Author Topic: Air Screw Adjustment  (Read 2436 times)

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Offline 736cc

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Air Screw Adjustment
« on: April 29, 2007, 10:10:49 AM »
Anybody ever adjust the air screws on carbs other than factory specs?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Air Screw Adjustment
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2007, 10:19:51 AM »
Of Course!
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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liaudio

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Re: Air Screw Adjustment
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2007, 11:17:23 AM »
the factory specs are just a baseline adjustment.

Offline doug_id

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Re: Air Screw Adjustment
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2007, 12:10:20 PM »
After installing new exhaust and uni-pod filters...I was getting some backfiring on deceleration.  Opening up the air screws a bit really helped reduce that.
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Offline 736cc

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Re: Air Screw Adjustment
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2007, 02:09:31 PM »
Ok; lets get technical: Why would you deviate from factory, based on what observations, (are the changes only done while synching carbs or... what?) and which way do you turn them, based on which observations? And whats some basic guidelines or "rules of thumb?"
Factory calls for 1 turn out, stock jetting and airbox.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2007, 02:11:11 PM by 736cc »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Air Screw Adjustment
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2007, 03:07:28 PM »
I've told this story before, somewhere on this site.

I have an exhaust gas analyzer, and a CB550 with 4 into 4 pipes.  At the end of a tune-up service w carb sync., I put the exhaust sniffer into each pipe to measure the hydrocarbons.  Using the the airscrew on each cylinder's carb, I turned them out until I read minimum hydrocarbons at each pipe.  It took about 5 1/2 turns out to get it this way, which I thought odd.  But, the engine purred as sweet as can be. 

Time for a test ride.  I got about 25 feet before I knew this was all wrong, as there was no engine pickup from twisting the throttle while the engine was under load.  So, with a lot of coaxing I got back to the garage and turned each air screw in 2 turns.  Another test, and it was better but anything more than about 1/4 throttle under load and all I got was engine wheeze.
So, I turned the screws in another turn, test, better, but needs more.  I repeated this procedure until the throttle response and power were good when in gear at 1500 RPM and 1/2 travel on the throttle twist.   And at 4000 RPM in gear any amount of throttle twist netted a power response with no wheeze or hesitation.  This was certainly ridable and highly desireable for the street.

I then checked the final air screw setting.  Honda called for 1 1/2 turns out from seated plus or minus 3/8 of a turn.  Mine were at 1 5/8 turns.

Technical analysis:
The non-accelerator pump carbs rely on an over-rich idle mixture for engine pickup when the throttle is opened.  The intake vacuum drops rapidly when this occurs.  Loss of vacuum causes little fuel to be drawn from the jets and the engine gets mostly air.  If the residual mixture from operating at idle is over rich, the extra air gets a power response.  If it is too lean, a hesitation, at least until the air velocity in the carb throat rises to a level where the venturi effect can cause a pressure drop that pulls fuel through the jets.

So, the question is, when to deviate or optimize the air screw setting? The farther out the air screw setting, the better from the standpoint of not fouling plugs during idle, fuel economy, and minimum pollution from unburned hydrocarbons.  However, too far out and the bike is a bucking beast on the street.  So, turn them out as far as you can without making the throttle twist a butt puckering experience.

The air bleed screws compensate for the pressure drop in the carbs.  The air filter ALSO effects the pressure drop in the carbs.  A new filter with less restriction has less of a drop than one that is dirty and more restricted.  So, the air bleed adjustment should be made with a brand new clean air filter.  As it clogs up with particles, the throttle response from down low RPMs and load will actually improve and be more tolerant of large throttle changes.  Of course, a clogged or restricted filter will make the entire operating range rich, as well.  Hence frequent filter changes/cleaning.
Any changes to air filtration, such as pods, will almost certainly require a change to the air bleed screw settings (at least), as the stock Honda settings assume intake restriction and carb throat pressure drops similar to what the stock air filter provided.

