Topic: The X's Project

[DME]

Hey xtalon, things are looking great 

Glad the tank is coming along so nicely and I like the narrow rear very much!
It seems my tank is slightly longer then yours and it has the stock width at the rear.
Feels a little wide when sitting on the bike at standstill with feet on the ground, but it really works great with feet on footpegs.

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the bike come to life, reborn into something new and improved 

Cheers
Daniel

[xtalon]

Hey xtalon, things are looking great 

Glad the tank is coming along so nicely and I like the narrow rear very much!
It seems my tank is slightly longer then yours and it has the stock width at the rear.
Feels a little wide when sitting on the bike at standstill with feet on the ground, but it really works great with feet on footpegs.

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the bike come to life, reborn into something new and improved 

Cheers
Daniel

Thanks Daniel, that means a lot coming from you since it was your ingenuity that inspired it!  Thanks for all your help.  If I recall, I think you stretched your tank almost 6 inches.  Mine is only stretched around 4-1/2 to 5 inches.  I had to still try to fit two people on the seat... dammit!     I'm happy the way it has turned out so far and all the credit goes to my buddy Jason.  Other than follow your design and cut it, I've only been his lacky... 'grind this', 'sand that', etc.     If the mirra chrome paint works out as I hope it will, then I will be extremely happy!  I hoping with the tappered rearend of the tank, it will allow me to sit a little closer to the front of the bike, allowing more room for my girlfriend.  At least that's how I plan on cutting the seat pan.  I'll know more when it actually happens.

Gearbot, the lowering blocks worked in terms of lowering the rear end; however, I have read concerns about how they effect the handling of the rearend.  I don't know if the concerns are warranted, because I have yet to ride the bike without the lowering blocks.  It seemed like an odd design to me.  I know they make shorter rear shocks for these bikes, so if it was me, that's the way I would do it, but cost may be an issue and if so, lowering blocks will work.  Lowering the rearend will defintely effect the overall handling by slowing the steering some, but you could offset this by raising the front forks through the triple tree, thus lowering the front of the bike as well.  Once I get done with my project, I'll probably sell all my excess parts including the lowering blocks.  Other than the motor and the frame, I think I have enough to build another bike.   

--xTalon

[greenjeans]

Looking good...... I'm gonna have to stretch my next tank for sure.   The more research I do on the chrome paint,
the more I think it's going to be great...Still have yet to see one, or find out definitively on whether they clear coat after they  put down the final chrome....the mist coats over the black are leaving me wondering how it will weather/clean.  You know if you can wax it ?    Anyway......keep up the good work.  Can't wait to see that finished tank.

[ProTeal55]

If u want to ditch the lowering blocks and still lower the rear your best bet is to go with a set of 11'' short shocks.

I have them on both of my bikes and they do the job just fine..

[tmht]

If u want to ditch the lowering blocks and still lower the rear your best bet is to go with a set of 11'' short shocks.

I have them on both of my bikes and they do the job just fine..

PT, You smack that diamond plate with the tire yet? It may be a perspective thing but the top of the tire looks awfully close.

[xtalon]

Looking good...... I'm gonna have to stretch my next tank for sure.   The more research I do on the chrome paint,
the more I think it's going to be great...Still have yet to see one, or find out definitively on whether they clear coat after they  put down the final chrome....the mist coats over the black are leaving me wondering how it will weather/clean.  You know if you can wax it ?    Anyway......keep up the good work.  Can't wait to see that finished tank.

Greenjeans, according to their directions (which I am simplifying here):
1.  Basecoat
2.  Clear (allow to dry 7-10 days)
3.  Wipe w/ isopropyl alcohol to pre-clean
4.  Apply 2 dust coats of mirra-chrome
5.  Dry overnight.  Wipe w/ lint free cloth
6.  Clear

Since it can be cleared, I can't think of any reason you couldn't treat it as a normal paint job.  Wash, wax, etc (after it has cured of course).  The paint will be protected by the clear.

--xTalon

[xtalon]

Phase III centers around the rearend of the bike.   The rear tire that was on the bike was a 120 and had what looked like to me, an almost square profile, plus the rear wheel spokes were all rusted, so I wanted to improve this area.





I knew I had to have a different tire and the spokes needed to be addressed, so I started looking into my options.  I saw an auction on ebay for rebuilt wheels with powdercoated rims, so I contacted the seller - Eric.  After talking with him, I found out he runs a 150 size tire on his bike, so we started discussing this option and he informed me that it is do-able on my bike, so I had him build me a set of wheels with black powdercoated rims and stainless steel spokes.  The front is stock, but the rear is a 3x16" Harley rim.  He does great work!  If you are interested in the wheels, send me a PM and I will tell you how to get in touch with him.

