Author Topic: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals  (Read 5850 times)

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Offline jaknight

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Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« on: May 04, 2007, 11:23:44 PM »
Hello To All,

     Just thought I'd make a quick posting about my views on the most common repair and maintenance manuals, since I have recently picked up a couple I did not have until now.

     I heard and read a lot about what others have had to say about these manuals, but never actually looked them over.  Now, with money spent and leisure time with coffee mug in hand, I feel wiser and smaller in the bank account.......... and as is always with hindsight, realize how I could have better spent my time and money.

     1)  First, I am very disappointed in the Haynes manual.  I have had some of their different car manuals before......... they had done a very good job with the particular car manuals I needed.  Their manual on the '69 to '79 750's is hardly worth the paper it is printed on.  The car manuals I needed by them had excellent photos to step you through......... The portion of the manual in the front section of the book covering engine tear down and rebuild is the "gem" of the book; its best photos and steps....... the remainder of the manual was a total dismay to me.  Don't even look for bolt torque values or procedures here......... they don't exist, except for one very small and incomplete chart.

     2)  Clymer's was, frankly, better than what I expected.  The Clymer's I bought covered only the 750's, '69 to '78.  There is a combo manual that covers other engine sizes and years also.  I understand that in the "expanded" manual, there is less info on the 750's. Overall coverage is certainly better than Haynes (which isn't necessarily much of a compliment).  Procedures and steps are outlined better and a far greater amount of subjects covered.  The manual could use an update with improved quality of photographs and procedural steps expanded on some of the topics covered.  And yet, not too bad for the money spent as my Clymer's was significantly cheaper than the price of the Haynes.

     3)  And, I obtained what I thought was the Holy Grail.  Honda's own factory manual.  Prices can vary from about $40 to $150 ala Ebay-How-Crazy-Are-You?  Plenty of specifications in there with plenty of torque values; but NOT all of them including procedures for torquing sequences.  Plenty of photos.  My one gripe is that in many instances Honda (and justly so, for it was written for their Honda dealer mechanics) assumes you know how to proceed in removing or dismantling the parts involved.  There isn't necessarily a step by step discussion.  Still, worth having for specs and various listings if nothing else.

     4)  Lastly, and the biggest surprise....... I obtained a new copy of a 1,530 page Hard Back book by Chilton, covering Harley Davidson to Triumph, Norton, Moto Guzzi and, yes, Honda 750's.

     Only 65 pages are dedicated to the 750's, but............

     The photos are excellent; the information given is overall superior to any of the books.  Step by step procedure is best of all the books.  I paid $5.00 for a Brand New copy of this book.  Certainly, one of the best buys I have ever made in my life.  Full specifications for everything, valve sizes, clearances, torque values for everything..........on and on; it's all in there........ things you will not find in other manuals.  For those interested, it's full title is Chilton's Motorcycle Repair Manual 1981.  If you are looking for info you cannot find in other manuals, chances are high that it is in this manual.

     These are my views I thought I would share, for after having read so many of the other owner's views, I felt I could help by adding to our overall pool of knowledge...... ;) ;)

     ~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 01:13:36 AM by jaknight »
"THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD........
..........EXCEPT IN A SWORD FIGHT"
___________________________________________
"There is nothing new under the sun.........But there are many old things we do not know"
BIBLE ---> Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

Offline nickjtc

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 11:38:37 PM »
Good post, jaknight. I agree with your observations.

For the CB650 I have only had access to the Honda manual that came with it, which has been very adequate. I agree with your observation that there isn't the homey 'here-be-skinned-knuckles' ambiance of non-OEM literature.

For the Norton I have the pick of OEM, Haynes and Clymer. The Norton OEM is much like the Honda OEM. Frankly, I've been using the Clymer one on the basis that it is the filthiest and gives much the same info. as the Haynes.
Nick J. Member #3247

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gold01ca

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2007, 07:53:32 AM »
good info jaknight, knew the haynes was junk! have the clymer and honda factory manual, the combination more than adequate.
that chilton manual sounds interesting though, gonna have to keep my eye out for that one.

cheers!

