Topic: Homemade Manometer

[mark]

Well. Now I've gone and done it..... wandering around wallyworld and over in the corner with the fish tank stuff was 25' of air hose for $2.78 ...... had thought about the fish store down the road but it was down the road and the truck is a pig. oh well. anyway.....

25' fish tank hose  - $2.78
2 t-fittings           - shop stuff.
4 toy mig tips       - more shop stuff.
nuts and orings     - ditto.
4 K&L slow jets     - leftovers.
pegboard             - more shop stuff.

Put it together with a mess of cheap zip-ties and violá:
   


Used my squirty oilcan to pump some synthetic-blend outboard oil (neat lookin' green stuff) until it sits about half full. I'm thinking that those carb-jet 'restrictors' should be extra effective down at the bottom of the device in the oil as they are..... with a bit more persistance the KL main jets might go in if it turns out to be too restricted.(#%&* o-ring grooves)






I didn't get to try it out today but hope to do so in the next couple of days.

If it ends up in the can, I'm out a whole $2.78 . If it works, I'll be pleased and possibly even amused.


Happy trails.

[martino1972]

im not sure about the restricors in the oil,i would say they are more effective above the oil,just my 2 cents

[Buber]

Seriously, they are not THAT needed - at least in my setup having small passage from fish-tank connectors at the bottom was enough. At tickover of, say 1200-1400 rpm the oil in the tube was not fluctuating at all.

[Tower]

I've posted this caution before, but I'll do it again because some folks may not have seen it.  The problem of equalizing pressure in tubing is also experienced in household plumbing of multi-head showers.  The solution can be applied to manometer design as well.

That is, if you are going to use tubing for the bottom portion of the manometer, you must consider the flow properties of liquids within a tube.  Connecting same diameter tubing in this configuration:
  I I  I I
   Y   Y
     V
will result in inaccurate readings.  The reason is that the pressure is not equalized across all 4 tubes  Tubes 1&2 interact and tubes 3&4 interact before allowing pressure to equalize.

The proper way to configure tubes of equal diameter is as follows:
  ____
  |    |
  | T |
  | T |
  | T |
  | T |
  |__|    
Where, the four gauge tubes connect to the bottom of the T and the cross tubes all connect to two common tubes, one on either side of the T.  This configuration ensures equal pressure to all 4 gauge tubes.

Alternately, a tube of minimum 3.5x gauge tube diameter (sealed at both ends), can be used as a common tube into which the 4 gauge tubes can tap. i.e.

  _I_I_I_I_ 
 I________I

The larger the diameter of the common tube, the more it acts like a reservoir, and the more steady and accurate the measurement will be.

[zeus87]

Heres where I am...1/8 hose, two 1/8 fittings, four plastic barbs (standard thread, fit tight with teflon tape).  Upon start up it sucked the oil right through....Is going to 1/4 I.D. the answer?  Thanks

[Priscbs]

A couple things you can do to help are to have a few inches of rubber vac line for the actual to the manifold attachment, and to stick some kind of restrictors in the lines.  For the restrictors, I like to use old pilot jets.  The vinyl tubing gets very soft when warmed by the bike and can leak air.  The air leak is what will allow the bike to continue pulling fluid all the way through to the bike.

[Buber]

The vinyl tubing gets very soft when warmed by the bike and can leak air.  The air leak is what will allow the bike to continue pulling fluid all the way through to the bike.

Why do you think the tubes should be warm? There's no temperature interaction at all!
For the problem - watch the tubes closely, i.e, see which one sucks the oil fast, then switch off the engine and do 1/2 turn on the regulation screw of that carb. That way next time you launch the bike it will go more slowly, and you will have more time to do the adjustment.
Or - use bigger diameter tubes.
Good luck!

[zeus87]

thanks, i think im going to try bigger tube.

[MoTo-BunnY]

For those doing the gauge-type balancers, here's some more pictures and information for ya! (hope this alleviates any residual confusion on construction) 

I just finished them up in my hillbilly laboratory bike shop, so I thought I would post the final results.



I added the springs on the hoses (like the Hondaline set sports) to prevent the hose pinching up when in use.





Closeup (*duh*)





My fancy gauge calibration tool (lol). I can't believe how well this works! Just hook up the end on a hose, with the 'dampener' valve open, and draw all the way to 60ML - it took the gauge up to '20"'. It showed that the gauges, right out of the box, are VERY close to one another - within a single tick mark on the scale. You could replicate the exact same reading over and over - even when going to another gauge and testing it, then coming back to the first one. I couldn't figure out how to actually adjust the gauge yet, so for now I just marked the one gauge that was a tad low and the one that was a tad high to compensate for, when I am comparing all four gauges and carburetors at the same time.