I've heard some people proclaim that each carb can have a different ideal setting.  However, if each cylinder is working at equal efficiency, and all parts in each carb are identical, I see no reason for this to be so.  If you need different settings for different carbs, something is wrong and the unequal adjustments are a compensation, not a correction.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline sandcastcb750

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Re: Air Screw Adjustment
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2007, 03:22:46 PM »
I always use 1 1/4 turns from tight in. Seems to work okay.

I still think that because all this stuff we try to fix, is +25 years and older; it is worn, clogged with gas and imperfect in some manner. Yea, we think that we have fixed it.

Only a new set of carbs would solve the problem absolutely- unless it was a take -off put on the shelf by a dealer millions of years ago and found later as NOS. I bought a NOS brake master cylinder at a dealer that I am sure was a take -off reject, unknown by me until it was too late.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Air Screw Adjustment
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2007, 05:14:14 PM »


I've heard some people proclaim that each carb can have a different ideal setting.  However, if each cylinder is working at equal efficiency, and all parts in each carb are identical, I see no reason for this to be so.  If you need different settings for different carbs, something is wrong and the unequal adjustments are a compensation, not a correction.

Cheers,



I would say that wear and tear not to mention age, and any number of variables would cause variations.  I would say that a bit of compensation is in order and I would not spend a minute worrying about it.   I know a Surgeon and he says all our part are roughly in the same place, but we all are a bit different inside.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Air Screw Adjustment
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2007, 05:29:38 PM »
I would say that wear and tear not to mention age, and any number of variables would cause variations.  I would say that a bit of compensation is in order and I would not spend a minute worrying about it.   I know a Surgeon and he says all our part are roughly in the same place, but we all are a bit different inside.

But are you going to go through the time and trouble of finding out exactly what compensation each individual carb needs, and then adjust each accordingly, or are you going to find the one setting that works best for all of them and stick with that?

P.S.  Like the new avatar! ;D

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Air Screw Adjustment
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2007, 05:36:25 PM »
I would say that wear and tear not to mention age, and any number of variables would cause variations.  I would say that a bit of compensation is in order and I would not spend a minute worrying about it.   I know a Surgeon and he says all our part are roughly in the same place, but we all are a bit different inside.

But are you going to go through the time and trouble of finding out exactly what compensation each individual carb needs, and then adjust each accordingly, or are you going to find the one setting that works best for all of them and stick with that?

P.S.  Like the new avatar! ;D

No actually I use my old inductive tach and my ears and adjust them till I get the highest and smoothest idle. Same stuff I did on my cars back in the day. Now, I have the 1978 pumper carbs, so I am adjusting idle mixture.   
Thanks, I do like the look of the old Challengers.  ;D
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Air Screw Adjustment
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2007, 06:54:33 PM »
I would say that wear and tear not to mention age, and any number of variables would cause variations.  I would say that a bit of compensation is in order and I would not spend a minute worrying about it.    

Wear and tear can certainly be an issue and that is precisely why we replace worn, damaged components.  As to age, such things are mostly relevant to organic components.  These are also renewable in our machines.  I see little reason to compensate a leaky, defective, organic seal with air screw adjustments which are, by design, imprecise adjustments.

I know a Surgeon and he says all our part are roughly in the same place, but we all are a bit different inside.

I believe organic, biologic engineering born of chaos is hardly comparable or applicable to the mechanical engineering of the SOHC4.

I also believe the subject of this thread was about air screws, and where my comments were directed.  IMS is most certainly adjusted differently as it is a direct fuel flow adjustment and the machined parts are not made to a tolerance that supports precise equal flow.  The Honda initial settings for these are a baseline/starting point and the Honda Shop manual specifies fine tuning these with a sensitive RPM meter in a similar manner to highly trained and sensitive ears.  But, to claim air screws need be adjusted with the same precision to IMS screws seems to be an unnecessary contrivance.

Readers can draw their own conclusions from presented opinions, of course.

Best Regards,

P.S.  Oh yes, the green bit in the avatar is also attractive.  ;D
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.