Topic: Who went to 'college'?

[matchanu]

Happiness is not in the amount of money you make in your job.

You will not find gratification in making more money. The majority of people live about 5-10% above their means, regardless of the amount of money you bring in.

Here's the catch, if you get a job that brings in a considererable amount of income, but is mind numbingly boring, it is much more difficult to go back to making less but being happier. I call this the "Golden Handcuffs". Add a wife and kids and your life just became complicated.

The best advice I can give you is find a focus and go for it. Do NOT waste you time and money going to school without a goal in mind and some knowledge on how to obtain it.

Doing manual labor seems like it sucks, taking #$%* from your boss seems like it's ass.

Try sitting behind a desk everyday, writting reports, and being the boss. You'll wish everyday that you were back in the trenches. There is good reason white collar jobs pay what they do.

I spend 13 years in the military, all of it in Naval Special Warfare. I got to see the world and employ "foreign policy" in bad guy land on a few occasions. I've seen the best and worst. It was an education no college would ever be able to provide, no matter how much money you poured into it. The military is not for everyone, it's long hours, you are held responsible for your duties and actions, the pay is #$%*, and your freedoms are largely revoked. That being said, it is the best experience and education I could have ever had. Nothing else has ever come close in comparison to the efficency, responsiblity and experiences. Don't discount this as an option, it can set you up for life.

I just about didn't make it through HS, but in just about every military class I took, I made honour man. I had no interest in Calculus, Trig, or Algerbra in HS, in the military, there was a direct reason and purpose to it (charge calculations, angle shooting, etc..) so I excelled in it.

I later tried to go to college, but quickly lost interest in it. There simply was no application to what I was studying, a complete waste of time and money.

Find your dream, what really makes you happy, and drive twords that. Find out what it would take to do what you want most. Research your goals.

If I knew then what I know now, my life would be a bit different, (not much, just a bit).


BTW, don't be afraid to move, leave you hometown, or take a chance. You are young, it is good to change your perspective.

[Rhonda750F]

In hindsight I guess it helped, but I think even a good 2 year degree and some ambition could get you decent pay without all those differential equations, fourier transforms, and other crap I've never used and forgotten.

How else are you supposed to relate position velocity and acceleration??? (or voltage current and resistance for you electrical nerds)

When they gave me an application for calc It all clicked, I had that moment of clarity.  In a regular math class they just give you numbers that don't mean any thing all plug and chug.  Once there is a reason, the wrath of the math becomes apparent. 

[putnaja1]

...
But once in a while you'll find a genuinely good teacher and they may actually inspire and motivate.  But other than that it's solely on you.
...

Now that was a good statement from Paul Z!

In all my pissing and moaning about college and my view of it, I had forgotten about that one very significant thing!  Every now and then you do find teachers that inspire you- I've found them in both middle and high school, and also in college, and they do leave a lasting positive impression.  In some cases- it's stuff like this that will help you decide what you want to do with your life..  In the same way, I've also had mentors in jobs I worked in as well, and those folks left good lasting impressions too..

Whatever you do, it's easier to go to college when you're young, before you have kids/wife/obligations/mortgage/career/etc.  But, for me, when I was young, it was much harder to focus enough to be successful in college..  :-)

[Uncle Ernie]

"Education" comes in many forms.  Professors look out on a sea of kids who don't want to be there, and often stash their skateboard behind their seat and fall asleep on the desk top.  Sit in front and pump that prof with questions and he'll love you and will give you so much info you probably won't have to read the textbook.  Teachers are starved for interest in what they do. Show some interest, and you'll be repaid handsomely. There's an old addage that is still true; you get out of it what you put into it.
Because of my education that I've gotten in school and on the street, I'm able to empathize/understand -or at least be willing to consider their beliefs- with other cultures, races, and personality types.  I got curious about what it might be like to live day-to-day in the 16th Century.  Because I got a little education in the use of various musical instruments and where music comes from, I love black gospel, blues, classical music and opera, bagpipe marches (and did you know that they were originally used as a weapon, much like firecrackers for the Chinese?), and polka.  This helps to appreciate a virtuoso blues guitarist AND a cello player.
A little knowledge in technical things like painting and welding, combined with an eye for design helps to know the difference between a good body man/fabricator and a poseur.
Because of education, I developed a love for words and their origins.  Because of that, I developed a love of type, which lead to early manuscripts and illuminations, which tied into type and graphic design and life in the early centuries during the so-called Dark Ages, which brings us back to today and further developments in advertising. I never would have found "Archy and Mehetabel" without education.
Education helps to make me a more interesting person (I hope), because God knows, I'm not much to look at.  It also helps me focus on what I feel is important and realize that everybody here would starve on what I make yet I have always had everything I really wanted- including some kick-ass bikes and cars.
And yes, these things would be beneficial to cops, too.  I can personally testify to THAT.  
You can make anything happen.  You may THINK you know what you want to happen, but what you pray for is what will happen.  My thinking is that your prayers include your fears as well as your desires. Often times your heart and your brain aren't connected and that may cause some discomfort down the line.  
Education helps you make sense of thoughts, desires, dreams, prayers, fears, etc.  This is the big difference between man and dogs.  Unfortunately, a lot of humans don't seem to take advantage of that opportunity.  Just my opinion there.