Also, fooling around with the syringe thingy showed that adjusting the 'dampener' "damper" valves did NOT change the gauge reading. Again, the ball valves / dampers are just for being able to constrict the flow a bit to calm the needle down, if its flicking back and forth too wide of a range to be able to accurately read. Referring to carb synching, the Honda OEM CB500/550 manual reads as such, on page 8: "NOTE: If the gauge needle is oscillating over a wide range, dampen the movement with the vacuum adjuster on the gauge"





What I tried to copy - the OEM Hondaline set. 



The final picture, below, which you can blow up bigger (click on it) shows all the components:

• NoShok Gauge (30" Hg Vacuum - 1/8"NPT male connector)
  (feeBay link)NOSHOK 1.5" Dial Size 1/8" NPT 30" Hg Vacuum Gauge NIB
• Teflon Tape (for sealing threads)
• Ball Valve (total overkill size - you can use smaller! lol - 1/8"NPT female connectors)
• Brass 1/4" Barb Fitting (1/8"NPT male connector)
• (to left of above) Chrome Plated Brass 1/4" Barb Fitting Manifold Vacuum Port Adapter (5mm male thread)
• Spring Clip Hose Clamp
• 7/32" Vacuum Hose (you could also probably use 1/4")
• Spring (C-754 at True Value Hardware (11/16" x 3" x .047" ~ 17.475mm x 76.2mm x 1.194mm)

NOTE: 1/8" NPT is actually like 3/8" x 27tpi (dunno why it is called 1/8"?!  lol) Also - 1/8" barb is referring to the inside hole, maybe? as the barb is actually like 1/4" or so. Actually, it is a 1/4" barb fitting - I found out today that these pieces were in the wrong bin at True Value hardware, that said 1/8" barb. Sawry 

[MoTo-BunnY]

BUT THAT'S NOT ALL!!!  . . .  (lol)

My OTHER project I just finished up, as well, compliments the carb balancer set quite nicely.



Accessory gas tank! I asked my craphound stuff collector neighbor if he had anything with a small gas tank, broken and laying around. What-do-ya-know, he had an old broken leaf blower that he was going to "get around to fixing some day" but a couple of beers (Moosehead) was able to convince him to not bother and give it to me. (as well as the fact that when we were looking at the leaf blower and he turned it over, a bunch of water poured out of the engine. . .lol)

I couldn't use the built in gas line it had (the black plug up top) and converted it to gravity feed. I drilled a hole near the bottom, tapped the thick plastic 1/8" NPT (crude threads - just to hold it while the JB weld cured). I used a brass 1/4" barb (1/8" NPT) with a washer and neoprene gasket and JB welded it all together. I then ran 1/4" gas hose down to a brass splitter, with two short lengths of hose and filters on both end that plug right into the existing gas line going to each pair of carbs.



In action - well, mock-up stage.    It will be nice to not have the regular gas tank in the way, when tuning up the carbs. The Honda manual actually suggests to just prop the regular gas tank up higher some, in order to tune the carbs. Sounds like an accident (tank dent) waiting to happen, to me - thus, the accessory tank. 

[Tower]

@MoTo-Bunny, that`s a fabulous reconstruction of the Hondaline manometer. Lookin`good!

[MJL]

I've posted this caution before, but I'll do it again because some folks may not have seen it.  The problem of equalizing pressure in tubing is also experienced in household plumbing of multi-head showers.  The solution can be applied to manometer design as well.

That is, if you are going to use tubing for the bottom portion of the manometer, you must consider the flow properties of liquids within a tube.  Connecting same diameter tubing in this configuration:
  I I  I I
   Y   Y
     V
will result in inaccurate readings.  The reason is that the pressure is not equalized across all 4 tubes  Tubes 1&2 interact and tubes 3&4 interact before allowing pressure to equalize.

The proper way to configure tubes of equal diameter is as follows:
  ____
  |    |
  | T |
  | T |
  | T |
  | T |
  |__|    
Where, the four gauge tubes connect to the bottom of the T and the cross tubes all connect to two common tubes, one on either side of the T.  This configuration ensures equal pressure to all 4 gauge tubes.

