Topic: Why this Virginian will never accept Gun Control 37th Anniversary

[Rocking-M]

First, since I'm a descendant of untold numbers of ancestors who
forged a life here on their own, without government assistance
and largely with a mistrust of government. They did so with guns as
their primary means of defence from a rampant government and
as a means to provide food. They were never thought of as civilians,
a word that should be considered a cuss word here for we are CITIZENS.
Our armies were never to be large standing armies but armies consisting
of CITIZEN Soldiers and disbanded when not needed. Returning to the local
Militias from which they were drawn. In fact this is what our constitution
clearly states,though ignored by our current usurpers of power and
deniers of the constitution by illegal edicts from their thrones.
One day soon the constitution must be reinstated in full and that is

why I will hang on to my guns.

This may be hard to fathom for those from Australia, or the UK,
or many European countries. For they are use to being told what to do
by their governments and readily accept it. For Australians I guess it
is a reminant of that prison mentality since they are largely descendants of
prisoners, for Europeans it's probably a remnant of the serf mentality.
For me, I have neither remnant, I am a descendant of Rebels,
first against the Throne of England, and then against the Usurper Lincoln.
Thus my blood is the same as my ancestors.


CITIZENS should have been armed here!

CITIZENS at Waco should never have stop firing while they had the upper hand.
A good sniper there could have turned the tide forcing a different tactic rather than
a siege and stopped the subsequent government slaughter of CITIZENS.
CITIZENS in the community should have responded as soon as word was out
and forced the feds out.

CITIZENS at Ruby Ridge should have responded to help those
folks holed up there.

The miltarization of the local Police was never intended by our
founders. In fact this will be the last straw that finally gets folks in the
mind set to take up arms for change one day.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/blackstock7.html

The 37th Anniversary is that of Kent State.

[upperlake04]

  I'm proud of you boy - come on up for a beer, you're welcome here.   
    A couple of years ago the Feds implemented a nationwide long gun registry and out here in the West, from what I saw, a large number of responsible gun owners either ignored  or falsified their paperwork. Some provinces refused to enforce the legislation. It was costly and wasn't working and after a change of government, there was  an extension of the deadline to comply, a tactic designed to appease rural and Western Canadians as well as liberal urban populations.  No one has yet been charged under the new laws and the issue appears to be fading away. Time will tell, but citizens against unpopular laws can make a difference.

[Rocking-M]

Hey David, I'm tipping a Molson Golden to you now!

[BobbyR]

For me, I have neither remnant, I am a descendant of Rebels,
first against the Throne of England, and then against the Usurper Lincoln.
Thus my blood is the same as my ancestors.

[BobbyR]

For me, I have neither remnant, I am a descendant of Rebels,
first against the Throne of England, and then against the Usurper Lincoln.
Thus my blood is the same as my ancestors.

I kinda liked Abe, never met him mind you but I am a student of his writings. I think if he had lived the treatment of the Confederate States would have been kinder.

[edbikerii]

Yes RM, those that fail to study history are destined to repeat it.

First, since I'm a descendant of untold numbers of ancestors who
forged a life here on their own, without government assistance
and largely with a mistrust of government. They did so with guns as
their primary means of defence from a rampant government and
as a means to provide food. They were never thought of as civilians,
a word that should be considered a cuss word here for we are CITIZENS.
Our armies were never to be large standing armies but armies consisting
of CITIZEN Soldiers and disbanded when not needed. Returning to the local
Militias from which they were drawn. In fact this is what our constitution
clearly states,though ignored by our current usurpers of power and
deniers of the constitution by illegal edicts from their thrones.
One day soon the constitution must be reinstated in full and that is

why I will hang on to my guns.

This may be hard to fathom for those from Australia, or the UK,
or many European countries. For they are use to being told what to do
by their governments and readily accept it. For Australians I guess it
is a reminant of that prison mentality since they are largely descendants of
prisoners, for Europeans it's probably a remnant of the serf mentality.
For me, I have neither remnant, I am a descendant of Rebels,
first against the Throne of England, and then against the Usurper Lincoln.
Thus my blood is the same as my ancestors.


