Topic: sythetic oil

[jay]

i have 1978CB750f can you use synthetic oil and what weight.

[hymodyne]

...a mild rumble as hundreds rush for the internet "exit" sign, while others motion for popcorn, sodas or beers and settle in for another round ...


let the oil wars begin!!

[Bob Wessner]

Jay,

Start here http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=20bc6137716ecf2011d92b138c447b53&topic=160.msg1446 and do a search on this site for oil, synthetic, etc. You will find lots of good reading.

[Bodi]

uh-oh.

The following is the opinion of one man and does not represent the position of this website or any country, creed, religion, or race.

OK, you can use any motorcycle oil you want: synthetic, refined crude, or blended. Use the weight grade specified in the owners manual for the expected temperature outside. It should specify multigrade, if not use a multigrade that brackets the weight of the oil suggested - if it's SAE 20, use SAE 10-30
There are serious issues with using any car oil, avoid them. The additives for car oils change regularly, identical brand and weight can be a different oil tomorrow. Current car oils have almost eliminated certain friction modifiers known to contaminate some catalytic converters, and added others that may cause problems with wet clutches. The friction modifiers they are reducing are important for SOHC4 engines with their flat cam followers; the cams and followers can wear out quite fast, especially new parts that haven't worn smooth together yet. A car oil touted as superb for our bikes today might be reformulated tonight because of changed regulations, chemical prices, phrenological advice to the head chemist, or whatever - and they WILL NOT be considering how it will work in old motorcycle engines.
Motorcycle specific oils, so far, have additive packages that work with flat followers and don't hurt wet clutches.
You can also use diesel rated oil, diesel engines need the extra friction modifiers to keep the piston pins from wearing out immediately from the high compression load - as long as it doesn't have molybdenum disulphide added (bad for your clutch). Either refined crude, synthetic, or blended is fine again. Shell Rotella T Synthetic has been reported to be an excellent choice.

[TwoTired]

"Synthetic" used to have a distinctive meaning.  But, then oil companies began to weild their clout...

SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) deleted any and all definitions of "synthetic" from all specifications relating to oils.
API (American Petroleum Institute) never defined what "synthetic" is.
NAD (National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus) ruled that "Synthetic" is a marketing term and that it is the responsibility of the Marketer (the one who labels and markets the oil) to define what it is.

So today, the meaning of 'Synthetic" means "let me take more money from your wallet".

Cheers,

[eldar]

The old and beaten "synthetic vs conventional" debate is one I had to learn for myself. There are 2 simple field test you can do that will convince you whether the expense is worth it.
1) Fill small, identical plastic containers 1/2 full with your favorites - 10-30, 10-40, 20-50 oil ect in both conventional and synthetic flavors. Store these in your freezer for a day or so. Once they've reached the nice, frosty temps of a cold winter's night - take then out and turn the containers and watch how the synthetics of the same weights always out-pour/flow the conventionals.

Conclusion - If my engine is sitting there for hours or days and the oil has drained-back into the sump leaving bearings and friction parts without full protection, A) I want the quickest flowing oil in there to reach my vital metal/metal components B) I want to generate the least amount of load/wear on my components until the oil is flowing and I'm sure the lubricating film is between the parts  - so I never race, rev,  or ride a cold engine until I've given those parts time to warm up.

2) Take your most abused, unappreciated possession - that Briggs powered, air-cooled lawn mower and drain the oil. Look at it once drained. It's probably black, smells burnt, and is thick from months of high heat which has caused the viscosity to go up. Now go buy 2 quarts of Mobile 1 synthetic or one of your favorites (Redline, Motul, ect are excellent choices too). Refill your Briggs engine using the synthetic of the recommended weight and cut grass for a few months - even years.

Conclusion - I did this about 10-12 years ago in an old Murray and the results were amazing. With conventional oil, the engine oil would turn black in just 2-3 cuttings. After 6, it was getting thick and would not be flowing to the parts quickly (damages were certain to occure as demonstrated by the "flow test" mentioned earlier). With the Synthetic, I went an entire season with probably 40 cuttings and the oil still looked almost like what I'd poured in 8 months earliier. I've since bought 2 Snappers and there is no doubt about my choice for oils.

