abrera]

All good guys, learning a lot here. Thanks


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[Retro Rocket]

Figured i'd chime in with my recent experience with pods.

I've heard many people say that the cheap K&N knock off's are terrible and will make tuning a nightmare. The 72 CB i bought had the generic pods along with a kerker 4 into1. It ran alright, but the idle wasnt very consistent and it stumbled a bit in the midrange. I didnt want to spring 150 bucks on K&Ns so i bought some UNI filters since i've had good luck on my XS650 with them and they've been recommended quite a bit. Well hot damn, the difference was immediately noticeable. It revs out to redline much smoother and quicker, and idles much more consistently. I highly recommend the UNIs.

Not being nasty but this post is typical of guys trying to justify using pods, your bike is either tuned well or not, there's no in between. When you thought your bike was running "alright", it obviously wasn't, it tells me that you didn't know how well these bikes run when tuned PROPERLY, now it runs better with the UNI filters you still have nothing to base it on or to compare it too, i garantee you its still not running as well as it could. These old engines run like a sowing machine when tuned well, in my experience, most people that "think" their bike runs well with pods really have no idea and are basing that on the fact that the induction noise is louder so it must be going faster, its usually the exact opposite. This all relates to stock carbs on the 750/4, different carbs require different approaches, different style pods will have a different effect some are far better than others, and the ones with stacks are better, but there's nothing better on the stock carbs than the airbox, modify that for more flow ..

[Stoli]

Not being nasty but this post is typical of guys trying to justify using pods, your bike is either tuned well or not, there's no in between. When you thought your bike was running "alright", it obviously wasn't, it tells me that you didn't know how well these bikes run when tuned PROPERLY, now it runs better with the UNI filters you still have nothing to base it on or to compare it too, i garantee you its still not running as well as it could. These old engines run like a sowing machine when tuned well, in my experience, most people that "think" their bike runs well with pods really have no idea and are basing that on the fact that the induction noise is louder so it must be going faster, its usually the exact opposite. This all relates to stock carbs on the 750/4, different carbs require different approaches, different style pods will have a different effect some are far better than others, and the ones with stacks are better, but there's nothing better on the stock carbs than the airbox, modify that for more flow ..

Why can't you accept the fact that some of us are OK without perfectly tuned bikes? And has it ever occurred to you that some of us have ridden a bike with an airbox AND a bike with pods? My son and I go riding together all the time. He has a 77F with an airbox and I have a 78K with pods. We swap bikes all the time. It's not really that noticeable. We have fun and both bikes get a lot of comments and start a lot of conversations. That is what it is all about. Yes, they designed the bike with an airbox but pods can work fine after some rejetting. You can ride a sewing machine if you like but some of us like to express ourselves and get a little more creative.  If my bike bogs down when I snap the throttle during a torrential downpour with 30kt wind gusts, I'm OK with that. When you blow past me with your airbox in that situation, I salute you for your practicality.

[drewfunk]

Figured i'd chime in with my recent experience with pods.

I've heard many people say that the cheap K&N knock off's are terrible and will make tuning a nightmare. The 72 CB i bought had the generic pods along with a kerker 4 into1. It ran alright, but the idle wasnt very consistent and it stumbled a bit in the midrange. I didnt want to spring 150 bucks on K&Ns so i bought some UNI filters since i've had good luck on my XS650 with them and they've been recommended quite a bit. Well hot damn, the difference was immediately noticeable. It revs out to redline much smoother and quicker, and idles much more consistently. I highly recommend the UNIs.

Not being nasty but this post is typical of guys trying to justify using pods, your bike is either tuned well or not, there's no in between. When you thought your bike was running "alright", it obviously wasn't, it tells me that you didn't know how well these bikes run when tuned PROPERLY, now it runs better with the UNI filters you still have nothing to base it on or to compare it too, i garantee you its still not running as well as it could. These old engines run like a sowing machine when tuned well, in my experience, most people that "think" their bike runs well with pods really have no idea and are basing that on the fact that the induction noise is louder so it must be going faster, its usually the exact opposite. This all relates to stock carbs on the 750/4, different carbs require different approaches, different style pods will have a different effect some are far better than others, and the ones with stacks are better, but there's nothing better on the stock carbs than the airbox, modify that for more flow ..

That was a pretty assuming and condescending post. I'm not a "typical guy trying to justify pods". All i did was share an experience completely relevant to the conversation. I've ridden plenty of bikes, stock and modified. I know what a good running bike runs like. I didnt rip the airbox off my CB, slap some 4 dollar pods on, and listen to the intake noise thinking i was the coolest kid around. I bought the bike without the airbox, replaced the cheapo filters, and it runs pretty #$%*ing fantastic now. I'm not telling anyone to ditch their airbox, i'm just reaffirming the fact that good filters will make a big difference in how a bike runs.

[Retro Rocket]

Figured i'd chime in with my recent experience with pods.

