Author Topic: Battery Charging Question  (Read 1468 times)

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Offline Chicago550

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Battery Charging Question
« on: June 15, 2007, 09:13:33 PM »
How often should I have to charge the battery on my 550K that I use for daily commuting? I'm in the city so RPM's rarely go over 4000. I ride with the lights on which obviously draws juice but I have had to charge the battery every other day or else it drains causing me to kickstart. Is this normal? I bought the battery last year and have always used a Diehard trickle charger similar to a battery tender. Also, the cells are filled properly.
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Offline ofreen

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Re: Battery Charging Question
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2007, 01:03:22 AM »
It is true that a lot of slow riding can cause the problem of the battery not being sufficiently charged.  The situation you have described doesn't sound normal, though.  Do you have a multimeter to use to check the charging system's output?
Greg
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"I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question." - Dr. Wei-Hock Soon

Offline edbikerii

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Re: Battery Charging Question
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2007, 04:37:37 AM »
If you rarely go over 4K RPM, then you are really lugging that engine, even in city traffic.  You don't get any charging at all until you reach 3K RPM.  In fact, you are DISCHARGING whenever the engine is below 3K RPM.  This is the normal operation of the system (it is not like your car that charges, even at idle).  Don't be in such a hurry to shift to second.  You don't even get any power on a 550 until you get over 5K RPM.

What kinds of electrical modifications has your bike got?  Dyna coils?  If so, the 3 ohm coil is known to cause charging problems, whereas the 5 ohm coil is fine.  Uprated headlight?  Accessory lights?

The CB550's charging system is just barely adequate for a completely stock bike.  Any accessories or uprated components can tax the system and leave you with a dead battery.

It really sounds to me like you just need to get your revs up, and you'll be OK.
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

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croquesaveur

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Re: Battery Charging Question
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2007, 07:47:42 AM »
I recently installed an ammeter gauge that I bought on Ebay on my 1978 CB550K (it was from an old tractor).  I was actually quite surprised at the charging capacity.

At 1000RPM idle (with the headlight and brake light on): 10-11 amps drain. 
At 2300RPM: 0 amps drained. 
Anything above 2300RPM and you're charging the battery.
If the battery is depleted (such as idling for a while) the charge rate: 8-10 amps
When the battery reaches a full charge the charge rate changes to: 1 amp.

The reason I installed the ammeter is because I want to plug accessories into the bike (particularly, I want to be able to charge batteries while I'm riding) and I figure there's no easy way to do this if I can't see how much juice I'm drawing.


Offline TwoTired

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Re: Battery Charging Question
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2007, 11:14:52 AM »
How often should I have to charge the battery on my 550K that I use for daily commuting?
Never.  Or, possibly every six years when the battery wears out.
I'm in the city so RPM's rarely go over 4000.
Well, I hope you've put a 750 tach on the bike so your actual revs are higher than that.
I ride with the lights on which obviously draws juice but I have had to charge the battery every other day or else it drains causing me to kickstart. Is this normal?
 
Not if the bike has all stock components and all your connectors and switches are making good low resistance connections that don't waste power.
I bought the battery last year and have always used a Diehard trickle charger similar to a battery tender. Also, the cells are filled properly.
Lead acid "starting type" batteries last the longest when they are not discharged.  The more they are "worked" or the charge level changed the shorter their life.  This is because the acid actually removes metal from the plates as it discharges and then puts it back on during recharge.  The plate separator technology determines where the metal is replaced as it does not automatically redeposit back to its original location.  Over time, and cycles large gaping holes can develop in the plates, significantly reducing the plate area and battery delivery capacity. Deep cycle batteries have a special separator to limit the metal migration.  Further, the plates are originally made porous to give a larger surface area when new.  The plates lose this porosity with repeated recharge cycles as there is no mechanism to "foam" the plate material during a normal recharge cycle.

I don't know the charge rate of the "Diehard trickle charger" if it is more than 1.4 amps it cannot completely charge the 550 battery without a little damage each time.  And, if left on beyond a 95% charge (about) then it will overheat the battery even more so.

The Tenders are the way to go as they adjust their charge rate to battery level of charge, and without extra damage beyond what normally occurs during a recharge process.

The 550 charging system makes about 150 Watts at 5000 RPM, and about 40-50 Watts at idle.  The stock electrical draw is about 110-120 watts depending on what is switched on. So, somewhere between idle and 5000 RPM, the alternator will make enough power to spare the battery drain but no more.  Then above that RPM, it will begin charging the battery.  The recharge process is not 100% efficient, so the alternator must supply 110- 120% of the power that was removed from the battery by electric start (1800 Watts per second) and any drain on the battery while the alternator was spinning slower than the bike's power drain break point RPM.

You'll notice the 74 550 has a headlight switch.  When the bike was first made, operating with the headlight on was only expected at night.  The battery will maintain a charge much better without the headlight on.  Legislators change the operating assumptions after the system was designed.  About 1976 or so, all motorcycles had to have the headlight on while it was running.  Honda did not redesign the alternator in response to legislation until the 650 model.

At any rate, your bike has a problem.  My 74 550 behaves like your does.  The problem with mine is the field coil that measures 7 ohms instead of the 4.9 ohms it is supposed to have.  This makes my alternator put out less than the 150 Watts it should make and I need 4000 RPM to reach the charging breakpoint.  I have a replacement field coil for it.  But, I haven't devised a method of badge removal off the alternator cover without expecting damage to one or the other.  So, in the meantime I put the lower wattage stock headlight back in it and drive without the headlight during the day and stick it on the Tender at home while it is in the garage.  I also have the stock turn flasher that I use as a battery voltage monitor.  If it flashes normal or fast, the battery voltage is good.  If it flashes slow or not at all, I nudge up the idle RPMs with the twist grip until they flash again.   I admit it's repair priority is low due to other available bikes in my collection.  My other 550's don't have this problem.

Lastly, you can easily waste or lose 10% or more of the bike's actual energy useage, with extra resistance in the switch contacts and electrical connectors in the bike's power distribution system that occur over time and use.  With the marginal system of the 550, this can make a 500-1000 RPM difference in the battery charging breakpoint RPM.

Cheers,




Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Chicago550

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Re: Battery Charging Question
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2007, 04:15:43 PM »
Thanks for all of the great info. I do have a dyna coil on the bike and a new headlight (all other electrics are stock). I'll have to check out the ohms on the coil and switch back to the old light (I'll clean  the connections when I do this and coat everything with dielectric grease). I do have a multimeter but must admit that I am clueless when it comes to electrics. I looked in the FAQ's before I posted and saw that Twotired had some in-depth explanations on multimeter use so I'll give that a good read. I'll probably get a battery tender while I'm at it especially since my bike died on me last night. Luckily this happened after the Mods vs. Rockers ride which was wet but way fun. I was riding home when the bike just died (The 15amp fuse blew—I noticed a dent in one of the caps also when I removed the fuse). I popped in a new one and she started right up.
75 CB550
70 CB350 gone to new home