Author Topic: Pods Thread  (Read 134894 times)

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traveler

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Re: pods v standard air box.
« Reply #475 on: June 14, 2010, 03:22:57 pm »
Thanks Mike!

Turns out my local shop didn't have Dynojet 104s in stock, but they had some Keihin 105 take-offs instead.  Probably came off a CB750!  I went with these.  I guess I'd rather be 1 size too rich than burn up my engine, plus I didn't want to wait another week for shipping.

She's just about perfect now.  She idles nice and smooth at 1000 if desired, no flat spots, no pinging on regular gas, pulls like a demon from a stop, pulls very strong right up to redline in any gear.  I even surprised the heck out of myself pulling out into highway traffic a few minutes ago at WOT.  There was definitely too much traffic today to do a top speed run, but she easily pulls up to 90mph and has LOTS of steam left.

Here's my setup for jetting my 1977 CB550K:

77 CB 550 K
26,468 miles
MAC 4-1
Emgo pods oiled with Uni filter oil [see below]
PD46C "lean burn" carbs
105 Keihin mains
stock E2349F needles in 2nd position from top (2nd leanest -- stock position!)
42 pilot jets (stock)
Idle Mixture Screws 2.5 turns out
float height ~14mm
67A Throttle valves (stock) [EDIT: added 8/16/07]
NGK D7EA spark plugs w/about 4,000 miles - stock gap.
Dyna S Ignition
Dyna 5 Ohm coils and wires (with non-resistor caps)
Timed statically to stock advance per Dyna S instructions
87 octane gasoline (with up to 10% ethanol warning on pump)
My elevation is about 200 ft. above sea level.

Temps after (slightly fun) run:  Right side bank #4 at base gasket 278F, at head gasket 303F, ambient ~85F.

Thanks to everybody!

Ed

[EDIT to include information on the pods I used in one central location]
Go to http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/.  Look under "Fuel System Parts" on the left menu, then click on "Air Filters" in the main frame, then "Pod Filters".  You'll see that unlike the K&Ns, these are conical rather than cylindrical, thus allowing more clearance.  Might just solve your problem.  At $10 each, I think they are much less expensive than the K&Ns too.  Don't forget to get yourself filter oil.  I think even PepBoys sells K&N filter cleaning and oiling kits.

Don't believe what they say about not needing to re-jet.  At least my 550K with PD46C carbs DEFINITELY needed rejetting.  I also have a MAC 4-1 exhaust, which advertises the same "no need for rejetting", though.  Could be that both the original 4-4 exhaust and the stock airbox are very restrictive.


I haven't been working on this for the past couple of weeks as I've had other things on my plate.

I've still got 106 mains in my bike, which work well, but I feel may be just slightly too rich.  I get the slightest bit of blubbering at WOT above 7000 RPM, and seem to top out at about 95mph (I may be chickening out due to traffic considerations).  My 0-3/4 throttle is excellent, with needles at 2nd groove from top.

I'm on my way to a local shop to try and get DJ-104 or Keihin 105 mains right now.  I'm tired of waiting a week for each delivery of jets from Dynojet, and paying too much for shipping.  Dynojet wouldn't throw them in the US Mail for $.41 and two days.
It sounds like you are just about there. The 104's will probably do the trick IMO.

Sounds like one way for me to try.

Offline Nikkisixx

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #476 on: June 14, 2010, 04:03:04 pm »
I did not read all 20 pages of this thread, mea colpa if this was mentioned...

At a recent rally and bike show I noticed this on a well known bike, it ads to the cool factor of pods but not necessarily the legitimacy.  I guess naysayers would pass on this particular bike  ;)

It is a proven fact that modifying a SOHC Honda in any way will bring on the apocalypse.

Offline CBGhia

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #477 on: June 14, 2010, 06:43:57 pm »
Pods work very differently on twins or even twin carb'd bikes.  The biggest problem is the uneven amount of air given to the two middle carbs.

