Author Topic: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works  (Read 6523 times)

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Offline brandon

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1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« on: May 21, 2007, 12:19:33 PM »
First Post is a long read, lots of pictures and updates.

I aquired the bike in Octobober of 06' from a man on the North Eastern side of Oahu through an add he posted on Craigslist. I met up with him, took it for a spin around the block, low balled him a few hundred bucks and proceeded to drive it back home to the North Shore of Oahu. Since then, I've been at it, molding it into something a bit more sportier. We are all more or less familiar with the 'cafe' style bikes and that is what I am going for. I enjoy the look of the old racers.

Since the purchase of the bike, I have had several ideas that worked well, and some that didn't really pan out as planned. Delayed parts, lack of parts, and simply waiting on other people has proven to test my patience along with taking much longer than I have anticipated to get to where the bike is now, which to be completely honest, isn't as far as I like. Such as life I suppose.

After powder coating the wheels Championship White just before Christmas of 06', it took about three and a half months to get the tires mounted and to source specific parts for the wheel bearings. Not even reputable sources on line had the parts needed (and I could have very well been looking in the wrong place), which almost resulted in me being SOL with unusable powder coated wheels.

Along with powder coating the wheels, I ordered a Cafe seat. I also ordered hand controls from a 2006 CBR600RR that I was going to convert over too, to give it a more modern look. After seeing the hand controls in person, it was deemed that the original ones were actually smaller, plus they are aluminum. I have the CBR hand controls for sell BTW. I also started stripping things off the bike that I felt were not necessary and/or aesthetically incorrect to the look I was trying to achieve.

Gone are the front and rear blinkers, mirrors, kick start, rear foot pegs, chain guard, front brake (damaged), rear fender, rear tail light, rear license plate bracket and I flipped the handlebars upside down to rake out the seating position.

Back to the wheels, it all finally got sorted out and here are several pictures of them here, fresh from the shop. I decided to stray out on the edge a little bit with the conception of them and had the rims, spokes, nipples, and hubs all powder coated the same color. I am pleased with the outcome and not many people have done this. Before powder coating I had whatever needed to be fixed, fixed and had the wheels trued. To pay homage to Honda Racing, the wheels are powder coated Championship White.




I was considering putting on a tire that was a bit more old school that matched the era of the bike, but decided at the last minute that it would probably be best (and safer) to go with something modern. However, due to the size of the wheels themselves, finding a modern tire in the size needed proved to be a bit of a PITA. Fortunately, I found a decent set of Avon's and the price was right - at around $220.00 for the set. Here are some pictures of the wheels back from the shop with new wheel bearings and the new tires:




I was anxious to get the wheels on the bike to take a look at everything but due to weather, mounting them was postponed for a solid week as the sky pissed its guts out. I finally got a break in the weather and here are a few pictures of the wheels on the bike along with the Cafe seat:




Moving along and trying to make some progress, the Islands were slated for some good weather for several days and I took the opportunity to pull the tank and side covers, sand them down to bare metal and start the initial body work. Here are a couple pictures of the bike with the Cafe seat, primered tank and side covers:




Pulling my attention off of the body work, the original clutch was slipping at higher RPM's. The clutch was slipping around 6K RPM's. I felt this not only to be a bit irritating, but figured it was due time to change the clutch.

To my surprise, the springs that keep tension on the clutch plates were 2.5mm shorter than the new OEM springs (via caliper measurements), respectively. No wonder it was slipping. Here is a picture of an old spring (left) and the new spring (right) along with the clutch assembly:




Now that the clutch problem was solved, I wanted to take a stab at adjusting the valves. I immediately realized that I didn't have the proper tools and feeler gauge to do the job. I still have yet to order them. Procrastinating for no reason :P not to mention that the tappet covers on the bike were so chewed up that I darn near was unable to get them off with out some serious damage to something or another.

These tappet covers that are on the bike are made from this incredibly soft aluminum. Why? I have no idea, but the original ones looked like someone had their way with them with a hammer and a slightly over sized socket. After much hair pulling and getting ahold of a Craftsman bolt reverse out tool, I got them all out and replaced them with new OEM units.

After being content knowing I wouldn't be able to adjust the valves immediately, I turned my attention back to getting the bike painted. More bad weather. It is Hawaii's rainy season after all.

Fortunately to my luck  ;) , another problem had arose and this time it was in the form of a leaking carburettor. My left most carb was dumping fuel like no ones business. If I didn't turn the petcock off, it would dump the whole tank in a matter of an hour. What a #$%*ter.

