Topic: Some thoughts on "Biker Build Off"

[Raul CB750K1]

I didn't have the chance to see the series on TV so I'm downloading and watching it now. Until now I've seen up to episode 10, and yesterday's Hotch vs Martin made me think.

This guy Hotch gets a frame, cuts it to install a different swingarm. The guy says "I'm not a metal fabricator so I will outsource the tank to my friend X" but the guy uses some foam to cut the shape. The paint is also outsourced. Only his strange system of pneumatic reservoir to let the bike rest on the frame -so no kickstand needed- seem to be the only original thing on that bike.

So it makes me think: where is the merit of that? You just cut the frame, no calculations made, don't give a damn about ergonomics. But the fabrication is outsourced, so the guy just installs everything. From what I've seen, Indian Larry seemed to be the only one who put his expertise on it; most of the rest where made out of pre-processed chassis or bodywork. What's special about that Mr. Hotch?


Another thing that surprises me is the loose regulations about danger. Bikes are built with plenty or ragged edge and pointed surfaces. In Spain, a headlight visor will not pass MOT inspection because of the potential danger in case of hitting a pedestrian. One thing I know is that if I could choose which bike will hit me while crossing the street, better not be a custom chopper.


After all, it makes me wonder why people pay in excess or 100 grand for a bike that doesn't handle, is a hard ride, have no autonomy and no sport or tourist use, and is designed and/or fabricated by somebody with no engineering knowledge whatsoever.


Raul

[Steve F]

I didn't have the chance to see the series on TV so I'm downloading and watching it now. Until now I've seen up to episode 10, and yesterday's Hotch vs Martin made me think.

This guy Hotch gets a frame, cuts it to install a different swingarm. The guy says "I'm not a metal fabricator so I will outsource the tank to my friend X" but the guy uses some foam to cut the shape. The paint is also outsourced. Only his strange system of pneumatic reservoir to let the bike rest on the frame -so no kickstand needed- seem to be the only original thing on that bike.

So it makes me think: where is the merit of that? You just cut the frame, no calculations made, don't give a damn about ergonomics. But the fabrication is outsourced, so the guy just installs everything. From what I've seen, Indian Larry seemed to be the only one who put his expertise on it; most of the rest where made out of pre-processed chassis or bodywork. What's special about that Mr. Hotch?


Another thing that surprises me is the loose regulations about danger. Bikes are built with plenty or ragged edge and pointed surfaces. In Spain, a headlight visor will not pass MOT inspection because of the potential danger in case of hitting a pedestrian. One thing I know is that if I could choose which bike will hit me while crossing the street, better not be a custom chopper.


After all, it makes me wonder why people pay in excess or 100 grand for a bike that doesn't handle, is a hard ride, have no autonomy and no sport or tourist use, and is designed and/or fabricated by somebody with no engineering knowledge whatsoever.


Raul

People buy those bikes because they're v-twins that are unique.  They won't buy anything but a Harley-based v-twin, and since all other Harleys look alike, no individuality to them (aside from the 387 pounds of bolt-on chrome), they wish to make a statement and the so called "chopper" is the only thing they can turn to.  Pretty sad when you think about it.

[bill440cars]

            Raul & Steve,

                     Go figure on what makes a builder so special, when he basically just assembles parts. A number of them don't even paint them, they just send them out. I mean, you can buy 2 or 3 decent vehicles for that amount. I understand wanting something unique, but I'd rather do it myself and know what I'm sitting on when going for a ride. Guess you can tell that I'm not much on those overpriced jobs either, huh?

                                                              Later on, Bill

[Buber]

After all, it makes me wonder why people pay in excess or 100 grand for a bike that doesn't handle, is a hard ride, have no autonomy and no sport or tourist use, and is designed and/or fabricated by somebody with no engineering knowledge whatsoever.

Raul

Oye, Chico!