May all your dreams come true.
Be careful what you wish for

[bgfootball67]

Well said Uncle Ernie!  Man it seems as if a bunch of you guys on here are down on education.  I am 32 with an undergrad degree and a graduate degree from large universities here in Ohio.  Do either of these pieces of paper make me smarter than anyone else in society?  NO!!  It just means I sat through the class and passed the homework, tests, projects and thesis.  I think it helped shape who I am and how I view life.  I do agree that educations come in variety of fashions, a lot of times though employers look for a degree. 

The way I look at an education today, is you have to have some type of training past high school or you are going to bust your rear for the rest of your life.  I look at my buddies that did not go to any schooling or trade school and they are killing themselves to make ends meet.  Those who got degrees or went to a trade school or apprenticeship program are doing much better.  Just my 2 cents. 

Any way you look at this you get an education or training to get a job.  At the end of the day a job is just to pay the bills and sustain your style of life, it does not define who you are or how you live you life!  Those are choices you make!   

[Dusthawk]

This is a great post, a lot of great information to digest. I went to a certificated tech program at my local community college and am now employed in a career that has very little relation to what I learned. It parallels my training, but not really applicable. I have had several different career lines since college and have enjoyed each job I had for differing reasons.

I am 36, almost 37, and learned something when I was 35 I wish I had learned much earlier in life. Retirement planning is essential. Even if you get a great job with a 401(k) and profit sharing, etc., seriously consider opening a Roth IRA account. As young as you are, you can have a nice nestegg saved up by the time you are ready to retire. And keep in mind that reitirement age has increased, so you are looking at 45 or more years before retiring unless you have some goood savings.

Shop around for an established financial institution who offers IRA accounts. Some, such as H&R Block, who I worked for for a season and learned this lesson, offer IRA accounts for as little as $300 per year. Current tax law allows you to deposit up to $3500 per year into an IRA. Do some simple math, $3500 per year for 40 years is $140,000, and that is not including interest. I don't remember what the interest rates are whoever you talk to can show you the right numbers.

Another great financial planner that is stable is a money market account. They usually offer between 5 and 6% interest per annum. Figure on depositing $2000 per year at 5% interest, and after only 10 years you already have $26,413.57. After 40 years you would have a very nice savings indeed. If you delay by even 5 years, you risk tens of thousands in savings.

On a slightly different topic, my Dad once told me something I'll never forget. Here you have a man who earns $10,000 per year and is barely making ends meet. Take that same man and give him a job making $100,000 per year and he will still only just make ends meet. We all live just on the edge of our means.

Hope this helps.

Peace and long rides,

Jeff

[Rushoid]

A lot of big posts here. I'll admit to not reading all of them in depth, but skimmed them over.

You sound a bit like me when I was your age. I'm 37 with a wife and 3 kids. I've been working at the same company for 13 years. I started here as a Service Tech and "graduated" to the Service Manager position about 6 years ago. When I first got out of high school, I enlisted in the Navy, working on aircraft. I got out and thought I'd settled down enough to try going to college. I also held a full-time job and a part-time job. I was too wrapped up in making money and hanging with friends that my school work suffered.

 Fast forward to 2000: I started going to school over the internet. I took several courses from the state technical school and loved it! I could work at my own pace, didn't have to sit in a classroom, etc. Of course, the more hands-on classes (welding, etc.) you'll have to go, but I've taken computer classes and math and english classes online and I've gotten straight A's! I'm not going right now due to financial situation, but plan to get a degree in "Industrial Technology" soon. Internet schooling might be something for you to look into.