One Friday night, I had nothing planned so I unbolted the carb assembly and headed into the house to tear them apart to see what the deal was. It takes only four bolts to take the carbs off the engine, and they all come off at the same time. Pretty sweet. Taking my time I went over every piece and thoroughly cleaned it, along with taking measurements to see if everything was within factory specs. None of the floats were...

The carb that was dumping the fuel had a poorly calibrated float. The factory specs for the float in regards to the float bowl flange are supposed to be 21mm (if I can remember correctly) as you will see in the picture. Before I adjusted the float, it was at 25mm. Way too much. With all the floats adjusted, I cleaned out all the bowls and all the needles and put everything back on the bike. Problem solved:




With that solved, we finally got some great weather for a good three weeks, but unfortunately a friend of mine whom had paint guns I was going to borrow, decided to take a trip to Brazil to do a bit of surfing. So that got postponed.

Moving up to this weekend, he was back in town and the weather was expected to be good. I took the opportunity to get everything prepped and painted. I thought it wasn't going to take very long, but it ended up taking me about ten hours. Maybe I'm slow =) All I know is, is that it's the first time I've shot something and it was definitely a great learning experience. I could see myself becoming quite good at it in a controlled environment.

Doing this paint job "Island Style", I got my buddies compressor and gun, and shot everything else in another buddies back yard. Plenty of bugs, plenty of wind, and plenty of dust... Regardless, I think it came out quite well. Here are several pictures of this last Saturday and Sunday (today) 04/21 and 04/22:

Here is the tank and side covers with two coats of blue base:


Here is the tank and seat all taped up to get a Championship White racing stripe to match the wheels:




Here are the side covers with the new decals and ready for clear coat:


Here is the tank with the racing stripe along with new decals ready for clear coat:


Here are several pictures of the tank and side covers with two thick coats of clear (light was fading fast...pictures are a bit dark):






Today I got up early, went surfing :thumbup: then finished the painting. Since the clear cured over night, I hit it with some sand paper and wet sanded it, then hit everything with three more coats of clear. Here are a couple pictures of the parts on the bike, just before it rained on me and more or less the finished product in regards to painting:












So there it is...in all it's glory...kind of. She still needs much more work. As you can see, the seat needs to be upholstered and I'd like to do that myself. Something comfortable yet thin. I've been talking with a leather distributor about getting a yard of white leather, yet I don't know how to do this so it will be a learning process as I go, hence getting a yard of leather.

Along with getting the seat upholstered, I still have yet to order the Yoshimura exhaust, clip ons, powder coat the engine and frame and take care of some small appearance issues. It would be nice to get rid of the OEM tach and speedometer and replace it with a small digital unit. I'll have to source that to see if it is possible and cost effective. There has to be something.

As far as the engine, I'd like to keep it relatively OEM, but see myself building up a spare in the near future with some quality Yoshimura parts that are available. As of late, I've been experimenting with A/F ratios, spark plug gap, plug temp ranges, and timing. Pretty fun stuff.

Small Update: 05/21/2007:

I have been riding the bike more or less on a daily basis. My main mode of transportation (Toyota 4 Runner) is for sale and have not been driving it. Over the past several weeks, I've been having a bit of fun messing with the carbs, spark plug gap, timing and the points. I had her running like a top for about five days and for no appearant reason, she runs very flat up top and at partial throttle, stumbles around a little bit.

In a previous and seperate post, I commented on several different tests that I performed on the ignition system and found that my 1.4 coil was very suspect and possibly on it's way out to pasture.

On that note, I felt it was time to bring the bike into a bit more currant state. I just got off the phone with Z1 and ordered the electric ignition, coils and wires by Dyna. Rob, one of the sales reps there was super cool to talk too. Nice customer service. I was thinking of the 8mm supression wires but opted for the 7mm supression wires instead. I'll hopefully have the parts on the bike this weekend. That would be wicked. Total for the electronic ignition, 5 Ohm coils and spark plug wires shipped from New York to Hawaii is $270.80. Cant beat that. Also, even though messing with the points is fun and easy (have a dwell meter) I simply cannot dismiss the appeal of using an electronic ignition. Not to mention that a decent amount of members on this board have had outstanding results with it.