Offline xtalon

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2007, 08:39:17 AM »
Ditto on the good info.  Makes me wish Chilton made a CB750 specific manual.

Maybe we should create an area on the forum where the members create there own manuals. I mean everyone here is constantly doing maintenance on their bikes and with just about everyone having a digital camera, I'm sure we could put together some great stuff.

I'll admit this forum is a lot more useful to me than any manual I have, but I still tend to get a little confused with just reading some posts.  Pictures are definitely worth a 1,000 words.  I know we have the FAQ section and the 'Tricks and Tips' section, but maybe a genuine 'home made manual section'?   Just a thought....  ???

--xTalon
1976 Honda CB750K
2006 Yamaha R6v
2009 Ducati SportsClassic Bi-posto

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2007, 09:53:48 AM »
I too have 3 but my combination is Honda, Clymers, and Chiltons (Honda 750 specific 69-77) and agree with most of your observations. I have a tendency to utilize the combination of all 3. I find the Clymers and Chiltons to be generic in that they cover all years as one. IE After you begin using these you might want to believe that your later F or K has the chain lube device unless you know better. The Honda shop manual, which I picked up directly from Helm, has this generic info at the beginning but also has supplements for each specific year and model in the back that shows the differences plus the individual specs.

Jak - you forgot to tell us how to find the $5 version ??!! 
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline jaknight

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2007, 09:17:35 AM »
Well RxmanGriff,

     The $5 gold mine came from Walden Books located in a shopping mall in Phoenix.

     It was on a large table stacked with "classic" books, if you will, that would not sell at the regular prices.......... so....... knocked down to 5 smackers............ I grabbed it 8) 8)

     1,530 pages of motorcycles for $5.......... I wasn't about to pass it up..... ;) ;)

     ~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~
"THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD........
..........EXCEPT IN A SWORD FIGHT"
___________________________________________
"There is nothing new under the sun.........But there are many old things we do not know"
BIBLE ---> Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

jerrybb

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2007, 08:25:15 AM »
Whatever you do, don't buy the Cycleserv version. I made the mistake of getting one on ebay because it was only $20 brand new and cheaper than the others. Really crappy photos, loaded with typo's and poor information. It had enough to get me going, but you can read the real thing on line or just buy the other name brands mentioned above.  Jerry

jerrybb

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2007, 08:38:17 AM »
Just bought one, based on jaknight's great recommendation for the Chilton's Motorcycle Repair Manual. There is one on Ebay and if you look for it on Amazon there are several for sale, mine was about $12 including shipping. Prob by the end of today they'll all be gone!  Thanks for the info, Jerry

Offline jaknight

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2007, 09:05:00 AM »
:D

     Hello jerrybb,

     Thanks for the info about the Cycleserv book.  I have seen them on Ebay and have been tempted to buy one.  I've never seen them in a book store; wondered what they were like.  Thank you for saving me money.

     I hope when you get your copy of the Chilton (I am assuming you are getting the Big Hardback like I bought) that you are not dissappointed and want to bite my head off.  They list every possible spec there is about the Honda 750's, nobody else did it like that.  As I have said, only 65 pages dedicated to the Honda, but, man it is all there.

     ~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~
"THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD........
..........EXCEPT IN A SWORD FIGHT"
___________________________________________
"There is nothing new under the sun.........But there are many old things we do not know"
BIBLE ---> Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

gold01ca

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2007, 10:19:32 AM »
thanks as well for the heads up on cycleserv crapola!

cheers!

Offline 333

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2007, 07:47:57 PM »
I've always believed that nobody knows more about your bike than the people that built it.  And the missing procedures in the Honda manual are covered in the "Honda Common Service Manual".
Go metric, every inch of the way!

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jerrybb

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2007, 03:07:25 PM »
Just got my Chiltons Motorcycle Repair Manual in the mail from Amazon, total cost $12.48 incl shipping, and it's a hardback too. Super condition and the info and quality is as good as jaknight says it is. There are 289 Honda pages including 2/4 stroke singles, twins, and 4's so it'll be helpful on my CT's, the Dream, and the 750.