I've since learned that conventional oils burn-off, vaporize and leave varnish and thicken at approx 350 degrees. Redline and others go all of the way to nearly 600 degrees before vaporizing. This is why they retain their designed viscosity much longer, don't leave the varnish, and can provide better protection over time.

In fact, every bike, car, truck, boat, generator, mower I own has synthetic based on my own Briggs research. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just suggesting that if you're not already decided - do some of your own research.

Everyone has their own opinion but unlike what certain people here might say, I have never seen a conventional oil outperform a synthetic. And I bet they have not either regardless of what they might try to say about synth oils.

Oils DO have to meet certain requirements to be synthetic or labeled as such. Sorry but not even the oil companies would get away branding regular oil as synth. Not for long anyways. People would get the word around and it would end up in court and even if the oil company won, it would still draw suspicion to their products.

Of course if you choose to use a cheapo synth, it will still be junk then as the company is not that great anyways.
Stick with something from castrol, mobil1, or rotella and you will do good. Amsoil is good to but even more expensive.

[Pinhead]

Amsoil is some GOOD stuff, but like eldar said, you pay for it.

[TwoTired]

For those interested in learning things:
This from: http://www.synlube.com/synthetic.htm

1992 - CASTROL introduces Syntec SAE 5W-50 motor oil based on PAO
1992 or 94? - CASTROL reformulates Syntec motor oils with API Group III (petroleum) base stock from Shell
1999 - NAD rules that hydroisomerized base oils (Group III) can be classified as "synthetic oils"

Back labels of Mobil 1 products for many years had following statement:
" * exclusive of carrier oil"  in substantially smaller print.
While at the same time the front label declared the Mobil 1 as:
"100% Synthetic * ".

The "synthetic" oil business is regarded by many in the oil industry as a "religion" whose followers are holding a belief that "synthetic" is somehow superior, but lack the actual proof.
--- End of Excerpts---

( I don't use or sell their products, BTW.)
For the record, I like synthetic oils, and use them in a blend. Pay through the nose for them, too.

But, if you think product quality it what drives sales, then read this:
http://promomagazine.com/emmas/emma_greased_lightning/

Sleep well campers!

[pyro139]

let me actualy answer guys question, alot these old bikes, i know cb650's, not sure about yours have a wet plate, what i mean youy clutch assemply is pretty well sitting in your oil pan, it does not use seperate transmission fluid, alot of the synthetic oil's can cause slippage on the clutch not a good thing, so i personaly would recomend natural oil just be safe side unlless the group has found a syntehtic thats doesnt cause slippage and want share the info?

[Gordon]

let me actualy answer guys question, alot these old bikes, i know cb650's, not sure about yours have a wet plate, what i mean youy clutch assemply is pretty well sitting in your oil pan, it does not use seperate transmission fluid, alot of the synthetic oil's can cause slippage on the clutch not a good thing, so i personaly would recomend natural oil just be safe side unlless the group has found a syntehtic thats doesnt cause slippage and want share the info?

Read just a few of the other threads on the subject where various members have gone around and around this issue and you'll realize there is absolutely no concensus on oil within this forum.  You will not get a difinitive answer and hoping for one is futile.  Just use what works for you and be happy.  As long as there is oil in your engine and you change it, and the filter regularly, you will be fine. 

[Daves_76_SS]

 As long as there is oil in your engine and you change it, and the filter regularly, you will be fine. 

Well said!!

[pyro139]

 As long as there is oil in your engine and you change it, and the filter regularly, you will be fine. 

Well said!!

yes well said, ill continue believeing slippage therey and be safe after 15 years ago a buddy used syntehtic in a wet plate bike cluctch slipped going from 4th to 5th and bike lost control at 100kph(65mph) luckily he survived.

[nickjtc]

 As long as there is oil in your engine and you change it, and the filter regularly, you will be fine. 

Well said!!

Ditto! If you are changing your oil frequently, save your $$ and use a name brand 'regular' oil.