Offline andy750

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2007, 12:24:33 PM »
Excellent work! I really like the paint job and the wheels look very cool. Very original!

cheers
Andy
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Offline Rhonda750F

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2007, 01:35:30 PM »
I agree, the paint works well and the wheels are slick.  a white seat would really set it off.
Get some proper clubmans or clip ons to complete the racer theme.
And put the kick starter back on, thats part of the cool factor of these old bikes!
Keep the pics comming.
Peace.
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Offline dagersh

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2007, 02:28:12 PM »
Aloha Brando,

That bike looks SICK!!!!!  The colors work great, and the stripe looks awesome.

Congratulations on the great job so far - Keep us posted on further work!

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Offline gtyler5

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2007, 03:34:27 PM »
Yeah that looks really killer, I was not sure about the white wheels but you pulled it together nicely! I would love to find a 400 to build but then I still need to build my other 750 ehhhh it's an addiction... :)
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lendog

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2007, 07:53:46 PM »
Awesome job with the paint! Where did you get the seat from?

Offline Short Round

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2007, 08:38:50 PM »
At first I wasn't very impressed with the wheels until I saw them on the bike with the racing stripe.  After I saw it all put together I have to say that it looks amazing.  I love the colors you used and how the wheels make the stripe pop.  Question...............did you wet sand?  Great job........................Chris
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2007, 09:05:28 PM »
  Ya just need some white leathers now to set it all off ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 09:06:59 PM by SamCR750 »
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Offline brandon

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2007, 09:51:58 PM »
With those wheels, I actually had quite a few guys laugh in my face literally when I was voicing my ideas of powder coating the entire wheel. A couple businesses did the same. Needless to say, they do not get my patrionage anymore. I've been toying with the idea of doing the same thing to another set of wheels, but as the same color red as the Honda emblem on the tank. I feel that would be another complimentary color.

I was confident from the get go that it would work well with the off set racing stripe and the original blue paint color. If anyone wants to know, the blue is the original shade and the white is Honda Championship White. Not really a white, but more like a light cream. If you are curious to see what it looks like on a Honda car, simply google: NSX-R, Integra Type-R, or Civic Type-R. I used to own an Integra Type-R ;)

And for the gentleman who asked, it is not wet sanded but slated to do so soon. Just super busy with work right now. A budy of mine has all the cutting compounds and a buffer so I can get it all done at once.

For the gentleman who mentioned the clip ons, I would like to get those ordered sometime soon as well, but I'm having a really hard time finding them in a 33mm size. I could always shim I guess. I was told by an old timer that if I got say, a set of 34mm clip ons, I could use an aluminum pop can to shim on both sides of the bracket, that more or less equates to 1mm.

Also, I've never made a seat before but would like to get on it soon (literally). My ass is killing me. The only problem is, I don't know where to buy materials such as white leather and the proper foam. Can anyone point me in the right direction for supplies and possibly a 'How-To' on making a seat? That would be much appreciated.

Glad everyone likes it. This thread will be an ongoing process and updated when things present themselves.

Offline bill440cars

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2007, 05:06:24 AM »


          That is one GREAT looking 400F that you'd done there! ;)  I never really thought about it but, when I saw your wheels, I really thought the idea was rather cool. 8)  To me, that idea would work well with several different colors an be a great combination at that. That seat IS a nice looking piece too. Congratulations on doing a great job of breathing NEW life into an old bike!

                                                   Later on, Bill :) ;)
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Offline .RJ

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2007, 05:49:39 AM »
For the gentleman who mentioned the clip ons, I would like to get those ordered sometime soon as well, but I'm having a really hard time finding them in a 33mm size.

Bike looks great brandon - woodcraft carries 33mm clip-ons - I used a set of the 35mm clip-ons for my 750.

http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/Woodcraft_CFM_Motorsports_Clip-Ons--16-WOOD-1.html

Offline dusterdude

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2007, 06:54:53 AM »
very nice,good job.
mark
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Offline brandon

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2007, 06:22:08 PM »
Update: 05/22/2007:

I had contacted a leather company about two weeks ago inquiring about white leather for making a seat. They had a pretty wide selection of paterns and colors on their website so I thought I'd give them a try. They told me that they do not sell small pieces of leather but sell to clients in the furniture industry. Though, the lady who spoke with me was super nice and ended up mailing me a yard of leather for free, shipping and all. Unfortunately, it isn't really what I was looking for. It appears to have a finish to resemble Ostritch leather. I know from building custom yatchs that Ostritch leather is uber expensive. I don't know why, those birds are mental.