Because they HAVE th emoney, and not much more, so they will buy something like that, just to show off - you can't ride it anyway. It simply shows that for us major thing is to have somehting that you can ride (and have a lot of fun doing it) and service yourself. Those choppers are just another fdashion statement for people with too much money. I personally dont hold them in too much of esteem. But that's me

Saludos! (I'm gonna see my frineds in Barcelona soon!)

[Slapguts]

Best episode that illistrates the point is the Salt Flast episode. A guy chops up a Vincent, and manages to make it run the flats SLOWER than the stock bike did in 1955.

[xtalon]

Yes, the term 'builder' is used too loosely.  Most of these guys are assemblers with some design input.  They have one this year where they have a woman competting, but the best I could tell, she only built the tank and everything else was sourced then modified or not.

There are a couple of guys that are definitely builders.  You mention Indian Larry, but there are others.  Chica is one that comes to mind.

Even if the term is used 'loosely', I still enjoy watching the creativeness, whether 'building' or 'designing'.  However, I do have a problem when they match a true 'buillder' up against someone that just throws parts together, no matter how creative.

--xTalon

[Badger 5]

I still enjoy watching the creativeness, whether 'building' or 'designing'

I agree.  Watching folks like Billy Lane and The Detroit Bros. is great.

[bill440cars]

Yes, the term 'builder' is used too loosely.  Most of these guys are assemblers with some design input.  They have one this year where they have a woman competting, but the best I could tell, she only built the tank and everything else was sourced then modified or not.

There are a couple of guys that are definitely builders.  You mention Indian Larry, but there are others.  Chica is one that comes to mind.

Even if the term is used 'loosely', I still enjoy watching the creativeness, whether 'building' or 'designing'.  However, I do have a problem when they match a true 'buillder' up against someone that just throws parts together, no matter how creative.

--xTalon

          That's just about the way I feel about the subject also. I prefer the "Build-Ups" that happen right here. There's more DIY stuff, quite alot of creativeness, All kinds of info is passed on and, for the most part, it's a learning experience for us all (including the builder at times). Besides, I'd feel alot better riding one of our creations.    

          As far as I'm concerned, Billy Lane is off my list, after his hitting and killing that guy on a scooter. No offense there Badger, just my opinion.

                                                  Later on, Bill

[Badger 5]

Billy Lane killed a guy

[Gordon]

Billy Lane killed a guy

Here's some info in a previous thread on the subject.

http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=16278.0

[bill440cars]

          Hey Gordon, Thanks for posting that info on Billy Lane. I wasn't sure how to look it up that quick.
 

                                                         Later on, Bill

[Chris Liston]

Most of those guys are a joke in my opinion.  They "design" a bike for a look.  Nothing more.  95% of them will and probably do handle like poo regardless of what those "builders" say. 

If you guys recall the now gone show Corbin's Ride-On they had the guy from Streetfighters USA on he put it great. Just bashed the so called builders for building crap that doesn't handle at all.

[Jonesy]

There is a "chopper" dealer in the town North of me. On the local bike nites they haul a trailer to a side street, unload about 6 or 7 bikes, then have the empolyees "ride" them up and down Main street a few times to attract attention and then park them for an hour (with pricetags on the handlebars). Later they load them back up and haul them off.

I wouldn't want to buy one knowing that they can't even ride them a few miles...

[andy750]

Went to a show (Hells Angels Bulldog Bash) in England a few years ago and there they have a custom bike competition - only one rule - the bike has to be ridden there before it can enter. Some cool looking bikes as well!

cheers
Andy

[ProTeal55]

My first real bike was a 2003 BigDog "Pitbull" which was a hardtail pro-street style bike.
Even though that bike didn't have any rear suspension, I rode the piss outta that thing as much as I could. Some people (a very small amount) that own these "choppers" do in fact ride them, and ride them hard. The show bike crowd are the ones who spend $50,000 + on a bike that they never ride...

[gerhed]

I do like the look of the bikes by Exile.
Not sure how they ride, but they are "clean".

[bill440cars]

         Just an opinion (mine, of course), but I've got a whole lot more respect for the "Builders" here on this forum than I do for most of those. Besides, I'd be a nervous wreck wondering if it was gonna get scratched and how much it'd cost to get it fixed and all. Personally speaking, I wouldn't have one. I could do wonders with what I've got without spending that kind of money. Okay, I'm through.