CITIZENS should have been armed here!

CITIZENS at Waco should never have stop firing while they had the upper hand.
A good sniper there could have turned the tide forcing a different tactic rather than
a siege and stopped the subsequent government slaughter of CITIZENS.
CITIZENS in the community should have responded as soon as word was out
and forced the feds out.

CITIZENS at Ruby Ridge should have responded to help those
folks holed up there.

The miltarization of the local Police was never intended by our
founders. In fact this will be the last straw that finally gets folks in the
mind set to take up arms for change one day.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/blackstock7.html

The 37th Anniversary is that of Kent State.

[Rocking-M]

Bobby, have you studied the mis-use he made of the Constitution in waging his war of
northern aggression. It never was about slavery. His wholesale attack on the press, the locking
up of 25,000 plus folks in the North by taking away the right to trail, his locking up of the Maryland
legislature who were about to side with the South because they were opposed to Northern soldiers
attacking sovereign States. The war was about Southern revenues!
To quote the Ape "Let the South go, where would we get our revenues".
The constitution be damned to paraphrase Lincoln's sentiments.

The real story is the north was destitute without Southern revenues, the lost gold shipment
that caused the northern economy to go belly up followed by the Southern right of secession
caused the north to wage a war of aggression. Ape got what he deserved and the North made a
martyr out of a man who would never have been remember favorably by even the North had he lived
and not been fantasied about. Perhaps a good read would be Minors, "The Real Lincoln". ( I think that
is the correct spelling of the authors last name, if you like i can get a isbn for you).

Back to guns though, most northerners were against the war and it's unconstitutional overtones,
which is why immigrants where used in a wholesale manner by the North. They didn't understand
the rights of men to self-government and were easily manipulated by that and other reasons to
wage war for an empire. Those Irish immigrants in "Gods and Generals" had it right when they
quoted Caesar. For they fought for the American Caesar. And yes this can happen again because,
history has not been studied. Even now we see overtones of the abuses our Federal government is
capable of as well as blatant abuses. The Feds must be made once again to fear the people for things
ever to approach being right in this country. It's backwards now.

[BobbyR]

Well I do sympathize with the South in many ways. If I were Abe's position  I probably would do what he did to preserve the Union. The South was our agricultural resource and the North was mostly industrial we really needed each other. I almost married into the Ware family who owned the Plantations so I have travelled in the South since the Sixties and heard about the Confederacy from their point of view. By any measure the War was a horrible mess and waste of lives. I am very much for States rights and think the Fed has become a bit heavy handed. I am essentially a Libertarian. Had Lincoln survived I am not sure how he would be remembered, no way of knowing. He did write about what to do when the War ended. He wrote about treating the South more kindly than that drunk Johnson and his carpetbagger advisors did. We are 50 States now and we need to stay that way. We just have to get back to basics. I don't debate guns anymore, there are so many out there, it cannot be controlled. It is also an American thing nobody outside can understand.   We have a lot of American things nobody but we get. The South broke away from the North, was forced back into the Union. However, Southerners are among the most Patriotic Americans, and step right up when called. How any other Nations have had such a bloody rift and can say the same thing. That my friend is one of the things that makes us different. maybe not better, but we are different.

[ledbetter]

Just my 2 bits,A unarmed man is a subject,a armed man is a citizen.
 
 Ledbetter

[nickjtc]

I'll be interested to read a rebuttal written by a 'northerner'. Anyone out there in the northern states care to comment......?

[ledbetter]

You know thay will thay cant shut up

Ledbetter

[nickjtc]

Just to throw more history into the mix........ England was racked by two civil wars, the War of the Roses (1455-1485) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_the_Roses and the 'Civil War' (1642-1652)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Civil_War

Both saw the demise of major public figures at the time.

I'm sure that bad feelings existed for a long time afterwards. Perceptually (because I can only speak from personal experience) I cannot ever recall having heated discussion with people who may have been on 'the other side'.

So, does this mean that in, say 200 years, the emotions felt by some northern or southern residents about the US civil war will have passed? Is time the great healer?

Just curious.

[ofreen]

I'll be interested to read a rebuttal written by a 'northerner'. Anyone out there in the northern states care to comment......?