Anyways, I folded it up into a rectangle and laid it on the seat pan to get a rough idea of how it would look. As you can see by the first picture, the white almost matches the racing stripe which has a slight cream hue to it. Though, in the second picture, it is obvious that they do not match. Also, since the white stripe is not a true white, using white leather will not match exactly either.

Questions, comments, concerns on this issue? Again if anyone can point me in the right direction to get white leather and the proper seat foam, I'd GREATLY appreciate it.





I also attempted to put my front brake back on my bike. Unfortunately I was halted rather quickly as since my bars are flipped up side down, the master cylinder assembly will not fit. The tach is in the way. This brings me to thinking that I wonder if I will be able to have a front brake when I put clip-ons on the bike. I hate not having a front brake.

Questions, comments, concerns on this issue?

Also, has any one here experimented with Velocity Stacks on their carbs rather than using pods? What were your results and opinions?

Thanks again to all for reading about the build. Check back often  :D
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 06:25:00 PM by brando »

Offline oldbiker

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2007, 01:48:54 AM »
Brandon, remember that about 90% of your braking comes from your front brake. Any emergency braking on back brake only is almost guaranteed to result in a fall, and it would be a shame to damage yourself or a good looking bike. Good luck,  John.

Offline edbikerii

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2007, 04:36:03 AM »
Search above, and you'll find several threads on the selection of master cylinder to allow alternative handlebar choices.  On my CB550 I used the stock master cylinder with pro-flo clip-ons, but I have stainless steel brake lines built up from components.  I was able to rearrange the banjo fitting and hose so that I had enough room for the master cylinder on the clip-ons.  Others have bought later-model master cylinders that are more compact.

I would not even consider riding without a front brake.

I also attempted to put my front brake back on my bike. Unfortunately I was halted rather quickly as since my bars are flipped up side down, the master cylinder assembly will not fit. The tach is in the way. This brings me to thinking that I wonder if I will be able to have a front brake when I put clip-ons on the bike. I hate not having a front brake.
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Offline KB02

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2007, 05:23:45 AM »
I used an aftermarket MC for my front brake. The stocker wouldn't fit properly on the clip ons that I bought. I wouldn't even consider riding a bike without a front brake.
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Offline hopterfixer

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2007, 05:32:20 AM »
I would not worry about the leather not matching perfectly, it is not going to look brand new bright white for long.  As far as padding goes, an yoga mat or sleeping bag mat would work for the base layer of padding with some dense foam for a top layer.  If you decide you don't like the ostrich leather, I would be happy to use it on my seat  ;D   

Offline brandon

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2007, 04:02:29 PM »
I used an aftermarket MC for my front brake. The stocker wouldn't fit properly on the clip ons that I bought. I wouldn't even consider riding a bike without a front brake.

That's the thing. I don't consider myself to be dumb. However, the bike was dropped some time in it's life and it took the brunt of the impact on the front brake lever. This has rendered the front brake darn near useless as when you sqeeze the lever, somewhere in the system the front caliper doesn't release the rotor and it drags dramatically. This is unacceptable and just as dangerous as riding with out a front brake I feel. But at least riding without a brake will not cause me to endo or make the engine work more than it needs too.

So I have several options:
1) Replace the parts in the hand control lever (if that is the case).
2) Replace the hand control lever with another functioning OEM unit.
3) Replace the hand control lever and MC with a different model.

I have in my possession hand controls from a 2006 Honda CBR600RR, but I don't have the front brake lever and MC from it. I can source one on ebay fairly easy. I was considering swapping the original hand controls for these controls as part of making the bike look a bit more modern.

Pictured below are the hand controls from the CBR as well as some guys 400Four that has swapped modern controls on his bike, along with the MC and clip-ons. My only concern is wiring issues and throttle cable issues, but it appears to be pretty straight forward.






Offline brandon

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2007, 05:34:08 PM »
05/24/2007:

I am such a dork :D . I was outside adjusting the points gap with my dwell meter, and adjusting the timing on the plate for my 1.4 timing, and I was so enveloped in the process that I didn't even see the post man drive up, set a box down and drive off. I was working literally 15 feet from the mail box and facing the street. Low and behold, I just got all my Dyna goodies from the fellas at Z1. It took only three days to ship USPS priority from their office to Hawaii.

I'm off to convert this ol' gal to electronic ignition :)


Offline Short Round

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2007, 11:44:39 PM »
I am still convinced that your paint scheme with the wheels is still the best in my book so far.  Great work and please keep up the updates.................Chris
1974 CB550

Offline brandon

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2007, 01:05:08 PM »
I am still convinced that your paint scheme with the wheels is still the best in my book so far.  Great work and please keep up the updates.................Chris

Thanks for that. Much appreciated.