As others have said, years will click by before you know it and you'll probably never have the time to go once you start a family.

I've started looking for a new job recently. Almost all of the jobs I'm interested in (technical jobs) prefer a degree of some sort. I can do the jobs, so I apply anyway, but haven't heard anything yet. Anyway, if you decide not to pursue a degree, at least learn a skill, and learn it well.

Good luck to you!

[Rocking-M]

OK, now for a surprise. I graduated college, NCSU 1980, Political Science/ Criminal Justice.
Never worked a day in the Criminal Justice field. Political Science has paid off in my own
personal studies which, even though, have tended to elevate my blood pressure (given what I found
out I wasn't taught and how far we are politically from what was intended here).

Do I think it was worth it almost 30 years later. Yea, taught me how to conduct my
own studies, but I could have probably figured it out on my own anyway.
Does it help in my past and current careers. Probably not now, in the past maybe
for some of the jobs where I worked for someone else.

If you are motivated enough to start your own business, whatever it may be,
I'd say you be better off getting the training you need for that business and
going for it. Nuttin to it but to do it! I know plenty of mechanics/bike shops/painters restorers that make
a good living, maybe not by NYC standards, but who wants to live in NYC?
You'll have to decide which standard of living best suits you.

[BobbyR]

Nuttin to it but to do it! I know plenty of mechanics/bike shops/painters restorers that make
a good living, maybe not by NYC standards, but who wants to live in NYC?
You'll have to decide which standard of living best suits you.

Trick is to make NYC money and not live in NYC. 

[sparty]

I am 35 and have been in school for 30 years.  I have two undergrad degrees, a masters, and I am working on my PhD ( I should finish it in another year thank God!).  For me, education is my life.  I teach and coach.  There is value in education, but it doesn't have to be a "college" education that you receive.

My wife, a super intelligent woman, has her Juris Doctorate and she just became a Judge - her life goal.  But we both agree that sometimes, having a higher degree can be a burden.  To justify the cost of college and law school you really have to make some big $$$.  When your student loans are $1000 a month, you ask yourself, why the hell did I do this to myself?  Then you realize that going to work each day is fun and interesting because you put in the time to set yourself up for career that you enjoy.  If you ever complain about your job and the work that you do and the people that you work with, remember that you can change all of that.  Life is too short to “settle” for something less!

However, if your only reason for going to college is to "make more money" it may let you down.  I have three friends who are millionaires and none of them went to college, they started small business which they managed well, put in the long hours, sacrifice free time and today, they enjoy the fruits of their efforts.

Basically, it all comes down to initiative.  Do you have it?  Will you do what it takes to become the person you want to be? 

Sparty

[super pasty white guy]

Lots of good advice and differing opinions.  Just so you know where I'm coming from, my parents were both educators, and my grandparents too.  Not going to college never really seriously crossed my mind.  I got a BS in pharmacy worked for a decade, and am now starting on a master's degree.  I'm not a GHOF, I'm just pushing 40 and only a little grey.

My thoughts are that a degree will often give you more flexibility and more options.  You can certainly do very well without going to college and you can just as certainly do very poorly with one. 

Hate the university?  I would have crashed and burned in one.  I went (first) to a small community college where the professors taught their own classes, and knew you by name. They'd ask why you did poorly on a exam and ask you to stop by their office for help.  I think my biggest classes had maybe 100 people in them, most were 10-30 or so.  It was also a hell of a lot cheaper-  I managed to finish 5 years there without any loans by working part time.

It sounds like you're doing what you need to-  think about what you want and what you'll need to get it.  If it's what you want, slogging through 4 years of college might suck, but it'll be worth it.  Doing it when you're younger will certainly be easier than realizing you need to do it when you have a wife and kids. 

Best of luck in whatever you choose.

[ic455]

Tell me how knowledge of every eastern religion is supposed to make me a better police officer

Maybe knowing about other religions makes less prejudiced police officers? Talking specifically about police officers, the worst thing you can have is an uneducated one.

There is no such thing as "enough education". As Uncle Ernie very well put, "training" and "education" are very different things. You can be the best on your trade and still be an uneducated person, with no critical thinking, no specific area of interest besides having fun in whatever the mood is, well, you get the point.