I sure wouldnt turn down a Vincent though.
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Offline Kemp

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #478 on: July 18, 2010, 01:16:09 pm »
I'm trying pods on my cafe build '76 CB550F. I'm using the Uni Pods as they are smaller in diameter and shorter in length than the EMGO. With the Uni I don't have any issue with frame clearance. I have made the following jet changes to the stock carbs (couldn't find a stamped carb "type" on the body so assume they're stock Keihin 069A). I bought Keyster carb kits for the CB550K 74-76 which have slightly different carb internals. I used the stock "F" needle's as the Keyster kit's were thicker with less taper and I didn't want that complication added on. The slow jets were the same at #38 and for main jet I used aftermarket 110's. I also raised the needle to clip #3 which is one increment richer than stock. Air screws are set at 1 1/2 turns out, carbs sync'd with vacuum gauges. I'm using the stock F 4-1 header pipe and what looks like a stock replacement aftermarket muffler (same shape) with the end cap holes drilled a touch oversize for a richer sound. I did not oil the filters and took it out for a first ride last night. First, it starts immediately on full choke and then accepts no choke with hardly any warm up. Idles smoothly at 1000rpm and returns to idle quickly when blipping the throttle. Throttle response feels crisp while blipping in neutral. On the road the bike pulls well from idle up through the revs, but maybe not accelerating as hard as other 550's I have. Backing off throttle from wide open when accelerating through the gears does not increase acceleration. There is a stumble on picking up the revs when down shifting so that's not smooth at all. I'm going to try it again soon to get a better impression. I'll oil the carbs and adjust air screws to get optimum idle first. The stumble is irksome!

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #479 on: July 19, 2010, 07:52:17 pm »
I did not read all 20 pages of this thread, mea colpa if this was mentioned...

At a recent rally and bike show I noticed this on a well known bike, it ads to the cool factor of pods but not necessarily the legitimacy.  I guess naysayers would pass on this particular bike  ;)



Not at all, Vincents (and many other bikes of the era) never had any sort of air filter fitted to them when new, so the "rock strainers" on that one will considerably help with the engine's longevity, and shouldn't affect it's state of tune. ;D
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So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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Offline vern401

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #480 on: July 21, 2010, 02:22:45 am »
When I put pods on one of my bikes I set the carbs up with no filters first. I did not change the jets. I did a thourough cleaning of the carbs, and set the floats & pilots by the book. The I synced the carbs with no filters on them. took for a test run and it did cut out on the higher RPM. Added the PODS and resynced the carbs.... Yes it did change the sync. The bike now runs fine in all gears and speeds.

One big note to this. They are not CV carbs on that bike. I'll be trying it on one with CV carbs soon.
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1982 KZ550C-3

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #481 on: July 21, 2010, 04:44:23 am »
You're gonna have fun putting pods on CV's mate, they're a lot more susceptible to lean running than slide carbs, my GS1000 Suzuki's won't "pull" under load even if I just leave the lid off the airbox! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Kemp

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #482 on: July 21, 2010, 09:41:08 am »
With my CB550 I disassembled and thoroughly cleaned the carbs with an industrial carb cleaning unit. I replaced all the jets with new pieces except the needle jet and needle which I had to re-use. The engine got a complete tune (valve adjust, cam chain adj, points and timing. Once the carbs were assembled they were synced with vacuum gauges Here are the carb specs for my 1976 Honda CB550F with revised jetting for running the Unipods.

Main jet - 110
pilot - #38 (stock)
Needle - 3rd clip (one notch richer than stock)
air screw - 1.5 turns out.

After my latest test ride I found that the engine was suffering a bit of vapor lock so I fixed that and also I was off a bit on timing on cyl 2/3 (5 degrees advanced or so). Made that fix also. Reving the bike in neutral you can see blk smoke from the exhaust, not heavy but noticeable. The bike does run better, a bit smoother than my last post with a bit less stumble when you open the throttle. I still think it hasn't got quite the jump it should although it did pull strongly without hesitation in 5th to an indicated 100mph (roll on from 60mph, wide open throttle) with bike still accelerating. The caburation is still a bit fluffy from the off and on steady throttle with little load it tends to hunt. At highway speeds it seems good, smooth pick up.

