Author Topic: Do I need a new chain?  (Read 2428 times)

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Mountainman

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Do I need a new chain?
« on: May 30, 2007, 12:54:12 PM »
I was trying to tension my chain and found it to be impossible. It will be VERY slack as I rotate the back wheel until I hit a certain spot and then it becomes VERY tight. I’ve checked the rear wheel alignment and its fine. I have read that in the FAQ section that this pretty much means that I need to replace my chain, but I would like to hear if anyone else has gone through this.  Thanks, Greg.
 

Offline edbikerii

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2007, 12:57:13 PM »
Yes you need a new chain.  If you have a 550 don't buy an o-ring or an x-ring.

Good luck

I was trying to tension my chain and found it to be impossible. It will be VERY slack as I rotate the back wheel until I hit a certain spot and then it becomes VERY tight. I’ve checked the rear wheel alignment and its fine. I have read that in the FAQ section that this pretty much means that I need to replace my chain, but I would like to hear if anyone else has gone through this.  Thanks, Greg.
 
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2007, 01:03:06 PM »
and sprockets
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline nippon

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2007, 01:29:38 PM »
Probably, you need a new chain and rear sprocket,...i would replace the front sprocket, too.

BUT,
when there is a slacky and a thight point when you turn the wheel,
mostly this is the result of stamped sprockets, they are poor, even when they are new. It's no chain thing.
Sometimes the mounting holes are out of the axle center. Check it.
Try to get a milled (grinded) rear sprocket and the chain tension should be the same at every point when you turn
around the wheel. Don't buy cheap stamped sprockets.
A new chain only will not solve your problem.

How many miles did you drive the chain/sprocket combo?

nippon.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 01:35:34 PM by nippon »

Mountainman

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2007, 01:52:34 PM »
Yes you need a new chain.  If you have a 550 don't buy an o-ring or an x-ring.

Good luck

 
Quote

I have a 1976 CB550. Why should I avoid the o-ring or x-ring? If not an o-ring or an x-ring then what should I get?

Offline 333

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2007, 01:56:49 PM »
Always replace chain and sprockets together.  They wear together.  Unless something necessitates a new part in the first 800 to 1000 miles,(bad sprocket,ratio change...) follow this rule or the new part will get eaten up drastically fast.
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Offline Blaize

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2007, 02:02:13 PM »
an o or x ring chain is too wide for the 550. It will dig into the engine case over time. The bikes casme with std. chains and with normal maint. there is no real reason to spend the extra anyway. On top of all that std. chains are a good deal cheaper
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Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2007, 02:10:07 PM »
Mountainman....buy new. Sounds like you have the same problem I had. adjusters were all the way back....no more room for adjusting. Took me a few times to figure out that was the problem. I would adjust the chain....ride it around the yard and it would be way too tight. Re-adjusted then it would be too slack. chain ended up having 3 master links in it and several links were kinked. Will not straighten out now that the chain is off the bike. Cant believe I didnt fling that chain.





How many miles did you drive the chain/sprocket combo?

nippon.

Why you ask nippon?  Miles on the chain/sprockets? Or would it have an effect on final drive bearings......going tight-slack-tight,etc?

Jusk asking because I had the same problem. I put a few miles on the bike with it like that. I now have new JT sprockets and a EK 530MVXZ chain. Did it hurt anything??  I can tell the bike accellerates smoother now.




Offline edbikerii

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2007, 03:07:55 PM »
And don't forget the o-ring chains are much heavier and the additional friction from the o-rings eats up horsepower.

an o or x ring chain is too wide for the 550. It will dig into the engine case over time. The bikes casme with std. chains and with normal maint. there is no real reason to spend the extra anyway. On top of all that std. chains are a good deal cheaper
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

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Offline Hockers Choppers

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2007, 03:13:59 PM »
I put a cheap ($30) chain on my cb750f and it was wasted in 200 miles!! Bike gets riden very hard but still! I have a x-ring on now with no problems, even after the big bore, cam, etc. Best $90 I ever spent. Don't get cheap on something that could waste you cases.
The thing about common sense is that, it's not that common.

1978 CB750F SUPERSPORT 850cc, cam, porting, dyna ign, cr29's lotsa elbow grease and $$'s. Worth ever penny!!  (S0ld)

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Offline nippon

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2007, 03:50:17 PM »
@KCs76Cafe,
your final drive bearings will not be hurt. I wanted to know if the tight/slack problem is on a new or old chain sprocket combo.
If it would be a new combo, then it would confirm my thoughts about stamped sprockets.
JT sprockets are a good choice.

Mountainman

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2007, 05:01:23 PM »
Thanks for all the replies everybody. I'm going to replace the chain and the sprockets. The only problem I have now is that every standard 530 chain I find on line says "400cc max" Grrrrrrrrr!

Offline edbikerii

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2007, 05:44:34 PM »
Get a 530H for Heavy Duty.  Or perhaps more relevant, remember that an old cb550 doesn't have the horsepower or torque of a modern 400cc bike.

Thanks for all the replies everybody. I'm going to replace the chain and the sprockets. The only problem I have now is that every standard 530 chain I find on line says "400cc max" Grrrrrrrrr!
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

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Offline Gordon

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2007, 07:56:37 PM »
Get your standard 530 chain from loudfastugly.com. 

Offline jaknight

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2007, 08:26:44 PM »
My Thoughts, ;) ;),


     You may disregard the original writer's reasons about O rings, since he was speaking about Honda 750's, not the 550.  Please read on, it will make sense.