Everyone here could tell the story of his life and you can read stories of personal success or failure. I have discovered that no matter how much you enjoy your hobby; when you make it your way of living it will not be fun anymore because your income depends on it and you will be forced to do things you don't feel like doing when you don't feel like doing. Choose a career that not many people choose, that have a reasonable income and that is moderately entertaining and rewarding, and leave the hobbies for your leisure time.


Raul

Can't say about prejudice, but I can say that if someone beats his wife or kills a man or steals, it's a crime here in the US no matter their religion.  When I speak of understanding the religions I mean knowing how the religion started and details about it from 500 years ago which have no bearing on whether or not someone commited a crime.  If you don't know what religion someone is just by looking at them (and 90% of the time you don't) how can you be prejudiced?  I love to read and write poetry, but I just can't see the relevance of that in police work or engineering or anything but writing.

[ic455]

I think for people that went to college, it means everything..  I have friends and family that have advanced degrees, and according to them, if you don't have equivalent education, you've got nothing to contribute to society.  I've also heard some employers say that they won't even look at someone's resume if they haven't finished college.

I also know plenty of people that have no college experience, and a lot of these people are doing (or have done) extremely well.  I have a friend with no college experience that started his own t-shirt screening business.  That business has now put two kids through college(!), paid off two houses, and buys him (and also his wife) a new luxury car every other year.

To me, I just can't buy the fact that someone isn't intelligent or respectable if they haven't been brainwashed by some college professors (who in my experience can be biased both academically and politically.)  Anyone can go to the library and read a bunch of books on history, economics, math, science, etc.  You don't have to be officially enrolled in college to use your mind. 

I personally still have 20 credits to go, and I'm gonna finish in a year or two I hope (much harder to finish once you have kids and a career!), just so I can stay on top of the peeing match, and because I've earned so many credits so far it would be a shame to not finish..  But, once I get the degree, it's not gonna do anything for me career-wise that I haven't already gotten for myself by using my head.

amen!

[ic455]

just as an aside, I have a cousin who has 2 bachelor's degrees and 3 masters, can't remember in what fields.  He works at a place called Jakel which makes small electric motors for hairdryers, fans, etc.  I think he finally made it up to 8.00/hr.

Here's a better one: a few years ago when I was looking for work, I checked into a groundskeeper/maintenance position at the university here in town (MSU) the description included these tasks:  general maintenance, trash removal, cutting the grass/trimming the shrubbery, keeping the parking lots clean, fixing things, etc.  The pay was 7.80/hr or thereabouts.  The job requirements included a Bachelor's degree.  A bachelor's degree to take out the trash and mow the grass.  A degree is also required to be a police officer here where I live.  However, a degree is NOT required to be police officer in Lawrenceville, GA (Gwinnett county). 

A hobby can be a career, just look at Jesse James, the guys at OCC, Barry White (no, not the singer). 

not trying to bash education at all, guys, I just think that College is a bit overrated , may be biased in that opinion since I've had some college folks (grads or not) attempt to talk down to me because I don't have a degree.  In the words of my redneck brethren, "that dog won't hunt".  I have furthered my education on my own, and am currently learning German.  My GED test scores were in in the 96th percentile, I think it was, and my ACT scores were also in the 90th percentile or thereabouts, which I don't think means squat. 
Point is, Just because someone doesn't have a degree doesn't make them stupid or less "well-rounded".

[6pkrunner]

I'm 56 and did the B.Sc. in math during the university years. Didn't want to ride a desk right out of school so drove a truck for a few years. As a lark took an interview for a hydrographer and got it.  That was 1979. Been there ever since and am sent to class at least 2 months of every year. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

[Uncle Ernie]

Mr ic455, you are right on about not underestimating the local talent without degrees.  My eyes have been opened wide since I moved to the South.  many people I suspect are at a genous level by measurements are involved with basic labour.  The artistry and skill level in many areas is pretty amazing.  One guy here built his own smaller-sized Stone Henge just to try and figure out how the real one was built.  Granite rocks the size of cars are sticking up out of the ground -he won't tell anyone how he did it.  You can tell by the undisturbed bushes and trees he didn't do it with a tractor or skip-loader.

[ic455]

Thanks, UE!  While I do agree that those who have the "well-rounded" education have quite a bit to contribute to our world, I do not believe that those without said education have any less to contribute. 

Stonehenge, you say?  Maybe he's calling the aliens! (of course you know that aliens only abduct us Southerners) 

[Rocking-M]

Hey IC, was that you I saw on that ship that night. 
You know the one with funny green beings that spoke pig latin.