05/25/2007

I've had the Dyna S ignition, coils and wires on for a few days now. Timed the ignition to WOT and full advance as instructed by the Dyna installation instrucations and by reiteration by several members here on the boards (thanks guys).

One thing that I haven't sourced out is that up top...about 4500RPM and up, the bike is really flat in the power department. I'm figuring it is a sync issue and A/F issue. Im planning on pulling the carbs off here in a minute to bench sync them again.

One interesting thing I noticed is that when I have the bike in neutral and turn the aux power off, I get this noise that seems to be coming out the right most carb as like a back fire maybe? It makes this subtle yet noticable noise: Pffft-sshhhh.... does it just once. Never did that when I had the points on the bike with the OEM coils. Remember the coil for the 1.4 was also going bad.

I've also done several plug chops at various RPM and found that the right most spark plug is also fouling.

All A/F screws are set at 2 turns out and the other three spark plugs look fantastic.

I have no idea why it should be doing this (weird noise when switching aux power off and plug fowling), but I know that it shouldn't be doing that. Curious if anyone knows what it is?

Thanks,
Brandon
« Last Edit: May 27, 2007, 01:16:48 PM by brando »

Ben

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2007, 04:59:57 PM »
Hiya,

The noise you are hearing sounds like the noise made when your intake valve is not fully sealing on the compression stroke. Check your tappet clearance first (may be too tight), failing this you may need to check the condition of your valve/valve seats. Sounds like a big job but if you take your time it is a piece of cake.

Cheers,

Ben.

Offline aptech77

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2007, 08:40:45 PM »
Looks good............ ;)

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2007, 04:24:39 AM »
I used an aftermarket MC for my front brake. The stocker wouldn't fit properly on the clip ons that I bought. I wouldn't even consider riding a bike without a front brake.


OEM style brake levers are ~$4. If you want to keep the stock MC then just order in a new lever and a rebuild kit. If you order the rebuild kit, do yourself a favor and order the $22 MC snap ring pliers from Motion Pro (z1 sells them) that circlip in the MC is nearly impossible to get out without the proper tool. PartsNMore.com sells a universal MC for ~$75 which would be a better candidate for your bike than the one off of a CBR. CBRs are dual disc bikes and the MCs are set up to move enough fluid to move two sets of calipers, you may have some issues there. While you are monkeying around with the brakes and are going to have to bleed them anyway you might as well disassemble the caliper and clean it up and replace the seal in there. Also pull your bleeder out, clean it and wrap some teflon tape around the threads prior to re-installation.

Terry in New Orleans

Offline brandon

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Re: 1975 CB400 Four Cafe' Project In The Works
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2007, 06:21:06 PM »
Terry, I'll do that next. Thanks for the info. I need to get that front brake back on and working. Good advice.

05/31/07

After the Dyna ignition swap I was having some gremlins. One, the battery was just about dead after every ride. Couldn't figure it out. I had been doing a lot of timing checks prior to the Dyna swap on the points to get the bike running right. I was also doing the same to get the Dyna dialed in. I'm thinking the battery going dead was because of several things: The timing light drawing power off of the battery, running the bike at idle, and the head light staying on. For now, I snipped the head light wires and ran them to an auxilery switch so it isn't on during the day time. I know it's a safey issue not having the light on all the time, but in all honesty, my commute to work is a mile and a half away down a rural neighborhood street at 25mph. It's not a big deal to me.

Another thing that was happening was that I was getting sputtering and bubbling from idle to 5000RPM. I've done about fifteen plug chops in the last several days trying to figure out what was going on. The other night I thought it a good idea to pull the cars to check the floats. Low and behold, #1 and #3 were a bit out of spec. I readjusted, checked a few other things while I was in there, did another sync with a high powered LED flashlight and put them back on the bike.

For fun, once on the bike, I used some Tri Flow and lubed all the moving parts on the carbs. Smooth as butter now. As far as running, I also re adjusted the A/F screws and now she runs like a champ and very happy with the ignition. Granted, I live in Hawaii but with the new ignition I can start the bike with out a choke and simply walk away from it as it warms up. Plus there is no maintanence involved with the new igntion as most of you know.

As far as battery power, it is all there. Must have been running the test light at idle that was straining the battery.