Alternately, a tube of minimum 3.5x gauge tube diameter (sealed at both ends), can be used as a common tube into which the 4 gauge tubes can tap. i.e.

  _I_I_I_I_ 
 I________I

The larger the diameter of the common tube, the more it acts like a reservoir, and the more steady and accurate the measurement will be.

I posted similar on page 2. there was a pic of one setup that would have worked well, instead of connecting all the tubes together they just went straight down to a pop/soda bottle reservoir.


I tried to set my sync by eye and failed miserably. the bike wouldn't idle smoothly, it just went up and down as each cylinder fought the others. finally I reset them by eye, using the brown marks in the bores as a guide and got close. Mercury sticks would have finished them off but they fluctuated too much for an accurate reading.

thanks for the aquarium valve idea, I'll be going to the fish store in the morning.

[MoTo-BunnY]

@MoTo-Bunny, that`s a fabulous reconstruction of the Hondaline manometer. Lookin`good!

thank ya!  and maaaaaan, does it work well, too  - just finally got my bike synched up the other day and WHAT  a difference!

Everything worked GREAT and for those doing this product themselves, I would HIGHLY suggest some kind of adjustable damper valve (like both mine and the Hondaline unit use). I found that there was a very small 'sweet spot' that I set the ball-valves to to get the needle 'twitching' in a narrow range, so that the readings could be compared. You may be able to just use some kind of fixed restrictor, but you will probably need trial and error to figure out what size to use.

ALSO - though I just copied the Hondaline units (which are in inches Hg scale) I noticed all the manuals I have seem to quote the scale readings in kg/cm2? *doh* Just something to consider, when gauge shopping. The conversion is 1"Hg = 0.034 kg/cm². There are several sites that have calculators and conversion tables for this, too, like:

http://www.sensorsone.co.uk/pressure-units-conversion.html

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-units-converter-d_569.html



MY BIKE IS RUNNING BETTER THAN IT EVER HAS - SYNCH THOSE CARBS, PEOPLE!!!            IT MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!       

[Buber]

MY BIKE IS RUNNING BETTER THAN IT EVER HAS - SYNCH THOSE CARBS, PEOPLE!!!            IT MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!       

Absolutely! But..... only if they were out of sync in the first place....

[MoTo-BunnY]

MY BIKE IS RUNNING BETTER THAN IT EVER HAS - SYNCH THOSE CARBS, PEOPLE!!!            IT MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!       

Absolutely! But..... only if they were out of sync in the first place....

ya THINK? ? ?   

[VaFJR1300]

Couldn't Agree with Your assessment of CaSportTouring.com more!!  Worst example of customer service ever!  Just got off of the phone with CaSportTouring.com checking on a Stebel Compact Nautilus horn.  Ordered the item 10 days ago and was just checking to see why I hadn't received.  Was told that the item stilled had not shipped, even though it was supposed to be in stock 10 days ago.  When I asked if it could be expedited, I was told that it was already going to ship USPS Priority and that I would receive it in another 4-5 days.  I asked why it hadn't shipped and the lady said "I don't know".  She asked if I still wanted it and I said yes that I had been waiting for it.  I made the comment that I assumed it was a "live and learn situation" and that I guess I would just not order from them again.  Hung up the phone and almost immediately got a call from "Ken".  He said that he was going to take care of the issue since I had told his customer service rep that I wasn't going to order from them again and said he was "going to accomodate me" and was going to cancel the order.  I told him that it was the most unique approach to customer service I had ever seen!!!  I pay for the item, I wait, I call, I complain, he cancels!  Good luck if you deal with these people....maybe your experience will be vastly different!  I hope for your sake it is!!!

Sorry for the rant as well....just had a horrible experience and wondered if I was alone...evidently I am NOT the exception!!!

[MoTo-BunnY]

Like I said, my experience with them was one of the all around worst I have yet to experience ever, on internet purchases (of which I make a LOT of). I think I am going to go and post a 'warning' in the bad sellers section - they REALLY deserve it, especially with the way they seem to be unable to make any attempts to contact you via e-mail, to notify you of delays, etc.

It would really suit them to just label stuff as "out of stock and we have no idea if or when they might ship - also, we will act annoyed any time you inquire about it" as that seems to be their preferred sales technique. 