Per Eric's instructions, in order to run this size wheel, I had to obtain a '77-'78 CB750K swingarm which is slightly wider and longer, but otherwise bolts right on.  My '76K swingarm is on the right and the '77K swingarm is on the left:



I sanded the swingarm and primed and painted it with Eastwood Black Chassis Primer and Black Chassis Paint (Satin).  I had read good things about this paint, so we shall see how well it holds up.  I also used it to spray bomb most of the frame that I could reach without removing the engine.  Maybe next year or later, I can get the frame powdercoated.

Since everything was apart, I took the time to sand and polish what I could.  My polishing skills are lacking way behind other members around here (ahem.... Raul!)  , but things look a lot better than they did.

Brake:


In order to make sure the chain clears the tire, I needed a '77-78K sprocket carrier which has about 10mm extra width built into it.  So I bought a '77 CB750A rear wheel, axle, etc.  After looking a microfiche, I discoverd the Hondamatic rear hub, carrier, etc. were the same as the K model.

Once I had the sproket carrier, I put in a new bearing and polished it up.



I put my stock '76K 48 teeth rear sprocket on and the sprocket plate which I had cleaned and painted with the Chassis black.

In order to get the front sprocket to match the rear sprocket, I purchased the 10mm offset sprocket from Cycle Exchange.



I polished the '77K axle and spacers.  Bought and mounted Dunlop GT501 tires and began putting it all together.





...and finally on the bike...





Old tire versus new:



I don't have everything all bolted back together, because I had to order a new chain since this swingarm is longer and also I didn't realize I needed a '77-'78 brake stay arm, so I have that coming now to be sanded and painted with the Chassis paint.





This all looks easy and straight forward, but it took me a lot of time.  Also, if you decide to go this route, two issues you should know about.  One, since I'm keeping this a two seater and therefore keeping the rear pegs, the left side passenger peg support contacts the new swingarm (just barely).  I was going to try to bend this out, but instead, we cut the seam line on the swingarm and then welded it back.  I thought I had a picture of this, but I can't find it.  The other issue is that since the swingarm is now wider, I am probably going to have to do something to the upper shock mounts so they match up to the lower mounts.  They are only off maybe 1/2 inch on each side.  I don't know if I can simply do this with some kind of spacer or if we will weld something to the frame for more strength.  I'll post what we end up doing.

--xTalon

[cben750f0]

mate that rear end is looking bloody awesome, they really look great with a wider rear tire, keep us in the loop, reallly great job


peace

[bgfootball67]

In discussing these tire with Eric, what problems do you expect to have in switching from and 18" tire to a 16" tire?  Will it F with you on gearing or anything like that?  I will probably end up rolling a 130 on my 18" tire if I can find one...

[cben750f0]

i run a 130 on my bike....works great..

peace

[xtalon]

mate that rear end is looking bloody awesome, they really look great with a wider rear tire, keep us in the loop, reallly great job
peace

Thanks man!  I'm pretty happy with it.  I can't wait to see how it does on the road, but if any issues come up, I can easily drop down to a 140 or 130.  I don't plan on going balls out on the thing (that's what the R6 is for), so as long as it cruises along at a decent clip, I'll be happy.

In discussing these tire with Eric, what problems do you expect to have in switching from and 18" tire to a 16" tire?  Will it F with you on gearing or anything like that?  I will probably end up rolling a 130 on my 18" tire if I can find one...

My biggest concern was whether it would actually work.  After I had the swingarm, I mocked up a piece of cardboard in the dimensions of the tire I wanted and it looked like it would barely clear, but once it's actually on the bike and with the chain offset by the sprocket carrier and front offset sprocket, everything appears to have plenty of clearance so far (other than the left passenger peg mount I mentioned earlier).

I don't think I'll see a big enough change in my gearing to notice.  Even though the rim is 16", the tire itself has a high aspect ratio 80% compared to the width 150.  So the tire is still roughly the same height as the tire I took off (120/90/18).  I just went out and measured (which was hard to do with just eyeballing it), but they seemed to be within 1/4 inch of each other.

Whatever you decide to do, make sure the width of tire you choose will work on that rim and won't pinch the tire too much and be dangerous.  Most tire mfgs. list recommended rim widths.  Dunlop recommends a 3.5" rim for this 150 tire, but when I contacted them, they said that was the average recommendation and that a 3" would work.  Of course it is at the low end of what will work.