[medic09]

 As long as there is oil in your engine and you change it, and the filter regularly, you will be fine. 

Well said!!

Ditto! If you are changing your oil frequently, save your $$ and use a name brand 'regular' oil.

Okay, I'm the 4th to echo this.  Change oil and filter frequently, and you'll not have many oil caused problems; even if you use CheapoBeapo brand.  Repeat the mantra:  "I must change my oil and filter frequently.  I must change my oil and filter frequently.  I must send all my money to...I mean, I must change my oil and filter..."   

[TwoTired]

Read just a few of the other threads on the subject where various members have gone around and around this issue and you'll realize there is absolutely no concensus on oil within this forum.  You will not get a difinitive answer and hoping for one is futile. 

I have to agree with this.  Further, the marketing departments of the various oil companies are working hard toward keeping the consumer unaware of facts and measurable comparisons, so there is nothing except the religious aspect of brand loyalty.  They've had years to perfect the technique and they are masters of manipulation.  All without the consumer actually understanding they've been manipulated.

Cheers,

[mrbreeze]

My bike is currently down for front end overhaul but when I get rolling again....I am installing Terry's oil cooler and plan on running 20-50 Castrol.From what I have read here...that will work good in a hot climate as well as diesel oil (15-40 rotella,delo,etc.).I don't want to get into the synthetic vs. dino again so I will report back after I run the Castrol 20-50.......happy oiling!!!!

[nickjtc]

My bike is currently down for front end overhaul but when I get rolling again....I am installing Terry's oil cooler and plan on running 20-50 Castrol.From what I have read here...that will work good in a hot climate as well as diesel oil (15-40 rotella,delo,etc.).I don't want to get into the synthetic vs. dino again so I will report back after I run the Castrol 20-50.......happy oiling!!!!

Castrol is the bees knees (where did that expression come from, anyway??), and has the advantage hereabouts that it is one of the least expensive of the 'name brand' oils. 10-40 when its cool-er and 20-50 when we get it hot-er.

[CB750R]

I've always been a GTX/ Castrol Motorcycle 20/50 fan, however some one else just had a fairly detailed explanation of the additives in oils and said while the GTX 20/50 is fine for bike, or flat tappet engines, the 10/40's are not! My new rule of thumb,  Oil for bikes is good, oil for cars is bad, wheather its synth, or dino!!  (and for those of you using deisel rated oils, you seem to know what your doing so good on ya)

 

[mrbreeze]

Thats what I understood also. The Castrol 20-50 is good but not the 10-40. I have always used Castrol or Valvoline 10-40 and I noticed last season that when I was really nailing it,the clutch was slipping between shifts(like 3rd to 4th). I don't think I hurt my clutch but if I did,it will probably be evident even with switching over to the 20-50.

[jay]

thanx everyone. i used castrol 10w40 motorcycle. i drained all the oil it only took 2 litres is this normal

[CB750R]

did ya change the filter? did ya drain the oil tank, not just the oil pan??

[rhinoracer]

I used to run Golden Spectro (synthetic) in my Kaw for years without any problems whatsoever. Never had any issues with the clutch or engine wear.

[lincoln]

Came across this article a few years ago. Pretty interesting reading indeed.
http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

[TwoTired]

Came across this article a few years ago. Pretty interesting reading indeed.
http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

Thanks for that lincoln.

I don't get MCN.  And that article was written in 1994.  Did any of the oil Manufacturers take up the offer to print more definitive test data since this printing?

I would expect not.  Such data would not educate the buying public in a way favorable to the oil companies, even though it is what they (the public) actually need.

Cheers,

[lincoln]

You're welcome twotired. All for the greater good my friend, all for the greater good. As far as I can remember, no-one from the big oil companies ever stepped up to refute mcn's findings. I did find a reference to another article that was fairly interesting as well. It's about halfway down in this link, from a 1996 issue: 

http://members.aol.com/lostpup198/oil/mcnart.html

Just my two cents, I've used castrol gtx, 10w40 in three different CB750's in the last 19 years. Never had a problem,  but that's just my own expierience.