I've heard many people say that the cheap K&N knock off's are terrible and will make tuning a nightmare. The 72 CB i bought had the generic pods along with a kerker 4 into1. It ran alright, but the idle wasnt very consistent and it stumbled a bit in the midrange. I didnt want to spring 150 bucks on K&Ns so i bought some UNI filters since i've had good luck on my XS650 with them and they've been recommended quite a bit. Well hot damn, the difference was immediately noticeable. It revs out to redline much smoother and quicker, and idles much more consistently. I highly recommend the UNIs.

Not being nasty but this post is typical of guys trying to justify using pods, your bike is either tuned well or not, there's no in between. When you thought your bike was running "alright", it obviously wasn't, it tells me that you didn't know how well these bikes run when tuned PROPERLY, now it runs better with the UNI filters you still have nothing to base it on or to compare it too, i garantee you its still not running as well as it could. These old engines run like a sowing machine when tuned well, in my experience, most people that "think" their bike runs well with pods really have no idea and are basing that on the fact that the induction noise is louder so it must be going faster, its usually the exact opposite. This all relates to stock carbs on the 750/4, different carbs require different approaches, different style pods will have a different effect some are far better than others, and the ones with stacks are better, but there's nothing better on the stock carbs than the airbox, modify that for more flow ..

That was a pretty assuming and condescending post. I'm not a "typical guy trying to justify pods". All i did was share an experience completely relevant to the conversation. I've ridden plenty of bikes, stock and modified. I know what a good running bike runs like. I didnt rip the airbox off my CB, slap some 4 dollar pods on, and listen to the intake noise thinking i was the coolest kid around. I bought the bike without the airbox, replaced the cheapo filters, and it runs pretty #$%*ing fantastic now. I'm not telling anyone to ditch their airbox, i'm just reaffirming the fact that good filters will make a big difference in how a bike runs.

It wasn't condescending at all, like i said, in my experience with these bikes, and i've owned and built lots of them and so have some of my friends, my post wasn't based on an assumption at all, it was based on what i know works on these bikes over 35 odd years of working on them, your bike runs fantastic compared to what..? a well tuned CB.? Fantastic overstates whats actually happening, That was my point. I know from your posts that you are happy with what you have and thats fine, it runs better than it did with cheaper pods, i'm not debating that at all. I have seen this written over and over again on this forum and as a general consensus, most people wouldn't really have a clue, Thats a fact not meant to be condescending at all, are we all tuning experts, i doubt it. I know that some pods are better than others, its already been discussed over and over again and i've said it here as well, pods are a compromise, the stock induction system is far better with stock carbs as the induction system was designed as a whole, the Keihins on these bikes work best with an airbox because they need the "still air" the airbox provides as well as the velocity stacks and will "always" run better than pods throughout the whole rev range, there are lots of relevant reasons why, Have a look at the amount of guys here that thought their bike ran well with pods after lots of screwing around, only to find out, after fitting the original airbox that in fact the airbox is far more efficient and far easier to tune with, thats my point in general....No need to get upset, i'm only pointing out the facts...

[P.abrera]

Figured i'd chime in with my recent experience with pods.

I've heard many people say that the cheap K&N knock off's are terrible and will make tuning a nightmare. The 72 CB i bought had the generic pods along with a kerker 4 into1. It ran alright, but the idle wasnt very consistent and it stumbled a bit in the midrange. I didnt want to spring 150 bucks on K&Ns so i bought some UNI filters since i've had good luck on my XS650 with them and they've been recommended quite a bit. Well hot damn, the difference was immediately noticeable. It revs out to redline much smoother and quicker, and idles much more consistently. I highly recommend the UNIs.

Not being nasty but this post is typical of guys trying to justify using pods, your bike is either tuned well or not, there's no in between. When you thought your bike was running "alright", it obviously wasn't, it tells me that you didn't know how well these bikes run when tuned PROPERLY, now it runs better with the UNI filters you still have nothing to base it on or to compare it too, i garantee you its still not running as well as it could. These old engines run like a sowing machine when tuned well, in my experience, most people that "think" their bike runs well with pods really have no idea and are basing that on the fact that the induction noise is louder so it must be going faster, its usually the exact opposite. This all relates to stock carbs on the 750/4, different carbs require different approaches, different style pods will have a different effect some are far better than others, and the ones with stacks are better, but there's nothing better on the stock carbs than the airbox, modify that for more flow ..

Being new to the scene, im only just learning what a contentious subject this can be in the spirit of discussion and learning though, how does one modify the airbox for more flow? And does that mean jetting changes to go along with that too?


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[P.abrera]

Why can't you accept the fact that some of us are OK without perfectly tuned bikes? And has it ever occurred to you that some of us have ridden a bike with an airbox AND a bike with pods? My son and I go riding together all the time. He has a 77F with an airbox and I have a 78K with pods. We swap bikes all the time. It's not really that noticeable. We have fun and both bikes get a lot of comments and start a lot of conversations. That is what it is all about. Yes, they designed the bike with an airbox but pods can work fine after some rejetting. You can ride a sewing machine if you like but some of us like to express ourselves and get a little more creative.  If my bike bogs down when I snap the throttle during a torrential downpour with 30kt wind gusts, I'm OK with that. When you blow past me with your airbox in that situation, I salute you for your practicality.