--xTalon

[EVILONE]

Hello all.I am EVILONE(X's buddy withe the custom paint shop).After helping X with his project,I must say I now have the bug for a old bike....lol.I will be hanging around here lookin at ideas,and sometime in the near future,Im gonna build one too.But in the mean time,feel free to ask me any questions you have about paint and body.Take care...........

EVILONE

[xtalon]

Hello all.I am EVILONE(X's buddy withe the custom paint shop).After helping X with his project,I must say I now have the bug for a old bike....lol.I will be hanging around here lookin at ideas,and sometime in the near future,Im gonna build one too.But in the mean time,feel free to ask me any questions you have about paint and body.Take care...........

EVILONE

Well... goes to prove that they will  let anyone in this place, eh?

Welcome Evey Lone E!   

Phase IV is the frontend.  The sole purpose of messing with the frontend was to get more braking power.  Even though the front is a disc brake, this is the first street bike where I actually prefer the rear brake equally or more so than the front.  Honda should be commended for the front disc brake, but 1st generation technology is exactly that in comparison to today's modern disc brakes.  I wanted to stick with the vintage brakes, so once I read on this forum that the GL1000's twin disc setup would work on my bike, I had found my answer.  I began sourcing parts... a triple tree here, calipers there, forks from over yonder.

The forks, which I ended up winning off of eBay for under $3.00, were in excellent shape except for the chipping paint on the lowers.  Since they were off the bike, I wanted to change the seals and at the same time, I went with Progressive springs.  I've never changed fork seals before and I got somewhat confused when the fork lowers ended up having different types of seals.  I'm sure some of you remember that noob post trying to find an answer!      Anyway, it all worked out and I finally got them out and put in Leak Proof seals.  Hopefully they will live up to their name.

While apart, I stripped the paint off of the lowers while I was stripping the gas tanks.  At this point, I didn't know what I was going to do with the lowers - spray bomb, professional paint or powder coat:



I needed something to wash parts in, so I stopped in the local Dollar General and bought a cheap plastic flower box for $3:







I took the fork lowers, brake disks and calipers to be powdercoated 50% gloss black:







Next came the task of removing the CB's stock front end and replacing with the GL1000's front end (Jinxracing has a pretty good thread on this subject with some excellent photos).  I need to personally thank Jinxracing and Eurban for helping me with this aspect of my project -- Thanks Guys!

The previous owner had mounted drag bars on the bike and I'm replacing with Tommaselli clip-ons, so I need to remove the wiring from within the handlebars, so I needed to disconnect from within the headlight bucket.  Here is a picture of the surgery (Note the old desk lap duct taped to the front tire - my shop lamp halogen bulb burned out, but I love that old lamp too):   



Here's a good reason to clean your ears kids... Nice and cRusty:



Once the front end was off, I replaced the old ball bearings with All Balls tapered roller bearings.  Tapped out the old races...

Old Top:


Old Bottom:


...and replaced with the new races.

New top (which does not set flush to the top of the steering head):


New bottom:


I had a #$%* of a time getting the lower bearing onto the steering stem.  I did not have a piece of pipe to fit the inner race of the bearing and extend over the steering stem to hammer, but my old trusty vacuum cleaner came through again!  The attachment tubes taper at the ends to add additional tubes, so I took one of these and cut where I thought the diameter of the tube would match the inner race.  Somehow I managed to get it on the first try.  Unfortunately, this didn't leave the tube long enough to extend above the steering stem to hammer, so I ended up hammering it down by hand (i.e. holding it and slamming it down on top of the inner race of the bearing.  About halfway through, the plastic tube began to split, so I took a hose clamp and fixed it. Yes, redneck engineering at work... and it did work, although I don't recommend this method.  This can be the NOT how to do things thread.   



I should add that before I put the bearings on the stem, I packed them with grease by putting a large dollop of grease in the palm of my hand and with my other hand, dragging the wider portion of the bearing through the grease (as though scrapping it out of my palm).  I kept doing this and turning the bearing until grease started curling out of the narrow end of the bearing.

I installed the triple clamp, but didn't tighten anything and then installed the forks (which were also a #$%* to get through the top clamp, but I finally did and currently have them raised about 1" above the top clamp.

Since the CB front has more offset and I believe the GL1000 forks are longer, I meant to measure the bottom of the headstock in relation to the ground with the stock setup, so I could try to match that with the new setup, but I forgot.  If anyone has this measurement or can get it for me, I would appreciate it.  Until then, I'll leave it as is and see how it does.

After a little confusion on which way the front axle goes (on the CB, the threads are on the rider's left... but not on the GL), I finally got the front wheel on.  Everythings still needs to be aligned and tighten, but we're getting there.





