Topic: try to kick it over / start it?

[78cb550k]

i just bought the 78 550! woohoo!
i've about 3-4 days of cleaning to do until i ride it. tires are new, and the electrics work (far as i can tell) so that's nice. i was hoping y'all could help me with whether i should start it or not. i want to ride it down to the shop (2 mile away on mostly residential roads) or not.
the problem is the header, far right as your look straight on. there's two bolts that hold on the finned thing, which keep the two 1/2 rings in place, which secure  the header to the exhaust valve. far as i can tell. one of the two bolts is missing, and the side of the bike is noticeably dirtier and greasier than the other. i'm thinking that a buncha oil leaked out before the PO parked it (been sitting on the kickstand for 2 1/2 years), and i don't want to turn over a rusted cylinder and cock it up more. the oil on the dipstick is real low, not acutally that dirty.
another thing; when i remove the air filter, there looks to be another one underneath it, like an inverted funnel with a wire grate-ish thing on the bottom. the wire gate is rusted out. can i just junk that and get some air filters that bolt right onto the carbs? i think i'd have to rejet the carbs, but i'm going to have a shop do those the first time (first time i've mucked with carburettors, and i don't have a full set of tools/stationary bench right now) so i'd just get them to rejet them if thats the case.

long post, two questions.

thanks for helping me out in advance!!

[78cb550k]

right, pix to follow, my camera is charging!

[750goes]

there is another topic been posted to regarding the tune-up procedures or I think the order in which things might be done - - find that one and have a good read through it - - it might give you a few hints.....good luck..

it is a current topic as well

if I find it I will post back

[750goes]

found it

http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=19582.0

[csendker]

The other filter - the funnel one is the crankcase breather element.  You'll want to keep that if you keep the air filter, if not you can get little filters that screw into where the tube goes.  It's just a regular 'ol polyurethane element, I suspect you could use lawn mower filter stock.

Pods - lots of topics and discussion - do some searches and a whole lot of reading.  Yes, you'll likely have to rejet.  If you go with these, get really good ones to minimize the inherent turbulance they allow.  The airflow into the four carbs becomes somewhat unbalanced depending on the speed and aerodynamics of the bike and you sitting on it.  Lots of guys run them, lots of guys hate them (isn't that a sexist remark?).  Personally, I'm for the stock airbox with a drop-in washable Uni foam replacement filter.  Very little impack on the bike set-up with a lifetime filter that has a bit less resistance thn the stock paper filter.

Starting - not an expert on this, but you may be able to dump something like Marvel Mystery Oil down the plug holes and kick it over a couple of times to get things loosened up and moving.  I would change the oil with a new filter before I even considered starting.  In fact, I've learned that it makes some sense to change all of the fluids.  I'm sure some of the pros will chime in here.

[TwoTired]

As soon as you turn the crankshaft over, it will start sucking on the carbs.  If the jets are clear, gas will flow.  If there is debris in the fuel supply it will plug the jets.

Look in the fuel tank.  Do you see rust?  That's the first thing to fix, if so.  The carbs need clean fuel to operate.

Next, drain the carb float bowls and catch what comes out.  At the bottom of each carb is a drain screw and a hose where the drained fuel comes out.  Remove the hose and put a catch pan there to see if the fuel comes out clean.  For sure, don't try to start the bike until it does come out clean from each carburetor.  If you can't get it to drain there or it never drains clean, then a carb rebuild is one of the first tasks.

After that, if there is oil in the engine, attempted starts in order.

I'm not a fan of PODs, especially on a bike you wish to resurrect and ride as soon as possible.  Get it running with stock components first and then make your changes incrementally thereafter.  Then you know how it is supposed to run, and can make the jetting changes to get the performance back with the mods you've made.  Or, be prepared to extend the patience needed to learn the slow process of carb tuning for induction changes.

Cheers,

[78cb550k]

good news; the carbs are clean!....as far as i can tell.
I turned a little flathead screw on the underside of the carbs (all four), and clear fuel drained out of little nipple thingums.
changed the oil/oil filter, and checked the fuel tank also. no rust. i'm beginning to think i might as well have stolen the bike from the PO, paid $350 for it.
got much to anxious and kicked the engine over a few times. i think i may have a compression issue (or a nervous mind), as it's quite easy to kick it over.
can anyone help me with how hard it should be to turn the engine over with the kick start? i can do it sitting on the seat easily. i'm no weight lifter, but no slouch. i climb mountains and ride bicycles long distance to stay in shape, if that's a measure of strength to help out.
the electric start seems to work, it went "whirrrrrr" while the engine hummed when i found a helpful person with jumpers. but i did it for 1/2 a second.

i'm so damn excited!!!!!!!!!!!!