One piece of advice, if you order one try to find out the published year to make sure it covers your bike. My book was done in 74 and covers up to the 750-K3 but thats close enough to my K4 for me. I assume they did this book in the early 80's too which would cover the dohc's but maybe not so good on the sohc's. 

Another good thing, who knows what bikes any of us will wind up with along the way, and this book covers all popular brands.  Jerry

Offline MoTo-BunnY

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How About the Official SOHC/4 Manual Project? too kewl!
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2007, 03:45:58 PM »
I think that would be a killer idea for the SOHC/4 site to have an ongoing manual project, like a 'wiki' kind of thing. Members could add on sections on various topics as created, kind of thing. Others could help with editing opinions and what not. .. .

Being all online, it would attract a good amount of traffic, I would imagine, and thus revenue for the site? Sounds like a great idea. . .especially with people here already posting their various projects.  ;D 

All the information would be in a central location too, negating the need for people to search endlessly through the tech sections for past posts and/or people asking questions about stuff that has already been answered repeatedly before.

Anyone else interested in something like this?

« Last Edit: May 12, 2007, 03:47:51 PM by MoTo-BunnY »
---> instagram.com/moto_bunny# <---

[img width= height=]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3440/3846213109_ae572002d4_o.gif[/img]

hoppin' on down the bunny trail . . .

1973 Honda CB500K2
1970 Ding-How aka Nova R-S w/3.5HP Tecumseh MiniBike
1970 Taco Model 22 deluxe w/3.0HP Briggs & Stratton MiniBike
1973 GMC Vandura 3/4 Ton Van (350CID V8)
1973 Dodge "Chinook" RV (360CID V8)
1985 Toyota Tercel Wagon SR5 (4WD - 3A engine)
1982 Toyota Pickup Truck (2WD - 22R engine)
1962? DriveX Pack-Mule (Tote-Gote clone)
1989 VW Jetta GLi 16V
1991 Diamondback Mtn. Bike

Offline puppytrax

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2007, 03:50:46 PM »
Is this the one??



I paid premium price...  :-[  $14.75 incl s&h...   ::)
...stock 1972 CB500 '500 Four' undergoing re-assembly...
...Stock 1972 CL450 'Scrambler' also being re-assembled...

jerrybb

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2007, 04:56:42 PM »
I think yours is the same as the one I just got, but yours is the 1981 edition. Mine has 68 pgs devoted to the 4's with 289 pgs total for Honda. Is yours different?

Offline puppytrax

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Re: How About the Official SOHC/4 Manual Project? too kewl!
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2007, 07:02:35 PM »
I think that would be a killer idea for the SOHC/4 site to have an ongoing manual project...

You mean like a...FAQ??   ;D
...stock 1972 CB500 '500 Four' undergoing re-assembly...
...Stock 1972 CL450 'Scrambler' also being re-assembled...

Offline ic455

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Re: How About the Official SOHC/4 Manual Project? too kewl!
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2007, 07:45:39 PM »
I think that would be a killer idea for the SOHC/4 site to have an ongoing manual project...

You mean like a...FAQ??   ;D

And/or  TRICKS AND TIPS

the idea of adding detailed procedures with pics to these already existing areas of the site is a good one, though

Offline MoTo-BunnY

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Re: How About the Official SOHC/4 Manual Project? too kewl!
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2007, 07:52:10 PM »
I think that would be a killer idea for the SOHC/4 site to have an ongoing manual project...

You mean like a...FAQ??   ;D

No, I mean more like an encyclopedia of the SOHC/4. . . .like wikipedia where all the members can contribute and edit kind of thing. Something more organized, indexed, printable, and searchable than the current info?

Maybe its just me but its kinda hard to find some info on the site and I also see a lot of people asking the same questions over and over, so I am assuming they aren't finding the answers easy enough, either?

Just seems like there is a LOT of amazing talent and information here that could easily produce an actual 'manual' (even if internet only) that would easily be better than the Chilton, Clymer, etc. and a worthy accompaniment to the Honda manuals.

---> instagram.com/moto_bunny# <---

[img width= height=]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3440/3846213109_ae572002d4_o.gif[/img]

hoppin' on down the bunny trail . . .