The whole yankee/johnny reb thing is an eastern phenomenon.  Out here in the west, nobody gives it a thought.

[boatsdickson]

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." ------Adolph Hitler

Law enforcement of today have the same ideals and militaristic viewpoints of Hitler.

Topics like this make an honest person mad and quite defensive, and through my own negative nature I xpect nothing but tightening laws and sanctions imposed against us, the gun carrying citizens, in the future.

[edbikerii]

I guess I'm a northerner, born and raised in NYC.  However, you may be surprised to know that we don't all have our heads up our behinds.  As I'm sure you've noted from my earlier posts against gun control, in support of the Constitution, and against the welfare state, I mostly agree, so I have nothing to rebut.  Mind you, I'm not a Republican, either, but also consider myself a Libertarian.  Personally, I hate the two party system, as well, so generally vote for the lesser of two evils.

I'll be interested to read a rebuttal written by a 'northerner'. Anyone out there in the northern states care to comment......?

[Terry in Australia]

Nice rant, RM, but terribly inaccurate. Here is the correct definition of a "citizen", and as you'll see, a "Citizen" is someone who owes allegiance to his government, and is also just a "civilian" if he is not a soldier, police officer, etc

1.   a native or naturalized member of a state or nation who owes allegiance to its government and is entitled to its protection (distinguished from alien).
2.   an inhabitant of a city or town, esp. one entitled to its privileges or franchises.
3.   an inhabitant, or denizen: The deer is a citizen of our woods.
4.   a civilian, as distinguished from a soldier, police officer, etc.

Here's the reference: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/citizen

Oh, and for over 150 years, America (particularly the south) was a British penal colony long before Australia, and for twice as long, so I guess we all descended from the same stock? Rebel? Sheep rustler, more like it! Cheers, Terry. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_colony

[BobbyR]

I'll be interested to read a rebuttal written by a 'northerner'. Anyone out there in the northern states care to comment......?

Well being born, raised in NYC and living in the suburbs. I am about a Northern as you can get. The Civil War ended in 1865. You can't fix the past, you can only work on the here and now.
I have spent a lot of time in the South. Southerners are not dumb, or mean, or backward. They have a Southern culture, just as we have a Northern culture. People like Larry the Cable Guy are really counterproductive.
The South has risen again, businesses have moved there. In places you only passed dirt farms there are now office buildings and new schools. Smartly dressed people are shopping in Malls.
Ok, I admit I cannot stand grits. But, I listen to Willie, Hank Sr and Jr , David Allan Coe, Johnny, etc on Sirius. I also listen to NPR and Classic Rock. The internet, cable TV, and media in general is leveling out the US. In NY we make fun of New Jersey and vice versa, when the Twin Towers came down, aid came rushing in from Jersey. People came up from the South in pickup trucks with shovels to help dig people out.
All this North/South stuff is crap. Up here we don't give it a second thought. We worry more about gas prices and how to get ourselves out of this mess in the Middle East. 

[Rocking-M]

Bobby, you misunderstand my intent. My comparisons are historical, after all
how do you think we ended up where we are today? Because of mistakes in
the past, Lincoln being the the main impetus to the demise of our Constitution.
That's where learning from history should come into play.
I also believe Jefferson had it right when he said that our union would become to big.
I think the westerner who posted is right, it doesn't really matter what
goes on in the east. I agree, and in the South (which ain't east damnit )
or in the North. There should at least be 3 separate unions (or confederacies)
which would better enable a representative government in each union.
(By the way, the united States was originally a Confederacy and the articles of
Confederation where way better than the Constitution ever was)

As to an industrial South.
Personally, I do not believe an industrial culture  is better than an Agrarian Culture.
The South would have been better off to remain primarily agrarian. It still is
for the most part but the agrarian root is starting to whither under the pressure
to urbanize.

As to Grits,
There are nasty grits in the South, however, if you'd ever like to try good grits
we can fix you up round here

Terry, good modern definition, not applicable to the historical context I was
writing in. And again part of how we ended up where we are here in the States.