[SClay115]

I can't even begin to thank you guys enough for all the information now presented in front of me. I'm amazed this post has generated as much interest as it has. And I want to say, I read every single post up here, start to finish, and I sincerely appreciate people taking the time to really divulge the information that they did.

And it seems I do have a bit more time to 'figure it all out'. Now is the best time to deal with education, but as someone had said, there is no point in wasting time and money if I would just be wandering aimlessly through classes with no real goal in mind. I think I'm going to start with the welding certificates, just to get myself back into the school mindset, and see what develops from there. I had considered going back for Engineering, which I didn't mention, was what I went to school for the first time. But the University life really deters me from doing so.

Again, I really appreciate it guys, thanks again. Keep the responses coming if anyone has anything else to add.

Steve

P.S. Ernie, my spelling isn't that bad...

[seaweb11]

Only did 1 year of college. It wasn't my thing. Banged around in the bar and restaurant business for years until I realized that wasn't going any where.  Best thing I did was get into sales. I got my 1st sales job by offering to work a week for free. They hired me at the end of the week. Poor pay, no commissions. 

Next sales job was 100% commission. Scared the crap out of me to have no guarantee of income, but I came to the conclusion that you could make what ever you wanted. Work more sales calls make more money, sleep in make less. Ended up the sales mgr my second year. He who sells the most gets the job!

Went out on my own at 25 yrs old.  Did 10 years with my own stores. They own you, you don't own them!
Found the internet in 1994 and spent 6 months in the library going through every yellow page book in North America and another 12 months learning how to code html. Built an online Directory for the Industry I was in and have been basicaly retired for the past 12 years. I do have to walk to the mail box every day.   I could make more money if I worked harder, but as someone said earlier about living on the $$edge.
My take on sales is you make as much as you need.

Please don't take this the wrong way guys........ but
I can't imagine having a job where someone gives me the same amount of money at the end of every 14 days.

If you are a a good salesman you will always have a job opportunity somewhere, and you will make as much as you need.

One of my 1st sales mentors once said to me "if you can go out to the bar and get laid, you can sell".

So if you are still banging around, you might see if it's something you click with.

[Klark Kent]

you can go to MIT for free from home.  minus the professors.  If you want to learn about engineering or just look at the coursework check out the MIT OpenCourseWare.  you get no degree but if you are able to learn the material you will have knowledge you can apply in the workplace- which does a lot for you too.  people who pay to go to MIT where actually complaing when they started this so it must be worth chekcing out.
good luck in whatever you do
-KK

[grumburg]

I went to college, but I ain't learned nuthin.

[ic455]

Hey IC, was that you I saw on that ship that night. 
You know the one with funny green beings that spoke pig latin.

es-yay it as-way, ont-day ell-tay the overnment-gay!

ive-lay onglay and rosper-pay!

[DammitDan]

I went to college.  Just finished after 5 years of classes (6 years if you count the year I realized that school wasn't going anywhere and I worked minimum wage in an ice cream place).

I made the realization during that year I took off that I don't want to be without that piece of paper.  Minimum wage sucks.  A lot.  But it took that experience of living on my own making just under $11,000 a year to make me serious about school.  I changed universities and got into the Recording Industry program at Middle TN State.  I made the Dean's list 4 out of 6 semesters there with a 3.1 GPA and 140 credit hours, after coming out of University of TN Knoxville (Go Vols!) with D's and F's, a 2.2 GPA and 60 credit hours.  I did the business classes and history classes and chemistry classes and calculus classes, and none of them caught my attention.  The recording industry classes were what really pushed my buttons (pun?).  School sucks sometimes, but when you find something that really interests you it gets you motivated.

A lot of people go to college with the idea of "job training".  And a lot of people come out of it being disappointed.  But even with a college education you still have to start at the bottom of the pile.  I feel like a more well-rounded individual because of my education.  I didn't go to school to learn how to do something, I went to learn more about myself and my surroundings.  I think that's why so many people think Universities are these evil liberal places; because they teach people how to open up their minds and think for themselves.

Besides, that piece of paper is more than a degree, it's also proof that you can finish a long term commitment.  That's why so many employers require at least a bachelor's degree, regardless of what the degree is actually in.

[BobbyR]

Well put Dan, they do want to see you have the ability to finish something.