--xTalon

[Jinxracing]

Looking good X...with that fat rear tire and all the black powdercoat it's really looking evil. I like it.

[Roach Carver]

very nice

[noelocol]

Hello,
Im building a cb750f with the same set up and I was wondering what jets are you running with that 4-4 drag set up with pods?






Thanks
N

[xtalon]

Hello,
Im building a cb750f with the same set up and I was wondering what jets are you running with that 4-4 drag set up with pods?

Thanks
N

N, jets are still currently stock.  I was only running the pipes (no pods) prior to shutting her down to pull off the front and rear ends.  I want to get it back on the road to work out any issues before I try the pods.  She is been unrideable for so long, I want to do a few check rides and maybe some recreational rides before I try the pods and possibly cause jetting issues that I will have to sort out.

Nice bike btw!  I assume those are MAC drag pipes as well.  You can't see the bend in the first picture, but there appears to be a bend in the second.  Care to share what you did?

--xTalon

[xtalon]

An update for everyone else that is interested.  I've still been working on her for the past month, but progress has been slow.  My buddy Jason (now a member here - Evilone - and also now a proud '77 550F owner) has been real busy with his body shop.  As much as I like to tell him that a CB750 tank should take priority over Ferrari F430's, Porsche GTR's, Ford GT40's and Aston Martin DB5's, for some odd reason, he just doesn't get it.       

Anyway, I've kind of been lax myself knowing that I still had 2 weeks+ even after the black paint and clear coat are applied.  This week, he finalized the shaping of the tank and primed it.  Even though I thought it looked great, he wasn't totally happy with it, so he shaped it some more and reprimed.  I must say, it looks AWESOME now.  Hopefully in the next few days, the black and clear coat can be applied.  Here it is before Jason reworked it one last time.



I had to order a new chain.  Due to the longer '77 CB750 swingarm, the old chain was no longer long enough.  Went with a DID X-ring chain with a rivet link.  Chain came in 104 links and I had to cut two links out, which makes for a tight fit, but it will be stretching soon enough.

Rebuilt the front GL1000 calibers and installed new EBC pads.  Installed the new master cylinder.  Installed speedbleeders.  Ordered stainless steel brake lines this week from Craig at HEL.  Nice guy and very helpful.  Thanks to all that have recommended HEL in previous threads.  Once the lines show up, the front end is virtually done other than reconnecting all the wires (fingers crossed on that one) and getting the clip-ons in their ideal location (I'll probably wait until the tank and seat are back on before doing that).

I had to add additional fork oil to the forks because the capacities I was given were for when the fluid was just drained using the drain hole and not completely torn down and totally emptied.

I also had to use my dremmel to cut a small gap for the wires in the left hand control pod so they could exit the housing since I'm not routing through the handlebars.



I originally had an issue with the front wheel not spinning once everything was tightened down.  Puppytrax suggested whacking each end of the front axle with a 2x4 while the axle is inserted in the wheel to help seat the new bearings.  At first this didn't work and the wheel still did not spin without some muscle, so I gave up for the night and lowered the bike back onto the ground.  I don't know if it was a combination of Puppytrax's advise or the wheel simply having the weight of the motorcycle sit on it overnight, but either way, the wheel spun fine the next day, so thanks PuppyT!

Things are starting to all come together, so hopefully not to much longer.  I can't wait!!!   

--xTalon

[cben750f0]

we await with baited breath!!!... hurry up!!!LOL


peace

[andy750]

Great thread X and love the updates and photos - keep them coming! Im eager to see this tank when its painted - looking great just now! Excellent work all round.

cheers
Andy

[kuyarico]

Nice work so far X. Very well thought out.

[xtalon]

I appreciate the comments guys.  It means a lot!   

--xTalon

[VitaminCB550]

You have to have some incredibly detail-oriented job as your primary profession. You do so well with the documentation and photography that I almost think that I could replicate this build with enough time and $$$ (and a buddy like yours    !

Also, the Photoshop skills are stellar!

How about this forum gets together and makes a book on all of the options - or even better a flash program where you can build your own cafe and save an image?! I'm sure there are some programmers around here and numerous examples of various parts (different exhausts, seats, tanks, wheels, bars, etc) and with flash or something like it, the possibilities are endless.

Extremely good job, fellow CBer!

[doug_id]

You are the man with the plan!   Great work....looking super!   

[starion88esir]

The bike looks like it's going to come out real nice. I LOVE the fatter rear tire as well. Where in NC are you if you don't mind me asking?