Hey Stoli,

Id be interested to know what pod/jet combo youre running...just to have some starting points.


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[P.abrera]

Figured i'd chime in with my recent experience with pods.

I've heard many people say that the cheap K&N knock off's are terrible and will make tuning a nightmare. The 72 CB i bought had the generic pods along with a kerker 4 into1. It ran alright, but the idle wasnt very consistent and it stumbled a bit in the midrange. I didnt want to spring 150 bucks on K&Ns so i bought some UNI filters since i've had good luck on my XS650 with them and they've been recommended quite a bit. Well hot damn, the difference was immediately noticeable. It revs out to redline much smoother and quicker, and idles much more consistently. I highly recommend the UNIs.

Also be interested to know your starting point for jetting, drewfunk


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[Retro Rocket]

Not being nasty but this post is typical of guys trying to justify using pods, your bike is either tuned well or not, there's no in between. When you thought your bike was running "alright", it obviously wasn't, it tells me that you didn't know how well these bikes run when tuned PROPERLY, now it runs better with the UNI filters you still have nothing to base it on or to compare it too, i garantee you its still not running as well as it could. These old engines run like a sowing machine when tuned well, in my experience, most people that "think" their bike runs well with pods really have no idea and are basing that on the fact that the induction noise is louder so it must be going faster, its usually the exact opposite. This all relates to stock carbs on the 750/4, different carbs require different approaches, different style pods will have a different effect some are far better than others, and the ones with stacks are better, but there's nothing better on the stock carbs than the airbox, modify that for more flow ..

Why can't you accept the fact that some of us are OK without perfectly tuned bikes? And has it ever occurred to you that some of us have ridden a bike with an airbox AND a bike with pods? My son and I go riding together all the time. He has a 77F with an airbox and I have a 78K with pods. We swap bikes all the time. It's not really that noticeable. We have fun and both bikes get a lot of comments and start a lot of conversations. That is what it is all about. Yes, they designed the bike with an airbox but pods can work fine after some rejetting. You can ride a sewing machine if you like but some of us like to express ourselves and get a little more creative.  If my bike bogs down when I snap the throttle during a torrential downpour with 30kt wind gusts, I'm OK with that. When you blow past me with your airbox in that situation, I salute you for your practicality.

Stoli, i don't care what you do, honestly, my comments are meant for the op who "doesn't know "... My sewing machines {CB's}are 900cc, 970cc and 1000cc and all will run airboxes for obvious reasons, even the 1000 with fuel injection. My comments aren't meant to stop anyone from using whatever they want, its to inform the OP as to what is actually better and, for someone not that proficient at tuning, the simplest method of having a good running bike, use what you want, thats not the point of this thread....

Figured i'd chime in with my recent experience with pods.

I've heard many people say that the cheap K&N knock off's are terrible and will make tuning a nightmare. The 72 CB i bought had the generic pods along with a kerker 4 into1. It ran alright, but the idle wasnt very consistent and it stumbled a bit in the midrange. I didnt want to spring 150 bucks on K&Ns so i bought some UNI filters since i've had good luck on my XS650 with them and they've been recommended quite a bit. Well hot damn, the difference was immediately noticeable. It revs out to redline much smoother and quicker, and idles much more consistently. I highly recommend the UNIs.

Not being nasty but this post is typical of guys trying to justify using pods, your bike is either tuned well or not, there's no in between. When you thought your bike was running "alright", it obviously wasn't, it tells me that you didn't know how well these bikes run when tuned PROPERLY, now it runs better with the UNI filters you still have nothing to base it on or to compare it too, i garantee you its still not running as well as it could. These old engines run like a sowing machine when tuned well, in my experience, most people that "think" their bike runs well with pods really have no idea and are basing that on the fact that the induction noise is louder so it must be going faster, its usually the exact opposite. This all relates to stock carbs on the 750/4, different carbs require different approaches, different style pods will have a different effect some are far better than others, and the ones with stacks are better, but there's nothing better on the stock carbs than the airbox, modify that for more flow ..

Being new to the scene, im only just learning what a contentious subject this can be in the spirit of discussion and learning though, how does one modify the airbox for more flow? And does that mean jetting changes to go along with that too?


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Branden has a good build thread on this site with a well modified airbox, i'm on my way out now but when i get back i will post a link to his build....

[Stoli]

Sorry Retro, I just thought that drewfunk's post was rather helpful as he was passing on his experience with UNI pods and your intentions aside, there is no question your reply was condescending, assuming, and not very helpful. You have over 14,000 posts and I have no doubt that most are very helpful but maybe it's time to step down off your pedestal, throw back a Fosters or two and actually read what you are typing before you click the Post button. Oh, and as far as not caring what I do, you're in good company.