Also, you will LOVE the Stebel Nautilus air-horn! (if you manage to finally find one! I got mine off of feebay and just so you know, there is an all chrome version available too, that is quite fetching) Installing it was one of THE best safety things I have done yet with motorcycling - it really wakes up the clueless drivers out there to your presence (though they think at first, it's a Kenworth big-rig about to bear down upon them in vengeance. .  .he he he)

[MoTo-BunnY]

Couldn't Agree with Your assessment of CaSportTouring.com more!!  Worst example of customer service ever! Sorry for the rant as well....just had a horrible experience and wondered if I was alone...evidently I am NOT the exception!!!

I just posted a warning (see thread link, below) about these @ss-clowns in the SOHC/4 Reviews & Feedback area and encourage you (and anyone else stung by California Sport Tuning's gross incompetence & crappy customer 'service') to share your stories and alert others, too. After all, it was a recommendation on this site that motivated me to do business with them, to begin with, so I feel others should hear about their 'issues'.

Reviews & Feedback - Bad Folks
California Sport Touring Inc. S-U-C-K-S !!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=38440.0

[OldSchool_IsCool]

It was prolly a recommendation I posted.   Guess I caught them on a good day!  Perhaps the boss had gone fishing when I ordered my vacuum port adapters and a new employee, not yet aware of the store policy on poor service, took the bold step of actually fulfilling the order.  I'm sure that employee has since been hunted down and dealt with severely! 

I still have the CaSportTuring adapters, but ordered a different set of adapters from Z1 because they have the long reach adapters making the center ports easier to reach.

[MoTo-BunnY]

It was prolly a recommendation I posted.   Guess I caught them on a good day!  Perhaps the boss had gone fishing when I ordered my vacuum port adapters and a new employee, not yet aware of the store policy on poor service, took the bold step of actually fulfilling the order.  I'm sure that employee has since been hunted down and dealt with severely!  <--- L O L -  I think u are totally right about catching them before their 'policy change'!

I still have the CaSportTuring adapters, but ordered a different set of adapters from Z1 because they have the long reach adapters making the center ports easier to reach.

I was going to ask you for a link on those, to check them out, but after a bit of a search, I found them on the Z1 Enterprises site:

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=3263



Vacuum Carb Sync Adapter Kit 5mm
MP08-0013 - 5mm Brass Adapter kit - set of 4 brass adapters 2 x 2", 2 x 4" - $11.62


I wish the image was a bit clearer, to see their construction, better. I like the idea of the longer adapters, for the middle two vacuum ports - the Hondaline set has those kind in it. I found those middle ports kinda a pain to get to (with my, shorter adapters) even with my small hands. 

Thanks for letting me (and us) know about the Z1 adapters, 'School!

[Sporkfly]

Well, glass bottles + tubing + 2-stroke oil works IF you restrict it enough. Otherwise it will go into your carbs, tested that setup today. Didn't let the oil into my carbs, I cut the engine before I let that happen After restricting the setup seemed to work alright, now to actually sync the carbs rather than just test the setup.

For adapters I used (I don't know who suggested this) the method of stretching the PVC tubing to achieve a taper. Worked pretty well. I think this is $10 well spent (I had to buy some iced tea for glass bottles. Mmmmm. )

I did run into one problem but I'm not sure how it relates... After testing the setup 3/4 float needle valves didn't close and I had gas running all over the place and flooding up to my air filters   

[Joel]

What does the method of stretched PVC tubing involve?  I don't remember seeing it in this thread.

[Sporkfly]

For stretching the clear PVC tubing heat it up with either a lighter (don't actually touch the tubing, keep it a good distance away) or a heat gun until it's hot, stretchy and gummy. Pull it until it is thin and let it cool and re-harden. Don't pull too hard or you'll just rip it, patience is your best friend for this. If you have a taper on each end of sections of about 2" you can 'screw' the taper into the vacuum adapter and then slide your hoses over the other end. This worked great for me and is cheap and easy if you're just using the cheapo manometers with plastic tubing... You're buying the tubing anyway, may as well buy some extra to make some adapters!

I will post pictures of mine when I get home.

[mystic_1]

Check out Donzon's tip in the Float bowl fuel level thread.  He describes using the "stretch the tubing to taper it" technique for spot-checking the float level.  Nice pics, too.

mystic_1

[Sporkfly]

Check out Donzon's tip in the Float bowl fuel level thread.  He describes using the "stretch the tubing to taper it" technique for spot-checking the float level.  Nice pics, too.

mystic_1

That's the one! Yeah, I used that method to make vacuum adapters rather than checking float bowl levels, it worked like a charm.