I'm going to try just dropping main jet to #100 which is slightly richer than stock and just see what that does. I'm trying to find some #105 main jets just in case. A little confused as to what is really the issue (main or needle position) as on top the bike seems okay but the reality is that it is rich throughout. Haven't checked plug color yet but will before the next changes. Any opinions or advice out there guys!!

Offline Kemp

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #483 on: July 22, 2010, 11:27:43 pm »
Latest on my CB550F Unipods jetting results. I dropped the main jets to #100 (stock is #98), needle set at 3rd notch which is one richer than stock, air screws at 1.5 turns out, stock #38 low speed jet. I used foam filter oil on the unipods to get them set up as designed. Test ride showed improved throttle response, much more like stock with less of a fluffy, burbly feel. Almost as good as stock with just slight hesitation when you hit the throttle, quite driveable in heavy traffic, idles well. Did a midnight high speed test on highway. Good roll on in 5th gear, pulls well and was able to hit an indicated 110mph which is very good for these little guys. Sort of felt that acceleration improved when throttle was closed a bit from wide open in top gear at high rpm. Also under heavy load, in top gear engine seemed to be detonating or "pinging" just slightly. Looking at the plugs was disheartening. They are NGK DR8ES which is one heat range cooler than stock and were black and sooty. Not wet, sooty as in too rich. Next test will be too drop the needles back to the stock #2 notch to clean up the rich running indication on the plugs. At that point the bike will have back to stock jetting except the main jets will be #100 instead of the stock #98. I will leave in the DR8ES plugs.

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #484 on: July 23, 2010, 09:00:04 am »
I had a question about the stock jet setup for a 77 550 F. My manual says the slow jet is 40 and the main is 100. However most people here say the stock is slow 38 main 98. Can anyone shed a little light on this situation? I set up Uni pods and bench synced my carbs and I am running really rich and I am wondering which way to go with my needle jet setting and what size main jet to install. Oh the joy of tinkering with pods. Thanks.
Tear it down.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #485 on: July 23, 2010, 10:01:39 am »
I had a question about the stock jet setup for a 77 550 F. My manual says the slow jet is 40 and the main is 100.

Which manual is lying to you?  Not that it really matters,  It would just be nice to know.

Stock jetting only applies if you have the stock muffler and the stock induction set up, as that is what internal metering was set to accommodate.

Either learn to read spark plugs and find a test track to check their condition at all the throttle settings, or take it to a dyno and get a fuel map readout.

The third method is to just keep changing things until you either tire of the effort or the bike runs "well enough" to stop making changes.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #486 on: July 23, 2010, 11:56:33 am »
Which manual is lying to you?

Its the Clymer manual. On page 113, the exploded carb diagram.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #487 on: July 23, 2010, 12:02:47 pm »
Which manual is lying to you?

Its the Clymer manual. On page 113, the exploded carb diagram.

Yeah, that's why My Clymers have urine stains on them.  Want model information? Use the Honda shop manual with the supplements.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #488 on: July 23, 2010, 12:05:02 pm »
TwoTired, your word is as good as gold on this forum. I will find myself an Honda shop manual, and, if I could find a stock airbox and inexpensive muffler, I would be going that route. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get my hands on one for a price I can afford.
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Offline Kemp

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #489 on: July 23, 2010, 03:06:22 pm »
#38 pilot and #98 main are what's listed by Honda as the jets in the 75-77 CB550F. So what exactly are the specs in your carbs? Is your float level set correctly? Are the jets new or cleaned, is your needle and seat in good condition or is it leaking. Are you sure all the jets and orfices in the carbs are clear. If you just clean carbs in sonic bath or industrial carb cleaner the passages will often still be blocked. I squirt a little gas into each orfice (all jets out of carb) and blow compressed air through them to make sure the gas comes out and passage is clear. You need to make sure all the little holes in your jets are clear also.