     I got to the point where I felt a new chain and sprockets were becoming a serious consideration.  I contacted one of the well regarded members on this forum; well known for his savvy on the K series bikes.  I will leave his name out; I do not want to put him on the spot to defend his views; however, you may consider this my view because I agree with him 100%.......... I am using his words because he said it so well.  And, once again, he illustrates that things may not be as simple as they seem............ I didn't know about the angled, offset sprockets of Honda's design.........

   This is Beginning of Quote:

    " I am a big fan of Honda's own sprockets for a couple of reasons:

   1. Honda tapered the teeth because the sprockets do not run dead true in line. The taper makes
the chain track easier to the settling points in the teeth, improving power transfer, smoothness
and quietness.

   2. The "base circle" of Honda's own sprockets are .5mm to .8mm larger than standard ANSI
sprockets. This was done to improve chain longevity and quietness, and it causes the sprockets
and chain to work together more smoothly and wear together as a mated pair.

   I, too, dislike O-ring chains on these bikes. The main reason is this non-inline tracking that
Honda went with on this design. I don't know exactly why they did this, but it remained on the
whole "K" series. I'm not sure about the "F" series, I've never checked. O-ring chains raise
the quandry of lubricants: a lube that's good for the chain-to-sprocket contact is bad for the
O-rings, and vice-versa. I have had the absolute best luck with Diamond's non-O-ring chains
(try a Kawasaki shop, they often seem to have them) because they have an extra .005" clearance
between the edges of the rollers and the sideplates, and everything is hardened to a high
degree. They also have an extra .002" clearance inside the rollers so lube can work its way
in by wicking action when the sprockets kick the chain sideways (because of the misalignments),
which also forces water and grit out at the same time. This chain will cost $120, but it's
worth it.

   The next best choice is Reynold's chains, IMO. These are available at Triumph shops, as they
are British chains. They are very hard and have extra sideplate clearances, like the Diamond,
for better sprocket entry and exit action, too, which is a common need on British bikes (also
misaligned). These can run $150.

   Many of the late 1960s hi-power bike designs ran this "parallel sprockets" configuration
(instead of inline). It seems the thinking was that having the rear sprocket closer to the
centerline of the frame would reduce the leverage across the axle, especially when the engines
were getting wider and wider. In the case of the CB750K, the swingarm is so strong that I don't
think it mattered, but on a Norton Commando it made a real noticeable difference, because the
swingarm wasn't so stiff.

   I've tried many, many different combinations: the aluminum sprockets are very short-lived and
don't have the tapered teeth edges, but are popular with racers because of the light weight.
O-rings work on 630 size chains because there are far fewer teeth and joints in a given system,
but they rob power with those dragging seals, and they still need lube, anyway, so I can't see
the advantage. I can get nearly 50,000 miles from a set of Honda sprockets with a Diamond XLR
series chain, while no other chain I ever used got more than 15,000 before it became snatchy
and uneven and noisy, which tears up sprockets quick. I use Kal-Gard moly chain lube (still
have half a case!), because it "sets up" and sticks real well to the chain, needing very little
lube to do the job. One (big) can lasts about 12,000 miles if the chain is washed and relubed
at the carwash at 1,000 mile intervals."

    End of Quote

     After more than 60 years of buying, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you get what you pay for; there are no free lunches.........

     ~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~
« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 08:42:47 PM by jaknight »
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Offline gar

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2007, 10:04:07 AM »
Greg, I experienced the very same thing:
Quote
I was trying to tension my chain and found it to be impossible. It will be VERY slack as I rotate the back wheel until I hit a certain spot and then it becomes VERY tight. I’ve checked the rear wheel alignment and its fine. I have read that in the FAQ section that this pretty much means that I need to replace my chain, but I would like to hear if anyone else has gone through this.

My chain and sprockets looked good, but behaved like yours does.  In two spots the links were binding, causing the chain to tighten, then slacken when rotated. 
What I did was 1) carefully align the wheel by systematically tightening the adjuster bolt on each side of the swing arm the same, and 2) clean the chain.  Mine is continuous (no master link) so rather than remove the swing arm to soak the chain in kerosene, I sprayed the chain liberally with WD-40 (which is substantially kerosene I've been told) and used a kitchen scrub brush to scrub the chain clean.  I spun the wheel slowly and cleaned the entire chain, using the whole can of WD40.... but the chain is now perfectly fine. 
When you are done, spray some good chain lubricant on it.

Good luck!
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Mountainman

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2007, 08:32:46 PM »
Thanks for the tip GAR. I would try to salvage my chain but my 550 is my daily rider (40 miles daily to and from work every day) so I just decided to replace everything just to be safe. I've got a set of JT sprockets and an RK chain on the way.  ;D

Mountainman

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Re: Do I need a new chain? UPDATE!
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2007, 12:12:51 PM »
So I got my new sprockets and chain in finally and installed them….WOW, I knew that they needed to be replaced but I had no idea what a difference it would make. . I had thought that the old ones weren’t that bad but damn was I wrong.  When I compared the new sprockets to the old ones it was insane how bad the old ones looked. I went for my first ride after installing the new chain and sprockets and what a difference. It rode like a dream. If anyone thinks that they MIGHT need to change their chain and sprockets, ya probably do. Thanks again for everyone’s advise.

  Greg 

Offline Gordon

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Re: Do I need a new chain?
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2007, 02:01:51 PM »
Thanks for the update!  It's always nice to hear how something worked out. :)