                                                Later on, Bill  

[Raul CB750K1]

My first real bike was a 2003 BigDog "Pitbull" which was a hardtail pro-street style bike.
Even though that bike didn't have any rear suspension, I rode the piss outta that thing as much as I could. Some people (a very small amount) that own these "choppers" do in fact ride them, and ride them hard. The show bike crowd are the ones who spend $50,000 + on a bike that they never ride...

I like Big Dog bikes, but they are not "custom" or "choppers". They have the looks, the long forks, the fat tire, but the customizing options include paint job a little else. Big Dog, Roger Bourget etc are "customs from the crate". They are definitely cool to look at, and being rarely seen, you will have looks for sure, but they are somewhere in between a stock Harley and a custom made "chopper".

Furthermore, all those "builders" just get the gleaming engine and throw it in the frame. Just a few take the time to optimize it. After all, a big displacement power plant has power enough to propel the bike, but that's not the point. For them, the engine seems to be a necessary evil. As long as it is chromed or polished and it's a V-twin, anyone will make.

I like Jesse Rooke designs though. That odd-looking front fork is way cool, but again, it's another turn of the screw over the same theme. I just put 300 miles on my 36-year old the other day on a one-day-trip to see the cherry trees blosom. When I was riding I wondered how would I have done it with a chopper like those, with those sculpted gas tanks with 60 mile autonomy, and that open pipes that makes the driver need to wear ear plugs -you can even see it in the TV program sometimes-


Raul

[ProTeal55]

I do like the look of the bikes by Exile.
Not sure how they ride, but they are "clean".

Exile bikes are def. my favorite of the "builders" bikes.
Russel is a great guy, who makes the cleanest/slickest bikes around (my opinion).
I got the chance to ride one of his "bulldozers" once, and I was def. impressed.
The twist grip clutch def. took some getting used to, but I would deal with it to have zero exposed cables on the bars...

[Pinhead]

I went to my local Honda dealer today to get an oil filter and noticed that the only bikes with anything "in-line" were the small twins and the sport bikes. EVERYTHING has a V-twin nowadays. That's why I love my 650. SOHC4 all the way!!

[dusterdude]

joe,if you dont mind saying,how much did that bigdog cost you?

[Ingrid]

If you wanna find out the difference between the builders and the designers, just check out the rear wheels.
Thank got the US highways are mostly straight .
I want to be able to "ride the corners"...

[ProTeal55]

Joe,if you don't mind saying,how much did that bigdog cost you?

I got my bike and cash in trade for my old racecar so I really don't have a real number for ya.
A new 2007 BigDog Pitbull in black is around $32,000 today, then when you start adding paint and what not the price starts to soar.  They are expensive, but they are a blast to ride (117cid/6-speed), and are really well built (ALLOT better than those American Ironhorse pieces o crap)...

[SD750F]

I agree about Exile Motorcycles and I think Russel Mitchell is probably the only designer on the show who can make a non-stretched bike with the proper geometry but still fit the general chopper theme. And his minimal designs remind me of most of the Cafe style bikes... Just a personal observation.

But I think the show should go one step further, and I call for all the forum members to write the Biker Build Off producers with this idea... Have Mitchell and another builder start with a SOHC CB750 and build a bike from there... What do you guys think?

Scott

[Raul CB750K1]

I agree about Exile Motorcycles and I think Russel Mitchell is probably the only designer on the show who can make a non-stretched bike with the proper geometry but still fit the general chopper theme. And his minimal designs remind me of most of the Cafe style bikes... Just a personal observation.

But I think the show should go one step further, and I call for all the forum members to write the Biker Build Off producers with this idea... Have Mitchell and another builder start with a SOHC CB750 and build a bike from there... What do you guys think?

Scott

Leave the SOHC's alone. If they do it, people out there will hunt for old CB's and price will increase even more.   


Raul