[Jv550]

There are nasty grits in the South, however, if you'd ever like to try good grits
we can fix you up round here

I like mine with butter and sorghum syrup...

[BobbyR]

Bobby, you misunderstand my intent. My comparisons are historical, after all
how do you think we ended up where we are today? Because of mistakes in
the past, Lincoln being the the main impetus to the demise of our Constitution.
That's where learning from history should come into play.
I also believe Jefferson had it right when he said that our union would become to big.
I think the westerner who posted is right, it doesn't really matter what
goes on in the east. I agree, and in the South (which ain't east damnit )
or in the North. There should at least be 3 separate unions (or confederacies)
which would better enable a representative government in each union.
(By the way, the united States was originally a Confederacy and the articles of
Confederation where way better than the Constitution ever was)

As to an industrial South.
Personally, I do not believe an industrial culture  is better than an Agrarian Culture.
The South would have been better off to remain primarily agrarian. It still is
for the most part but the agrarian root is starting to whither under the pressure
to urbanize.

As to Grits,
There are nasty grits in the South, however, if you'd ever like to try good grits
we can fix you up round here

Terry, good modern definition, not applicable to the historical context I was
writing in. And again part of how we ended up where we are here in the States.

Well it is hard to make the World spin the other way no matter how much we would want it to. I don't think in the modern world we could become three seperate entities and maintain our power. I do think the States should have more autonomy, and the citizens of the States have more say in how they live their lives.
Now, I have eaten everyone I know grits, and I just can't acquire the taste. At the moment I am watching the Nextel Cup race at Richmond. Counter to some peoples opinion of NASCAR fans, I have all my teeth, the washing machine is in the Laundry room, none of my cars are on blocks, and my Home is not on wheels. Geeze, I even lease a Volvo.  Oh yeah, I left Merle from my list of favorite artists.

[Terry in Australia]

Terry, good modern definition, not applicable to the historical context I was
writing in. And again part of how we ended up where we are here in the States.

No mate, that's the only accepted definition, and was defined from a language much older than your history in the US, when your ancestors were British, or perhaps European?

You can try to re-write history if you like, and ignore your convict heritage too, but the English language was written long before your country was born, so as much as you'd probably like to, you can't change that. Cheers, Terry.

[BobbyR]

Terry, good modern definition, not applicable to the historical context I was
writing in. And again part of how we ended up where we are here in the States.

No mate, that's the only accepted definition, and was defined from a language much older than your history in the US, when your ancestors were British, or perhaps European?

You can try to re-write history if you like, and ignore your convict heritage too, but the English language was written long before your country was born, so as much as you'd probably like to, you can't change that. Cheers, Terry.

This is a clear case lack of forethought. If the Brits had copywrited the language, can you imagine the royalty income they would be getting. While my ancestors did not get here till the 1890s, a few of my Italian uncles have had an outstanding warrant or two from time to time. 

[Terry in Australia]

This is a clear case lack of forethought. If the Brits had copywrited the language, can you imagine the royalty income they would be getting. While my ancestors did not get here till the 1890s, a few of my Italian uncles have had an outstanding warrant or two from time to time. 

Yeah that's right Bobby, I grew up with a Sicilian family "straight off the boat" from the old country who moved in next door, great people, my country town was about as rascist as you can imagine, but my Dad found jobs for the two oldest boys, Tony and Rocco, so we got invited to all the weddings, 21st birthday parties etc, it was great fun, great food, (and judging by my Dad dragging himself home drunk as a skunk afterwards) great booze too!

These guys were really trying to assimilate into the Aussie culture while maintaining their traditional values, so helping them try to learn the language was at times painful, and even more difficult due to the way we Aussies have butchered the language through the centuries, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

[Rocking-M]

No Miss Mattey Terry,

Our country did redefine it so as to deal with the pushy Brits. Perhaps a little Jefferson reading should be on your list.
You might learn a thing or to though I doubt it.

My ancestors were Scots, and the prison heritage you speak of was not as big here as the scum bags they had
to send to Australia. Lets see, hows this go, Cheers. 

[74cb750]

Ok, so if I move back south,
do I have to refute all the history teachings I 've had
here in the north?
 
peace,