[78cb550k]

yea, so make sure the flathead screw that seals the bottom of the carbs is tight. mine wasn't. big puddle of fuel. 

[750goes]

you may want to squirt some oil down those cylinders, and check your valve gap before you go too much further..... the low compression you may be feeling can be stuck rings, stuck valves etc... and not having been run in a while a lack of oil around the camshaft area..could be a big problem if you do not check..............and start it straight up....

when you adjust or check your valve clearances put some oil in the valve inspection holes, try and squirt it onto the camshaft if possible..

do a compression check.......let us know the results..........

[csendker]

Kicker- it's got to be in neutral and don't pull in the clutch, the kicker works through the tranny.  It's not a dirtbike.

[Gordon]

Without a frame of reference, it's hard to say, but the 550's are rather easy to kick over.  Neither my 750 or 550 has a working electric start, and when I switch from the 750 to the 550 I always kick way too hard the first time because I'm expecting a lot more resistance. 

[csendker]

I don't have to put much effort into mine, and (except for first thing in the morning) it usually fires right up with the first kick.  When I got the bike, I thought the kicker was broke because I kept pulling in the clutch like on the old dirtbikes I rode.  No resistance and no reaction.  I took several months before someone on here set me straight.  Duh.

[78cb550k]

went down to the garage to admire my oil change and light clean job.
looks like all the oil leaked out. there was a drip off the fins next to the drain plug, it ran down the kickstand, and generally from the shifter side next to the headers was covered in brand new, fresh oil. it was a big puddle, enough that i thought i didn't tighten the drain plug enough. i was in a hurry to get to work, so i tightened the drain plug (not loose but i torqued it slightly more so now it's about the same as a woodscrew) replaced what i thought amount of oil had leaked out, and went to work.
got home from work. more oil on the ground. landlord stops me and has 20 min conversation about changing oil in garage, i explain it's an oil LEAK, not an oil CHANGE.
some guy walked by and simply said "your seals are #$%*, bro."  i got to thinking about that.
i looked around the FAQ and shop manual and i'm pretty sure i'm up #$%* creek. i have resources to pull an engine with (i was planning on doing the carbs when the landlord was gone on sat), and there's enough oil on the ground for a riding lawnmower.
i'm about to haul it to the shop and say "you charge too much money, but i don't have a choice." i spent $200 on tools, oil, filters, battery, etc and all i've done is flush the engine with oil and turn it over twice.
and i can't stop myself from messing with it. my woman says i spent 4 hours on it today. she's right. i thought i was at 15 min.

[mrbreeze]

Aint life grand???

[csendker]

The shifter seals are notorious leakers on these, but it sounds like you have a gusher.  Look here --> http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=8384.msg77571#msg77571

[78cb550k]

i read your thread, sorry you went through that ordeal.
i wish i would've seen your post earlier, i took my bike into the mechanic today.
after my property manager called the owner over to threaten throwing me out for leaking ~2 quarts of oil on his new concrete floor, i pussed out and let west coast GP cycles take it. but they're rebuilding my carbs.
which i took out today and figured out why they drained clean fuel (see above). they were stuck in WOT!!!!!!!!! they're gunked and rusted and i was scared that i'd got it to start. which then confused me. it was idling and the butterfly valve was stuck completely open. good thing i only had it running to 2-3 min.
anyways, yes, it is quite a leaky seal. i got another from David Silver's and also a pan gasket. better safe than sorry.
thanks for the advice and next time i'll do it my damn self.
cheers!

[78cb550k]

completely unrelated, but same bike, same thread.......

i have no title for my bike. the PO never registered it. the owner before that has since moved out of state and effectively disappeared. i have a bill of sale to me from PO, PO from owner before that. i live in california. i have a plate for the bike, sticker for 02.
after two hours of searching google, dmv, and this site, i've out of ideas.

has anyone else worked around this? and now the kicker......in California?

thanks guys

[TwoTired]

Was it ever registered in California?
Does it have a California plate?
Is it currently in the DMV computer system?

If it is not in the system and you have a bill of sale, and it's not on a list of stolen vehicles.  You can bring it to the DMV for VIN number verification, pay fees for the tittle, registration, new plate, etc, and it's then legally yours.

If it IS in the system and has NOT been registered as non-op since 02, then you're going to be paying several hundred dollars in late registration fees in addition to the tittle, registration, new plate, etc.  And, you'd better have a bill of sale from the last registered owner in your paper trail.

  Otherwise, I think you now have a parts bike.