Offline xedge4lifex

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #490 on: September 13, 2010, 02:29:16 pm »
76 cb550k 4-2 emgo stock jets 1 1/2 turns out bench synced by 1/2 turn out from when the slide bottoms out, not the slide screw. starts up great, when i go to sync i cant get below 3k or the bike dies, i can slowly get the bikes carbs around 5psi each, but the bike still wont idle under 2500. ive tried adjusting the air/fuel screw in or out a couple turns slowly 1/2 turn adjustments and i cant seem to find any real balance. either running at 2500 great or not running 1500 idle. ideas?
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #491 on: September 13, 2010, 04:39:24 pm »
Pilot jets not clear.
Pilot circuit not working correctly.

Carbs not vacuum synced.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline xedge4lifex

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #492 on: September 13, 2010, 06:56:49 pm »
Pilot jets not clear.
Pilot circuit not working correctly.

Carbs not vacuum synced.

clogged pilots
float height was set by a guy at my shop who only touches carbs
rebuilt the carbs today cleaned tank, new fuel filters
retimed
#4 doesnt fire, or does intermittently, carb has gas, cyl has spark, but #1 pipe gets pretty hot so i think that is working fine
timing adjusted back and forth from retard to advanced
no progress, bike has 1/2 power, still revvs at 3k without idle screw touching
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Offline brandEn

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #493 on: October 06, 2010, 07:09:18 am »
Well I have read this entire thread and exhausted the search function. I don't think I have heard anyone come up with a jetting combo that works on a CB750 F with pods. I am rebuilding my carbs now and wanted to set them up for pods and was looking for tips on jet sizes, needle height, ect as a starting point while I was in there. Anyone help me out? 1978 CB750 F3.

Offline HawaiiMike

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #494 on: October 06, 2010, 11:08:52 am »
Main jet - 110
pilot - #38 (stock)
Needle - 3rd clip (one notch richer than stock)
air screw - 1.5 turns out.
Kemp I am not sure about your needle position.  My CB550F needles are set at 4th notch (#1 being at the top of the needle) and I have a stock airbox with a stock 4 into 1 header and MAC muffler. 

It seems like you might have gone leaner on the needle.  However you have larger mains than stock, maybe that puts your needle in the correct spot.  Please keep us posted, I'd like to know in case I switch to pods someday.

Offline RYNO

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #495 on: October 26, 2010, 07:31:32 am »
Well I figure now that I believe I have my settings I should post them given that I've used this thread/forum to diagnose my issues:
77 CB750K
K&N Pods
4 to 2 drag pipes with custom baffles
#138 mains
3rd notch on the needle (center)
#40 press in slow jets
1 to 1.5 turns on the needles

Offline brandEn

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #496 on: October 26, 2010, 08:08:09 am »
Well I figure now that I believe I have my settings I should post them given that I've used this thread/forum to diagnose my issues:
77 CB750K
K&N Pods
4 to 2 drag pipes with custom baffles
#138 mains
3rd notch on the needle (center)
#40 press in slow jets
1 to 1.5 turns on the needles


Just curious, where did you get your 138 mains from? Did you have much trial and error when jetting?

Offline RYNO

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #497 on: October 26, 2010, 04:29:07 pm »
I got them from a local motorcycle shop (Lee's Cycles).  From what I can gather the main jet type is pretty popular it's the 77-78 slow jets that are hard to find.

I've read all 20 pages of this thread and countless others.  It's taken me about 2.5-3 months to get to this point. I was starting to believe that it couldn't be done.  It would have been a lot easier to just stick with the box.  But the drag pipes would have caused me to re-jet anyway. However, I doubt it would have been as hard to jet for exhaust alone vs the pods and exhaust.

Offline Coyote13

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #498 on: October 26, 2010, 06:09:39 pm »
RYNO, was the stock slow jet in '77 a 35 like in '78? And how diffifult was the swap considering that they're pressed in?
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Pods Thread
« Reply #499 on: October 26, 2010, 06:47:42 pm »
Thats a good honest appraisal....

Mick
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