1973 Honda CB500K2
1970 Ding-How aka Nova R-S w/3.5HP Tecumseh MiniBike
1970 Taco Model 22 deluxe w/3.0HP Briggs & Stratton MiniBike
1973 GMC Vandura 3/4 Ton Van (350CID V8)
1973 Dodge "Chinook" RV (360CID V8)
1985 Toyota Tercel Wagon SR5 (4WD - 3A engine)
1982 Toyota Pickup Truck (2WD - 22R engine)
1962? DriveX Pack-Mule (Tote-Gote clone)
1989 VW Jetta GLi 16V
1991 Diamondback Mtn. Bike

Offline jaknight

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Re: Clymer's, Haynes, Honda, & Chilton's Manuals
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2007, 07:53:19 PM »
Hey puppytrax,

     Yes, that is the one I bought.  Look at all the listings;  granted in different locations,........ but look at all the listings for specifications, sizes, clearances, fits, torques, etc., etc.,........ :o

     I have never seen any manual with so many specs, albeit somewhat scattered around, but they are there.........

     Besides, think of all the other bikes you now have details for.......... you never know what ride you might inherit in the future.......... ;D ;D

     ~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~
« Last Edit: May 12, 2007, 07:55:34 PM by jaknight »
"THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD........
..........EXCEPT IN A SWORD FIGHT"
___________________________________________
"There is nothing new under the sun.........But there are many old things we do not know"
BIBLE ---> Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

Offline puppytrax

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Re: How About the Official SOHC/4 Manual Project? too kewl!
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2007, 04:28:55 AM »
No, I mean more like...like wikipedia where all the members can contribute...

Then you would have the same problem that Wikipedia has: inaccurate and sometimes dead wrong information. Because *anyone* can post it whether it's accurate/true or not...plus many of us can perform an operation differently than others do (or than Honda says it can be done), sometimes many different ways...there's lots of [ahem!] disagreements here on how to do a particular procedure (just Search for Carb Cleaning!).

Quote
...I also see a lot of people asking the same questions over and over, so I am assuming they aren't finding the answers easy enough, either?

Or don't Search for answers...or don't use the popular nomenclature...it's common to all Forums...that's why there are FAQs...this Forum has an excellent FAQ...

But I'd buy your Honda Encyclopedia...I just like books!!!  ;D (I have three full bookcases behind me!)
...stock 1972 CB500 '500 Four' undergoing re-assembly...
...Stock 1972 CL450 'Scrambler' also being re-assembled...

Offline xtalon

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Re: How About the Official SOHC/4 Manual Project? too kewl!
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2007, 07:40:12 AM »
No, I mean more like...like wikipedia where all the members can contribute...

Then you would have the same problem that Wikipedia has: inaccurate and sometimes dead wrong information. Because *anyone* can post it whether it's accurate/true or not...plus many of us can perform an operation differently than others do (or than Honda says it can be done), sometimes many different ways...there's lots of [ahem!] disagreements here on how to do a particular procedure (just Search for Carb Cleaning!).


Your concern came to mind when I made the suggestion and I thought maybe all posts would need to be reviewed prior to posting to the group.  The moderators could do this, but I know there are some very knowledgeable SOHC members here too (Hondaman, Two Tired, names that come to mind) that could be used to form a panel or something to review.  They could either agree or disagree and possibly work with the poster(s) to get it into acceptable form.  I know it sounds rather complicated, but it could be done.  They would basically be performing the tasks as say a book editor would perform.

The FAQ and Tips and Tricks are both nice sections and shouldn't be replaced.  I was thinking a section where people could go into really fine detail - pictures, etc. and that section could be broken down into engine, frame, suspension, etc. etc.

It was just a 'from left field thought' when I made it, and I thought I would throw it out there.  I'm sure it would be more work for people.  How much I don't know, but just thought I would throw the hand grenade and see if anyone would jump on it!   ;D

--xTalon
1976 Honda CB750K
2006 Yamaha R6v
2009 Ducati SportsClassic Bi-posto